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Post by hc87 on Apr 4, 2017 21:11:22 GMT -5
HC not the school it once was......much of that is due to "athletic invisibility".....you PL cheerleadahs can find your pom-poms ovah here
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Post by matunuck on Apr 5, 2017 8:29:05 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Apr 6, 2017 19:43:15 GMT -5
While I have no doubt of the HC's admissions office's truthiness, it may very well be that the unquantifiable 'very important' designation for prospective student interviews is mostly for public consumption or to account for applicant pool/admitted student pool academic stats. Factoring 'class rank' as merely 'important' on top of our 'test score optional' policy certainly sends a consistent message as to the importance of academic achievement.
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Post by ncaam on Apr 10, 2017 5:47:47 GMT -5
"Free" college tuition in NYS?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 10, 2017 9:30:06 GMT -5
"Free" college tuition in NYS? This will have the effect of reducing the applicant pool for private colleges. _____________________ What may have happened to Ann and HC is something like this, which was alluded to by the re-accreditation committee. The values below are illustrative. A. HC strives to admit and enroll 40 percent of its entering class from Catholic high schools. B. In 1985, there were 25,000 graduates from Catholic high schools in New England, NY, and NJ. C. Of the 25,000, 10 percent had V/M SAT scores.>1400, or 2,500 students. HC enrolled 4 percent of the 2,500, or 100 students. D. In 2015, there were 17,000 graduates from Catholic high schools in these eight states. E. Of the 17,000, 10 percent had V/M SAT scores >1400, or 1,700 students. HC enrolled 4 percent of the 1,700, or 68 students. F. HC persists in trying to enroll 40 percent of the class from this set of Catholic high schools. G. To meet the 40 percent target, HC now accepts and enrolls a larger percentage of students with SAT scores that are below 1200 than it did 30 years ago. .
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Post by ncaam on Apr 10, 2017 9:41:05 GMT -5
If NYS goes tuition free are Canisius, Niagara and St Bonaventure doomed?
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Post by Chu Chu on Apr 10, 2017 10:26:48 GMT -5
"Free" college tuition in NYS? I have not read any specifics about this proposal, but if it functions as the Regent's Scholarships did when I did grad work in NY, then they might allow an equivalent dollar amount to go to any NYS school, public or private. That reduces the load on the public schools, opens up choice and builds support from the private institutions and their supporters. It also sets up a nice competition for the state schools with the private colleges, and leaves choice in the hands of the citizen.
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Post by lou on Apr 10, 2017 11:15:55 GMT -5
This is part of the proposal...
A new grant program will be created for students who attend private colleges in the state, with a maximum award of $3,000. However, private colleges would be required to match the grants, and to freeze tuition for the duration of a student's grant.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 10, 2017 15:49:27 GMT -5
Essentially, NYS will foot the tuition bill (about 8.5K) for a qualifying NYS resident to a SUNY/CUNY school. This fall the qualifying max income is 100K...it scales up to 125K over the next three years. Since many students are already receiving financial and/or merit aid towards tuition this is not a gigantic new NYS cost.
This may or may not increase the selectivity of some of the more selective (Baruch, Hunter, Stony Brook, Binghamton, etc.) of the SUNYs/CUNYs.
Since it is not a huge sum of money I don't know what, if any, impact it will have on private competitor colleges.
(Essentially room, board, tuition, and fees is about 23K at the SUNY centers. One of the strings attached to this offer is that the student must remain in the state post graduation for as many years as they received the tuition aid))
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Post by hcgrad94 on Apr 10, 2017 18:15:11 GMT -5
If NYS goes tuition free are Canisius, Niagara and St Bonaventure doomed? And what would that then do to our MBB planned December road trip??
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Post by ncaam on Apr 10, 2017 18:38:53 GMT -5
True, so we're stuck with Marist, unh, Maine and Q
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Post by Chu Chu on Apr 13, 2017 10:34:56 GMT -5
This is part of the proposal... A new grant program will be created for students who attend private colleges in the state, with a maximum award of $3,000. However, private colleges would be required to match the grants, and to freeze tuition for the duration of a student's grant. Very interesting. I think that this is a very smart addition to the program. The private institutions contribute a lot to the state. Will this award also require the graduate to stay and work in the state? Full disclosure: I had a full NYS scholarship for all 4 years of medical school, and then I left the state for residency and never returned. Many others did, as well. As partial atonement, true to my Catholic guilt, our family has established a scholarship at my medical school.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 13, 2017 19:59:29 GMT -5
Can we drop a MOAB on this debate?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 19, 2017 8:58:46 GMT -5
from Fr. B.
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Post by matunuck on May 19, 2017 9:17:08 GMT -5
So our app total dropped from last year. No hard data from Fr B. on the academic quality of said class?
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Post by purplehaze on May 19, 2017 9:19:31 GMT -5
with those numbers (and our high retention rate) the school is definitely creeping up toward an overall enrollment of 3000 +
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 19, 2017 10:23:09 GMT -5
So our app total dropped from last year. No hard data from Fr B. on the academic quality of said class? The application total dropped by 1 percent. The number of international students is close to the 5 percent (IIRC) target. The quoted para was the entirety of what Fr. B. wrote about admissions, Nate Pine's data indicate the difference between Worcester enrollment and total enrollment is about 200 students. It may be that HC anticipates more students will spend a year abroad, in New York, in DC. Otherwise, a new residence hall may be in the offing sooner rather than later. My assumption is that HC would build a new hall initially to be used as swing space for when the Easy St dorms are renovated.
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Post by hcpride on May 19, 2017 14:42:31 GMT -5
Now that the application total is public and students have been accepted, I wonder what the selection rate for acceptance is. Selectivity rate seems to be the number so many focus on.
Good to hear 'yield' (accepted students who wind up enrolling) was strong.
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Post by matunuck on May 23, 2017 9:34:35 GMT -5
Aside from the fact that HC never seems to release much quantifiable academic data on admitted classes, do hope with the higher yield that HC is attracting an ideologically diverse group of students. Group think isn't healthy.
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Post by hc811215 on May 24, 2017 18:31:14 GMT -5
For comparison sake, I decided to see if I could find the stats on the admitted class of 1981 (perhaps the finest class ever to graduate from HC ). The September 9, 1977 Crusader reported the following about the entering class. 640 students entered in the fall of 1977. 1400 students were accepted out of 3714 applicants. We accepted just under 38% of the applicants and yielded 46% of the accepted students. I do not know, but would imagine, that yields generally were higher then because applicants typically applied to only a handful of schools. 90% of the class was from New England or Mid-Atlantic states. 47% of the freshman class was from Massachusetts, 18% was from other states in New England, and another 25% were from the mid-atlantic. We only had students from 23 states and DC and two foreign countries (Germany and Switzerland -- I know one of them was really from Waterbury CT but his dad was transferred to Switzerland for two years). It was reported that the class had 33 minority students, 22 blacks (up 60% from prior year), 5 "orientals" and 6 Latinos. 59.7% graduated in top 10% of high school class, up 9% from previous class. We are more geographically and ethnically diverse today than we were back then and appear to be just as selective. We should stop beating ourselves up.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 25, 2017 5:38:56 GMT -5
hc81, thanks for the research. I particularly agree with this point: "We [HC] are more geographically and ethnically diverse today than we were back then"
But the larger question that some of continue to raise is how does HC currently compare with other institutions? A particular, and grating, case in point is that school in Chestnut Hill.
Class of 1981 Boston College 11,336 applications / 2,205 enrolled Average SAT 496 V / 538 M
Residence of enrolling freshmen MA 1,140 NY 254 CT 243 NJ 177 RI 69 FL 10 CA 4 ______________________________ Class of 2020 at Boston College 28956 applications / 2359 enrolled
SATs 25-75 range V 620-720 M 640-740
Residence of enrolling freshmen MA 513 NY 325 NJ 242 CA 173 CT 145 FL 90 RI 45
If there is no more than a modest difference between HC's classes of 1981 and 2020, there's one helluva difference between those two classes at BC.
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Post by hc811215 on May 26, 2017 14:53:50 GMT -5
hc81, thanks for the research. I particularly agree with this point: "We [HC] are more geographically and ethnically diverse today than we were back then" But the larger question that some of continue to raise is how does HC currently compare with other institutions? A particular, and grating, case in point is that school in Chestnut Hill. Class of 1981 Boston College11,336 applications / 2,205 enrolled Average SAT 496 V / 538 M Residence of enrolling freshmenMA 1,140 NY 254 CT 243 NJ 177 RI 69 FL 10 CA 4 ______________________________ Class of 2020 at Boston College28956 applications / 2359 enrolled SATs 25-75 range V 620-720 M 640-740 Residence of enrolling freshmenMA 513 NY 325 NJ 242 CA 173 CT 145 FL 90 RI 45 If there is no more than a modest difference between HC's classes of 1981 and 2020, there's one helluva difference between those two classes at BC. While BC is a real anomaly in that it has increased its national profile and academic competitiveness more significantly since the 1970s than almost any other university in the US, the point of my research was to point out that the good old days weren't all that good compared to our current classes. The class of 1991, entering in the fall of 1987 with all of our Gordie Lockbaum still had far fewer applications than this year's entering class had. There were only 4579 applications for the 635 entrants in the fall of '87. and the average SAT scores of the newly admitted class was a combined 1186 (573 verbal and 613 math). 54.4% of the class was in the top 10% of their HS class. I think our current students would stack up very well against students past and they continue to make us proud to be alums. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, just that I think some tend to inflate where we were and denigrate where we are.
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Post by hcpride on May 26, 2017 19:32:37 GMT -5
hc81, thanks for the research. I particularly agree with this point: "We [HC] are more geographically and ethnically diverse today than we were back then" But the larger question that some of continue to raise is how does HC currently compare with other institutions? A particular, and grating, case in point is that school in Chestnut Hill. Class of 1981 Boston College11,336 applications / 2,205 enrolled Average SAT 496 V / 538 M Residence of enrolling freshmenMA 1,140 NY 254 CT 243 NJ 177 RI 69 FL 10 CA 4 ______________________________ Class of 2020 at Boston College28956 applications / 2359 enrolled SATs 25-75 range V 620-720 M 640-740 Residence of enrolling freshmenMA 513 NY 325 NJ 242 CA 173 CT 145 FL 90 RI 45 If there is no more than a modest difference between HC's classes of 1981 and 2020, there's one helluva difference between those two classes at BC. While BC is a real anomaly in that it has increased its national profile and academic competitiveness more significantly since the 1970s than almost any other university in the US, the point of my research was to point out that the good old days weren't all that good compared to our current classes. The class of 1991, entering in the fall of 1987 with all of our Gordie Lockbaum still had far fewer applications than this year's entering class had. There were only 4579 applications for the 635 entrants in the fall of '87. and the average SAT scores of the newly admitted class was a combined 1186 (573 verbal and 613 math). 54.4% of the class was in the top 10% of their HS class. I think our current students would stack up very well against students past and they continue to make us proud to be alums. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, just that I think some tend to inflate where we were and denigrate where we are. As far as comparisons between total number of applicants to HC today and total number of applicants to HC 30 years ago, your earlier point that "applicants typically applied to only a handful of schools" is well taken. Further, the dramatic 'test score optional' applicant number boost was not in play 30 years ago (it is now). Not a valid comparison at all. Given the 'test score optional' gambit and its obscuring effect on certain statistics, one really cannot reliably compare applicant/admitted student SAT range then and now. I guess one can look at current statistical comparisons with traditional and newer competitor schools as PP did. In some categories and some comparisons with traditional and new competitor schools HC seems to be about where it was 30 years ago. In other categories and in some comparisons with traditional (BC, for example) and newer (VU, for example) competitor schools, HC may fall a bit short. As long as nobody takes it personally, I don't see the harm in an honest and informed appraisal and reappraisal. As we all know, things (including school reputations) change. As far as USNWR rankings are concerned, I believe we are a bit short of where we were 30 years ago. I have a dim memory of a bit of a panic when we first slipped below the top 25. As a matter of fact I read that again somewhere online and can't seem to locate it.
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Post by sader1970 on May 26, 2017 20:34:59 GMT -5
Is this what you are referencing? From our own HC website:
From the "Points of Pride:
College Excellence
No. 32 on U.S. News & World Report's list of best liberal arts colleges
A+ on Niche's list of 2017 Best Colleges in America
Most beautiful college in Massachusetts, according to Travel + Leisure
No. 1 on LendEdu's list of most beautiful college campus in Massachusetts
No. 2 on USA Today/College Factual's list of best Roman Catholic colleges
No. 5 on USA Today/College Factual's list of best colleges in Massachusetts
No. 19 on USA Today/College Factual's list of best colleges in the nation
No. 8 on Best Choice Schools’ list of beautiful urban college campuses
No. 12 on the list of best value liberal arts colleges in the country, according to PayScale’s 2017 College Return on Investment Report
No. 15 on Kiplinger’s list of liberal arts colleges that combine outstanding academics with affordable cost
No. 16 on Money Magazine's list of best liberal arts colleges
No. 20 on Business Insider's list of best liberal arts colleges
No. 25 on Forbes' list of top liberal arts colleges
No. 26 on Washington Monthly's list of top liberal arts colleges
No. 29 on Times Higher Education's list of best liberal arts colleges
Included on the Princeton Review's list of best colleges and "Colleges That Pay You Back"
Among the "best and most interesting colleges" in the Fiske Guide to Colleges
One of Money Magazine's "10 Great Colleges That Don't Care About Your SATs"
No. 36 on The Economist's list of best colleges in America based on value
Among both "The 100 smartest private colleges in America" and "The 101 smartest liberal arts colleges in America," according to Business Insider
No. 1 on the Institute for International Education's list of long-term study abroad programs
No. 3 on Accounting Degree Review's list of "Top 10 Undergraduate Accounting Programs in Massachusetts"
No. 9 on USA Today's list of "best U.S. colleges for a major in English"
One of a select group of "need-blind" colleges that accept students regardless of their ability to pay and meet 100 percent of demonstrated need
Average class size: 18 students (2015-2016 academic year)
Holy Cross has been part of either the answer or question on "Jeopardy!" 11 times
Student Achievement
96 percent first-year retention rate
92 percent six-year graduation rate
No. 8 for four-year graduation rates among all colleges and universities in the country, according to U.S. News & World Report
One of the highest graduation rates (97 percent) for student-athletes, among NCAA Division I schools
No. 12 on Money Magazine's list of "The 50 Best Private Colleges for Earning Your Degree On Time"
Holy Cross had the strongest academic ranking of all 68 teams in the 2016 NCAA men's basketball tournament, according to Time.com
Success After Graduation
Average starting salary for 2015 graduates: $48,455
Graduating from Holy Cross adds nearly 27 percent to an alum’s average mid-career earnings, according to a study by the Brookings Institution
82 percent medical school acceptance rate
96 percent law school acceptance rate
13 young alumni awarded Fulbright grants to teach and conduct research around the world during the 2017-18 academic year
A top producer of Fulbright students during the 2016-2017 academic year, according to the Chronicle of Higher Education
Over the last five years, 45 Holy Cross graduates have been awarded Fulbright grants to work and teach abroad
Three Holy Cross alumni are recipients of a Pulitzer Prize: Dave Anderson '51 (1991), Jack Higgins '76 (1989), and Edward P. Jones '72 (2004)
Alumni Engagement
50.2 percent of alumni made a gift to the College in the past year
No. 11 on U.S. News & World Report's liberal arts colleges with the highest giving rate
No. 12 on Princeton Review's Best Alumni Network list
6,111 donors took part in a 24-hour fundraising challenge for Holy Cross on Feb. 14, 2017, setting a donor record for a liberal arts college
Faculty
All courses are taught by faculty members; none by teaching assistants
93 percent hold terminal degrees
10:1 student to faculty ratio
No. 15 on Princeton Review's list of schools that have the most accessible professors
4 faculty members have won Guggenheim fellowships: Todd Lewis, professor of religious studies (2011); Sarah Stanbury, professor of English (2010); Leila Phillip, associate professor of English (2007); and Osvaldo Golijov, Loyola Professor of Music (1995)
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Post by hcpride on May 26, 2017 21:00:28 GMT -5
Is this what you are referencing? From our own HC website: From the "Points of Pride: College Excellence No. 32 on U.S. News & World Report's list of best liberal arts colleges
No. LOL. Much further back in my memory bank. It was 1997 that we first slipped below 25. To number 27. As the current 'points of pride' essentially indicate, we are now proudly tied at 32 (w/Bucknell, Pitzer, and US Air Force Academy).
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