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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Dec 20, 2017 7:56:26 GMT -5
Do tell. Are the PawSox definitely coming to Worcester? Would love to see it. From afar, it seems like they’re just ratcheting up the pressure to get more out of Pawtucket but that’s based on nothing other than how these things often play out in the sports world. I understand the cynicism. Lucchino has been in Worcester several times over the last couple months. The last time at city hall this past Friday. The proposal, which will be out early next month is encompassing the whole area around the ballpark. The state is supportive, and many brown fields will cleaned up. Lucchino wants an urban ballpark. This is the perfect location. There is no support in Rhode Island to support keeping the team. Yes, this will happen.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 20, 2017 8:13:25 GMT -5
Hope you are right, Wormtown. Lots of folks would be thrilled to finally have the chance to see some real minor league baseball in Worcester. Sign the deal, build the park, and get it done.
People will come. People will most definitely come.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 20, 2017 9:39:17 GMT -5
Do tell. Are the PawSox definitely coming to Worcester? Would love to see it. From afar, it seems like they’re just ratcheting up the pressure to get more out of Pawtucket but that’s based on nothing other than how these things often play out in the sports world. I understand the cynicism. Lucchino has been in Worcester several times over the last couple months. The last time at city hall this past Friday. The proposal, which will be out early next month is encompassing the whole area around the ballpark. The state is supportive, and many brown fields will cleaned up. Lucchino wants an urban ballpark. This is the perfect location. There is no support in Rhode Island to support keeping the team. Yes, this will happen. Hope it does. Would be great for Worcester and much easier for me to get to when Scranton comes to town.
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Post by Tom on Dec 20, 2017 12:31:42 GMT -5
Do tell. Are the PawSox definitely coming to Worcester? Would love to see it. From afar, it seems like they’re just ratcheting up the pressure to get more out of Pawtucket but that’s based on nothing other than how these things often play out in the sports world. I understand the cynicism. Lucchino has been in Worcester several times over the last couple months. The last time at city hall this past Friday. The proposal, which will be out early next month is encompassing the whole area around the ballpark. The state is supportive, and many brown fields will cleaned up. Lucchino wants an urban ballpark. This is the perfect location. There is no support in Rhode Island to support keeping the team. Yes, this will happen. The bigger question is.. If Worcester comes up with a great package for the PawSox and the day before the deal is signed either Providence or Pawtucket reasonably match the package, do the PawSox come to Worcester or stay in RI. I think the team stays in RI. If Worcester offers way more than RI's best offer, sure the PawSox come here. But, Worcester is a still a fallback plan at best
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Post by timholycross on Dec 20, 2017 13:59:19 GMT -5
Yes, the state's supportive but who is paying for it and is the agreement such that it could move forward without much public debate/approval?
Is it a case of the area is so bad environmentally that it qualifies for a lot of state or federal assistance in terms of cleaning it up?
It would seem in this case that there's enough space between what they want to build and any neighborhoods to minimize that as an impediment.
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Post by gks on Dec 20, 2017 14:01:56 GMT -5
What Worcester has working for it is RI is a mess.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Dec 20, 2017 14:30:48 GMT -5
Yes, the state's supportive but who is paying for it and is the agreement such that it could move forward without much public debate/approval? Is it a case of the area is so bad environmentally that it qualifies for a lot of state or federal assistance in terms of cleaning it up? It would seem in this case that there's enough space between what they want to build and any neighborhoods to minimize that as an impediment. Good points. This is the best chance for Worcester and the state to work together to clean up several acres of land that are contaminated and unbuildable. Wyman Gordon polluted that area for years. It is a blight and an eyesore. So, who will pay for it? The better question is can we afford to leave this property the way it is? My other question, can you imagine what Worcester would be like if Worcester didn’t build the Centrum? The same arguments against the Centrum have resurfaced here. As far as being “played” by the Pawsox ownership. Does that mean Worcester shouldn’t put in a bid and try to do something?
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Post by Tom on Dec 20, 2017 15:14:18 GMT -5
Yes, the state's supportive but who is paying for it and is the agreement such that it could move forward without much public debate/approval? Is it a case of the area is so bad environmentally that it qualifies for a lot of state or federal assistance in terms of cleaning it up? It would seem in this case that there's enough space between what they want to build and any neighborhoods to minimize that as an impediment. Good points. This is the best chance for Worcester and the state to work together to clean up several acres of land that are contaminated and unbuildable. Wyman Gordon polluted that area for years. It is a blight and an eyesore. So, who will pay for it? The better question is can we afford to leave this property the way it is? My other question, can you imagine what Worcester would be like if Worcester didn’t build the Centrum? The same arguments against the Centrum have resurfaced here. As far as being “played” by the Pawsox ownership. Does that mean Worcester shouldn’t put in a bid and try to do something? I'm not saying that Worcester, if after due diligence decides the project is worthwhile, shouldn't put in a bid. I just think there's a low chance of yield. In my industry we put out more quotes than we get orders. We know in advance some quotes are more likely to yield orders than others - some are real long shots. Worcester should have eyes wide open that this is a long shot. Kind of like the Amazon thing - although that would have a much higher payback. In terms of the site, what I have seen is across the street from the old Wyman Gordon manufacturing facility. I'm sure pollutants spread out over time, although I have no clue to what degree. The site of the proposed park might not be as contaminated as people think
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Jan 22, 2018 18:23:08 GMT -5
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Post by timholycross on Jan 23, 2018 11:38:26 GMT -5
The pessimist in me says "then why should Massachusetts"? But I hope someone comes up with a deal that makes sense for both parties and shares the risk.
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Post by Tom on Jan 24, 2018 15:44:52 GMT -5
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Feb 12, 2018 22:53:53 GMT -5
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Post by Tom on Feb 13, 2018 9:53:15 GMT -5
The area in the article refers what used to be the main Wyman-Gordon manufacturing facility. As I understand it, the site of a potential ball park is on the other side of Madison St (I think also W-G property but not where the main forge was). A quick look at a map shows the area the city is considering for re-development is a larger parcel than the ball park would take
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 13, 2018 10:04:22 GMT -5
The city can use some redevelopment, that is certain. Since I am not a Worcester local, I don't care about the Pawsox. But, if this could help the city (and indirectly Holy Cross), I am all for it. Locally a NJ city (Garfield) is trying to use eminent domain to move for redevelopment, but it has met many roadblocks from locals.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Feb 13, 2018 10:48:29 GMT -5
The city can use some redevelopment, that is certain. Since I am not a Worcester local, I don't care about the Pawsox. But, if this could help the city (and indirectly Holy Cross), I am all for it. Locally a NJ city (Garfield) is trying to use eminent domain to move for redevelopment, but it has met many roadblocks from locals. These properties are vacant, polluted and a eyesore. Nothing will happen there without some sort of government intervention. I think Wyman Gordon would like nothing more than to unload these parcels so I don’t think there should be any resistance to eminent domain in this case.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 13, 2018 11:13:55 GMT -5
That is good to hear. Eminent domain typically can mean a lower price for the property, while raising the value of adjacent and nearby property as well.
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Post by Tom on Feb 13, 2018 11:21:01 GMT -5
Unlike the parcel for the proposed ball field, this is the site of a manufacturing facility that dated back to the 19th century. Who the heck knows what is buried there under common and legal practice. That lot is probably a liability more than an asset when dealing with 21st century regulations. I agree that Wyman would be glad if the city took the property as long as they didn't take the section next to the railroad tracks that is still in use
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Post by timholycross on Feb 13, 2018 12:32:20 GMT -5
Unlike the parcel for the proposed ball field, this is the site of a manufacturing facility that dated back to the 19th century. Who the heck knows what is buried there under common and legal practice. That lot is probably a liability more than an asset when dealing with 21st century regulations. I agree that Wyman would be glad if the city took the property as long as they didn't take the section next to the railroad tracks that is still in use I'm sure there's some possibility that the feds will kick in to clean it up, no matter who buys it.
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Post by DiMarz on Feb 13, 2018 17:24:17 GMT -5
Would having the WooSox in town be a plus to recruiting athletes? Tough to answer that...But a AAA team would add a bit of shine to Worcester..
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 14, 2018 8:38:56 GMT -5
It cost the Navy and the U.S. taxpayer $1 billion to clean up the pollution at the San Francisco Naval Shipyard. One shouldn't use eminent domain for what may be a grossly contaminated industrial site(s) because it will cost the city an arm and a leg to clean up.
Near me, they accidentally discovered phenols in a stream bed (Federal land). The phenols dated from the era of illuminating gas. The cost to clean a small area of contamination: about $1,000 a square foot.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 14, 2018 9:29:25 GMT -5
It cost the Navy and the U.S. taxpayer $1 billion to clean up the pollution at the San Francisco Naval Shipyard. One shouldn't use eminent domain for what may be a grossly contaminated industrial site(s) because it will cost the city an arm and a leg to clean up. Near me, they accidentally discovered phenols in a stream bed (Federal land). The phenols dated from the era of illuminating gas. The cost to clean a small area of contamination: about $1,000 a square foot. Agreed. The city or the state would be nuts to spend a lot of money cleaning it up. Federal government (yes, it's still us) or leave it idle.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Feb 14, 2018 13:34:35 GMT -5
It cost the Navy and the U.S. taxpayer $1 billion to clean up the pollution at the San Francisco Naval Shipyard. One shouldn't use eminent domain for what may be a grossly contaminated industrial site(s) because it will cost the city an arm and a leg to clean up. Near me, they accidentally discovered phenols in a stream bed (Federal land). The phenols dated from the era of illuminating gas. The cost to clean a small area of contamination: about $1,000 a square foot. Agreed. The city or the state would be nuts to spend a lot of money cleaning it up. Federal government (yes, it's still us) or leave it idle. Leave it idle? The place is an eyesore. Why should those of us that live here have to look at this any longer? I guarantee if this was in Boston all resources would be given for cleanup.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 14, 2018 18:58:10 GMT -5
Happy to contribute my federal tax dollars to the task. If it doesn't qualify for that, it's your money that's going to pay for it, sir. Not mine.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Feb 14, 2018 19:40:36 GMT -5
Happy to contribute my federal tax dollars to the task. If it doesn't qualify for that, it's your money that's going to pay for it, sir. Not mine. If I can spend my Worcester dollars towards a multi billion dollar big dig in Boston then people from Boston can spen their dollars towards a multi million dollar project in Worcester.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 14, 2018 20:14:44 GMT -5
As it stands, Wyman Gordon, as owner of the property, is liable for the cleanup. Its possible that the big forge press is/was government-owned, and if so, that's potentially a Federal liability. If Worcester was simply interested in building a new stadium, the easiest solution would be to cap the soil, and build atop the cap. However, it seems Worcester has a much greater scheme in mind. If Worcester were to use eminent domain, then I believe, under MA law, the city becomes financially responsible for the clean-up. There are brownfields provisions under Federal law, but these probably aren't applicable to a property that is not abandoned and is seized by eminent domain for the benefit if the city. The site, though contaminated, does not apparently present an immediate health hazard. See also: semspub.epa.gov/src/collection/01/SC34182I have not read the documents at the EPA link. The problem with attempting to re-use a contaminated site, where contamination remains in situ, is that insurance may not be available for owners / residents of new habitable buildings. No insurance, no mortgages.
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