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Post by somedaycamesuddenly on Jan 30, 2017 22:21:02 GMT -5
I'm not too concerned with the intermission experience but I am hoping for better results on the court action. Why can't we recruit better athletes, the main reason is the PL. just curious. Why are other PL teams able to recruit better athletes? They aren't mutually exclusive. Other teams in the Patriot League can be recruiting better athletes (Bucknell, Lehigh, BU, AU) and the PL can also still be hurting Holy Cross's recruiting. The playing field internally (in the Patriot League) is even, the playing field externally (in D1) isn't.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 30, 2017 22:24:01 GMT -5
The PL for basketball was a godsend for Bucknell....it fit their profile perfectly for basketball.....it has been largely a death-knell for Holy Cross....good for Bucknell, but it (PL Basketball) really doesn't work for Holy Cross for a host of reasons. We need a new home.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 30, 2017 23:17:49 GMT -5
No denying that ACTP....it just seems a tab embarrassing when the PL takes the blame for our woes, when we are aways from being the dominant program in it (now that the playing field has been leveled). The decline of HC hoops can be attributed to 5 things Dave: 1) the creation of the BE 2) HC declining a BE invite 3) RW leaving for L-ville 4) all PL schools offering schollies 5) 2 straight poor coaching hires by DR. It takes a looooong time to bounce back from all this. I agree, but don't think it should take quite that many o's in long. Nonetheless, perhaps hiring someone in his mid-60s who doesn't like recruiting, and has an extremely rigid system was not the wisest decision given the state of the program, don't ya think?
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 30, 2017 23:33:17 GMT -5
Last I checked that "someone in his mid-60's" is the coach of the league champions, and won the championship with a roster of players who didn't fit his system,but did just fine within his 180 degree opposite "rigid system"
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 31, 2017 0:14:20 GMT -5
Last I checked that "someone in his mid-60's" is the coach of the league champions, and won the championship with a roster of players who didn't fit his system,but did just fine within his 180 degree opposite "rigid system" I'm not sure if you're being serious by continuing to use those four games as your sole evidence or not, but in case you're not paying attention, those performances look like more and more of an anomoly with each passing horrible performance against lousy competition. All evidence points to that being more about catching magic in a bottle with a 1-3-1 that nobody was expecting and a defender (Green) who could single handily make up for its flaws and holes.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 31, 2017 5:39:29 GMT -5
I don't know how it happens....but we should be like Fordham, Georgetown or Villanova athletically.....football in FCS, basketball at a much higher level. None of those three schools play ice hockey, which at HC's wished-for membership in HE, would cost as much as football, and more than current M/W basketball. Those three schools are not traditionally liberal arts, and have at least 2+x HC's enrollment. Name a school that HC should emulate (match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation) with respect to conference level for football, M/W basketball, and M/W ice hockey?
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Post by joe on Jan 31, 2017 6:34:49 GMT -5
There are no exact apples to apples comparison for HC to emulate. That's where intelligence, creativity, and ambition come in. A broad stroke comparison would include the schools 87 listed and that's really as close as you'll get in D1 in terms of a basic model that might work. There are people out there who would gladly get paid money to figure out how to do this. If hockey is truly a burden dump it. Seems like HC is dropping the ball there anyway.
PL is basketball is bad for HC. Whether we "play out of it" or not it's a dead end league. You will never see a school achieve anything more than an occasional first round NCAA win, and only when the stars and wind are aligned perfectly. There's a million reasons why HC "should" stay in the PL and why it "can't" exit but that doesn't change the fact that the league is a bore. Investing time and money in the PL is putting lipstick on a pig.
Crusadexit!
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Post by ncaam on Jan 31, 2017 7:14:30 GMT -5
If a 14 seed I see Bucknell having a good chance to win a first round game this year.
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Post by ncaam on Jan 31, 2017 7:18:18 GMT -5
Our tptb prefer high participation rates at the lowest cost possible.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 31, 2017 7:54:17 GMT -5
When selecting a school to emulate, these are the schools playing Div I football, Div II football, and M/W ice hockey, from which to choose. There are 420 institutions playing Div I and Div II football.
Div I football schools whose basketball conference affiliation would not be a significant upgrade from the PL, and Colgate. Brown Colgate Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Princeton Robert Morris Sacred Heart Univ of Maine Univ New Hampshire Univ of North Dakota Yale
Division II football schools Bemidji St MN Mercyhurst Minnesota Mankato Saint Anselm's Saint Cloud State Univ of Minnesota Duluth
which leaves Boston College Ohio State Penn State UConn University of Minnesota Univ of Wisconsin
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Post by matunuck on Jan 31, 2017 9:29:16 GMT -5
Let's not start blaming hockey for our athletic woes or inability to jump conferences. Highly doubt TPTB are saying, "Boy, we'd jump conferences in a heart beat if it not for our damn hockey program." The poor athletic decisions we've made over the many years have nothing to do with hockey. On the bright side, it is very likely our women's hockey team will be joining Hockey East. Good for them --
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 31, 2017 9:35:12 GMT -5
Bucknell, with its NCAA wins and basketball venue, is 10x more the candidate for a league upgrade-- if there was an opportunity-- than HC. Bucknell's most-recent mentions on SportsCenter talk about the team that upset such-and-such in the NCAA tournament. HC's were either the PIG miracle run, or the team that canned a head coach after a single season and acted big-time.
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Post by ncaam on Jan 31, 2017 9:46:18 GMT -5
Here's an idea for adnp/pp. In 2004 NCAA began having an ncaa bowling championship. SFA won it last year. A peer school of ours, SHU, is 15th in the nation right now. Let's join. We build a four lane complex in the renovated field house with a beer concession (21+). M/W. No scholarships. We get 10 bowlers added to our D1 participation rate. What can bowling shirts cost? Do we get the $30k(?) minor sport bump from the NCAA? Fr. Boroughs could role the first ball (bumpers of course). When bball is playing at Luth disinterested students can bowl. Keglers rejoice!
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Post by ncaam on Jan 31, 2017 9:50:54 GMT -5
Here's an idea for adnp/pp. In 2004 NCAA began having an ncaa bowling championship. SFA won it last year. A peer school of ours, SHU, is 15th in the nation right now. Let's join. We build a four lane complex in the renovated field house with a beer concession (21+). M/W. No scholarships. We get 10 bowlers added to our D1 participation rate. What can bowling shirts cost? Do we get the $30k(?) minor sport bump from the NCAA? Brunswick and Old Milwaukee are $$$ sponsors. Fr. Boroughs could role the first ball (bumpers of course). When bball is playing at Luth disinterested students can bowl. Keglers rejoice!
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Post by timholycross on Jan 31, 2017 9:53:07 GMT -5
Bucknell, with its NCAA wins and basketball venue, is 10x more the candidate for a league upgrade-- if there was an opportunity-- than HC. Bucknell's most-recent mentions on SportsCenter talk about the team that upset such-and-such in the NCAA tournament. HC's were either the PIG miracle run, or the team that canned a head coach after a single season and acted big-time. Not really - when you start getting into leagues where there is a tv contract, markets start to come into play...and HC is in Boston's, God knows which one Lewisburg is in, but it's very small, not Philly or even Pittsburgh.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Jan 31, 2017 9:58:29 GMT -5
Bucknell, with its NCAA wins and basketball venue, is 10x more the candidate for a league upgrade-- if there was an opportunity-- than HC. Bucknell's most-recent mentions on SportsCenter talk about the team that upset such-and-such in the NCAA tournament. HC's were either the PIG miracle run, or the team that canned a head coach after a single season and acted big-time. Nope. All about TV and media markets.
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 31, 2017 10:03:52 GMT -5
ok, I've got it ! the school we should emulate is our PL brother 'Colgate' ! they're clearly the closest profile to ours in terms of enrollment, number of sports etc.. no one is close. They have generally outperformed us across the board in the last decade. (I am in the camp of last year's basketball championship as a bit of a fluke). We should have many advantages over Colgate in terms of location and athletic history, but they have much better indoor facilities than us.
That leads me to believe that our new facilities will attract much better student-athletes to "succeed" in the PL. That better happen or there would have to be some serious soul-searching about what the heck is wrong on Mt. St. James
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 31, 2017 10:27:13 GMT -5
Bucknell, with its NCAA wins and basketball venue, is 10x more the candidate for a league upgrade-- if there was an opportunity-- than HC. Bucknell's most-recent mentions on SportsCenter talk about the team that upset such-and-such in the NCAA tournament. HC's were either the PIG miracle run, or the team that canned a head coach after a single season and acted big-time. Nope. All about TV and media markets. All that TV and media coverage that HC gets now from Boston outlets?... that would automagically change if we joined, say the BE?
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Post by hcgrad94 on Jan 31, 2017 10:47:41 GMT -5
Nope. All about TV and media markets. All that TV and media coverage that HC gets now from Boston outlets?... that would automagically change if we joined, say the BE? Geographic location and potential eyeballs. Worcester a little funky given proximity of Boston but but slightly better media market than Shamokin Dam.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 31, 2017 12:18:24 GMT -5
Different era and all that I know.....but people watched/knew Holy Cross from games being on Channel 27 in Eastern Massachusetts. It was basically HC with Mr E and the Cooz on Channel 27 and PC with Chris Clark on Channel 10 back then. (Pre-ESPN)
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 31, 2017 12:21:42 GMT -5
Different era and all that I know.....but people watched/knew Holy Cross from games being on Channel 27 in Eastern Massachusetts. It was basically HC with Mr E and the Cooz on Channel 27 and PC with Chris Clark on Channel 10 back then. (Pre-ESPN) Seems like you've answered your own question, as you often do.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 31, 2017 12:24:41 GMT -5
I like to keep myself busy.....point being, HC "lost that connection" to the average Joe in Wisstah, Framingham, Attleboro, New Bedford et al when we deemphasized athletics.
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Post by beaven302 on Jan 31, 2017 13:01:03 GMT -5
Bucknell, with its NCAA wins and basketball venue, is 10x more the candidate for a league upgrade-- if there was an opportunity-- than HC. Bucknell's most-recent mentions on SportsCenter talk about the team that upset such-and-such in the NCAA tournament. HC's were either the PIG miracle run, or the team that canned a head coach after a single season and acted big-time. Not really - when you start getting into leagues where there is a tv contract, markets start to come into play...and HC is in Boston's, God knows which one Lewisburg is in, but it's very small, not Philly or even Pittsburgh. Lewisburg gets ABC, CBS, and FOX from Scranton, and NBC from Wilkes-Barre. As for the school itself, Bucknell is essentially a self-contained unit. When my son went there from 1997-2001, the term was the "Bucknell bubble."
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 31, 2017 18:32:39 GMT -5
Agree that hockey is not a contributing factor in the current state of football, and M/W basketball. ________________________________ My underlying point is that posters are yearning for / promoting / calling for some combination of the following conference alignments: football, CAA or PL; basketball and other sports the A-10, even the NBE; ice hockey, HE.
No member school of the A-10, CAA, NBE, or the PL, attempts such a combination. The likely result if HC were ever allowed by the inviting conferences to pursue such a combination would be to fail miserably, from a competition standpoint, in all five: football, M/W basketball, and M/W ice hockey.
Of the six institutions that do play FBS football, and in high level basketball and ice hockey conferences, the UConn, BC, and Univ of Minnesota athletic programs lose money. University of Wisconsin breaks even, and The OSU and PSU run at a profit; OSU about $35 million a year.
Ice hockey expenses at OSU are $4.0M. PSU $5.2M, Minnesota $7.2M, and the Badgers, $6.6M. All four schools lose money on ice hockey, PSU's loss is the only one less than $1 million, and PSU is helped by a large hockey endowment. All four make money on football and M/W basketball.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 31, 2017 18:44:13 GMT -5
I say let's join the NBA for hoops.......then we don't have to worry about the AI ever again.
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