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Post by matunuck on Jul 25, 2017 9:16:59 GMT -5
Admissions (Class of 2021)
Applications: 6,623
Acceptance rate: 39%
48 percent male, 52 percent female
Students from public high schools: 50%
Students from private or Catholic high schools: 50%
Number of international students: 32
Enrollment by Region:
New England 55%
Mid-Atlantic 24%
Mid-West 5%
South 8%
West 6%
Number of States/US Territories Represented: 33
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Post by purplehaze on Jul 25, 2017 9:42:02 GMT -5
for a 'national liberal arts school', this distribution is somewhat surprising. 4 out 5 come from the northeast. is this class less diverse (geographically) than previous classes ?
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Post by hchoops on Jul 25, 2017 9:47:26 GMT -5
for a 'national liberal arts school', this distribution is somewhat surprising. 4 out 5 come from the northeast. is this class less diverse (geographically) than previous classes ? Maybe being picky, but mid Atlantic would not be totally northeast: Maryland, DC, Delaware. your point is valid.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 27, 2017 8:16:06 GMT -5
for a 'national liberal arts school', this distribution is somewhat surprising. 4 out 5 come from the northeast. is this class less diverse (geographically) than previous classes ? Probably more diverse with respect to the West and the South. It would be interesting to see how many of those from the South and the West are recruited athletes.
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 27, 2017 8:27:33 GMT -5
Just for clarification..."The Census Bureau has defined the Northeast region as comprising nine states: from northeast to southwest, they are Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. The region is subdivided into New England (the six states east of New York) and the Mid-Atlantic States (New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania)."
There are other definitions, but - at least according to the U.S. Census Bureau - it means 79% of HC students will be coming from the Northeast.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 27, 2017 9:00:07 GMT -5
Our acceptance rate was 37% in 2015, 38% 2016 (https://www.holycross.edu/about-holy-cross/holy-cross-glance), and now 39% for 2017.
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Post by matunuck on Jul 27, 2017 9:23:41 GMT -5
(Class of 2021) Enrollment by Region: New England 55% Mid-Atlantic 24% Mid-West 5% South 8% West 6% Number of States/US Territories Represented: 33 For comparison: Enrollment by Region (class of 2019): New England 56% Mid-Atlantic 22% Mid-West 6% South 6% West 6%
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Post by hc6774 on Jul 27, 2017 9:50:28 GMT -5
I think the story about this class is an expected 800+ to enroll; I believe the target was 725
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Post by sarasota on Jul 27, 2017 10:04:34 GMT -5
I think we can assume that since most applicants know that HC is highly selective, the 46% acceptance rate should be seen in that light. That is, weak candidates don't bother to apply. Maybe that's a good reason is require an essay, i.e., weed out marginal candidates.
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Post by matunuck on Jul 27, 2017 10:13:10 GMT -5
Interesting to see if the higher yield rate is a one off or a trend, in which case HC will likely lower its acceptance rate -- assuming we're not increasing our overall enrollment long term. For 2021, target class size was 775, I believe.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 27, 2017 10:42:10 GMT -5
Interesting to see if the higher yield rate is a one off or a trend, in which case HC will likely lower its acceptance rate -- assuming we're not increasing our overall enrollment long term. For 2021, target class size was 775, I believe. Also interested in seeing how many actually show up on campus. If it is significantly more than the target, that might require a tweak next year by admissions. My understanding was that HC (student body last year 2910) wants to stay at or just under 3000 and that the target was approximately 775 this year.
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Post by alum on Jul 27, 2017 11:13:27 GMT -5
We need more information. When we find out how many enroll, we will know the yield. If it is 825, for example, out of 2582, that would be 31.9%. If the college had reduced acceptances to 36%, that would be 2384 students and if the yield stayed the same at 31.9% then there would be 760 students coming.
The point of this is to show that getting hyped up about the percentages at a small school like HC is understandable (our egos and US News rankings matter) but not very reasonable.
Looking at the profile of the accepted students and the enrolled students would be much more helpful to understanding how admissions is doing.
That said, I still think that they could do more recruiting and I would offer a limited number of merit scholarships to the very best students. I would also go back to giving room and board to those students admitted on ROTC scholarships which would allow us to compete with the service academies for those students.
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Post by matunuck on Jul 27, 2017 11:20:47 GMT -5
Yield is a very important metric, and I know HC is trying to significantly boost it --
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Post by hcpride on Jul 27, 2017 11:56:06 GMT -5
We need more information. When we find out how many enroll, we will know the yield. If it is 825, for example, out of 2582, that would be 31.9%. If the college had reduced acceptances to 36%, that would be 2384 students and if the yield stayed the same at 31.9% then there would be 760 students coming. The point of this is to show that getting hyped up about the percentages at a small school like HC is understandable (our egos and US News rankings matter) but not very reasonable. Looking at the profile of the accepted students and the enrolled students would be much more helpful to understanding how admissions is doing.
That said, I still think that they could do more recruiting and I would offer a limited number of merit scholarships to the very best students. I would also go back to giving room and board to those students admitted on ROTC scholarships which would allow us to compete with the service academies for those students. Unfortunately a very significant component of the HC accepted student profile - ACT/SAT scores (and a very objective component at that) - is null and void due to the HC "test score optional" strategy. That strategy does enormously aid in lowering our selectivity percentage (by greatly boosting applicant numbers), to the point our selectivity percentage is asterisked by the savvy counselors, etc. Rest assured that strategy was purposefully adopted by HC. Agree there may be a tiny gain (or not) in 'yield percentage' / 'selectivity' given our relatively low numbers and there should be no strong reaction to that. Unless it is a trend. Of course, for a LAC, we are not a small school...and the other LACs get smacked around (or not) on USNWR rankings by the same math. HC's message to the strongest academically achieving students is that they hotly pursue athletes.
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Post by hc6774 on Jul 27, 2017 13:17:00 GMT -5
Interesting to see if the higher yield rate is a one off or a trend, in which case HC will likely lower its acceptance rate -- assuming we're not increasing our overall enrollment long term. For 2021, target class size was 775, I believe. I may have misheard him in April but I thought Fr B reported that projected enrollment was 735 slightly above the target but the 'summer melt' phenomenon may change this number; in June I was told by an on campus source that it was over 800, almost 100 over the target, and plans for triples & quads were being formulated
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Post by hc6774 on Jul 27, 2017 13:43:29 GMT -5
That said, I still think that they could do more recruiting and I would offer a limited number of merit scholarships to the very best students. I would also go back to giving room and board to those students admitted on ROTC scholarships which would allow us to compete with the service academies for those students. I believe this ROTC grant is still in place... see the College's web page discussion of ROTC scholarships Traditionally the Navy ROTC relied on 4 yr scholarships; the Army & Air Force less so. Two years ago the Navy reduced the number of 4 yr scholarships in favor of more 3 & 2 yr scholarships. Fr Brooks initiated NROTC grant in his last year, 1994, for the incoming class of '98... I believe it was prompted by other ROTC schools offering merit aid to attract ROTC scholarship students, the Air Force unit moving to WPI & the Navy proposing the same but later withdrawing the proposal.
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Post by matunuck on Jul 27, 2017 14:00:01 GMT -5
Hearing our incoming NROTC class is larger than anticipated. We'll see.
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Post by crossbball13 on Jul 29, 2017 17:14:19 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the extra 100 students offset football scholarships in total by more than 100%? And that's just from 1 class.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 29, 2017 17:47:17 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the extra 100 students offset football scholarships in total by more than 100%? And that's just from 1 class. If I understand what you are trying to say, the answer is no. HC does not budget (pay for) football scollies by enrolling full pay students; i.e., if 20 scollies are awarded, then HC does not enroll 20, 40, 60, 100 full pays to help offset the cost. One does not know how many, or even if any, of the extra 100 are full pays. HC has sought to increase the number of full pays because the HC budget for need-based fin aid is being strained by the demand for fin aid.
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Post by crossbball13 on Jul 29, 2017 19:43:24 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the extra 100 students offset football scholarships in total by more than 100%? And that's just from 1 class. If I understand what you are trying to say, the answer is no. HC does not budget (pay for) football scollies by enrolling full pay students; i.e., if 20 scollies are awarded, then HC does not enroll 20, 40, 60, 100 full pays to help offset the cost. One does not know how many, or even if any, of the extra 100 are full pays. HC has sought to increase the number of full pays because the HC budget for need-based fin aid is being strained by the demand for fin aid. Holy Cross "pays" money for scholarships. The 100 additional students "pay" holy cross to attend (regardless of full pay/half pay whatever). Do you not agree with the basis of my post in that the revenue generated by the "found" money in the extra 100 students has an effect of an offset to scholarships?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 29, 2017 22:32:34 GMT -5
Won't HC have to hire 10 more instructors to teach the 100 extra students??
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 30, 2017 17:13:30 GMT -5
If I understand what you are trying to say, the answer is no. HC does not budget (pay for) football scollies by enrolling full pay students; i.e., if 20 scollies are awarded, then HC does not enroll 20, 40, 60, 100 full pays to help offset the cost. One does not know how many, or even if any, of the extra 100 are full pays. HC has sought to increase the number of full pays because the HC budget for need-based fin aid is being strained by the demand for fin aid. Holy Cross "pays" money for scholarships. The 100 additional students "pay" holy cross to attend (regardless of full pay/half pay whatever). Do you not agree with the basis of my post in that the revenue generated by the "found" money in the extra 100 students has an effect of an offset to scholarships? No college that I know of budgets as you suggest. Student revenue is pooled and spent for the general operation of the college, whether it be for food in the dining hall, electricity, faculty salaries, athletic scollies or other financial aid. The tuition and fees paid by any student or group of students are not isolated to pay for a single purpose item; e.g., ADDR was not told that Holy Cross had brought in 30 more students so he can now go ahead and buy out CSK's contract. And flip the coin on your proposition. Suppose the yield was 100 students less than HC had planned for. Would you expect HC to now tell CTG, 'we can't afford your scollies this year.'? Of course not.
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Post by crossbball13 on Jul 30, 2017 19:31:15 GMT -5
Holy Cross "pays" money for scholarships. The 100 additional students "pay" holy cross to attend (regardless of full pay/half pay whatever). Do you not agree with the basis of my post in that the revenue generated by the "found" money in the extra 100 students has an effect of an offset to scholarships? No college that I know of budgets as you suggest. Student revenue is pooled and spent for the general operation of the college, whether it be for food in the dining hall, electricity, faculty salaries, athletic scollies or other financial aid. The tuition and fees paid by any student or group of students are not isolated to pay for a single purpose item; e.g., ADDR was not told that Holy Cross had brought in 30 more students so he can now go ahead and buy out CSK's contract. And flip the coin on your proposition. Suppose the yield was 100 students less than HC had planned for. Would you expect HC to now tell CTG, 'we can't afford your scollies this year.'? Of course not. You're putting works in my mouth as I did not say anything in the nature that you're implying. What I did say is that in essence, the 100 additional students add to Holy Cross' revenues, in one way or another -- one of which ways could be viewing the "found" money in comparison to football scholarships effectually. You're the one who constantly references that the student body is subsidizing hc athletics by $xxxx per head and that parents will get upset if that number increases. Adding more students lessens that ratio, no?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 30, 2017 21:19:42 GMT -5
If Holy Cross were a football factory, and one scollie football player was the unit of production, the marginal cost of 15 football scollies in the class of 2021 would be about $1 million. And because HC awarded these 15 scollies, the marginal revenue from the 'extra' 100 students who were now enrolling (solely because the school awarded these scollies) is about $6.5 million. From a business standpoint, awarding these 15 scollies would make immense sense to TPTB running the football factory, --its a no-brainer. ________________________
To the other point. Because HC subsidizes the athletic program (generated revenues (ticket sales, etc) do not come close to covering costs), as the number of undergraduates increases, the individual subsidy cost for athletics per undergraduate declines. So yes, the 'extra' 100 students reduces the individual cost per student.
The PL playing field is not level when it comes to students having to subsidize the cost of athletics. If the subsidy cost of athletics at HC is $20 million, the cost per student (2900 students) is $20M / 2900. If the subsidy cost of athletics at BostU is also $20 million, the cost per BostU student (16,500 undergraduates) is $20M / 16,500, or < 20 percent of the cost to a HC student..
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Post by hcpride on Jul 31, 2017 5:08:23 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the extra 100 students offset football scholarships in total by more than 100%? And that's just from 1 class. No. Assuming 100 (full paying and) unplanned for students actually materialize late August, their tuition and fees could not be directly applied in that fashion.
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