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Post by crossbball13 on Sept 12, 2017 20:39:06 GMT -5
Hm where are those 3 colleges located? Any correlation? Hmm, haven't they always been in Boston? Hasn't Villanova always been in Philadelphia? Has Boston improved at all over the last 10 years? How about the last 20? |
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Post by hcpride on Sept 12, 2017 20:52:31 GMT -5
Hmm, haven't they always been in Boston? Hasn't Villanova always been in Philadelphia? Has Boston improved at all over the last 10 years? How about the last 20? Were Boston and Philadelphia more appealing than Worcester 50 years ago? 20 years ago? Aren't there some Boston and Philadelphia area schools with better, lesser, and similar reputations? Wasn't it that way 10 years ago? 20 years ago? How about 50 years ago? |
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Post by hc87 on Sept 12, 2017 22:42:35 GMT -5
Northeastern has probably transformed itself academically/reputation-wise more than any college/university I can think of in the last 30-35 years....in my day (said in my "Old Guy SNL" voice) it was largely a safety school for kids who basically couldn't get in anywhere elsewhere. Today, kids want to go there ovah schools like HC.
More a NU reason than HC imo....urban school, STEM majors etc etc.....can we fight against that thinking? I dunno
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Post by hcpride on Sept 13, 2017 6:42:10 GMT -5
Northeastern has probably transformed itself academically/reputation-wise more than any college/university I can think of in the last 30-35 years....in my day (said in my "Old Guy SNL" voice) it was largely a safety school for kids who basically couldn't get in anywhere elsewhere. Today, kids want to go there ovah schools like HC. More a NU reason than HC imo....urban school, STEM majors etc etc.....can we fight against that thinking? I dunno Agreed (along with BU). I'd add internships, merit aid to the brightest, and ditching football as some other distinguishing characteristics. Further agree it is more a NU reason than a HC reason. There are macro and micro forces that may be beyond our control.
(Certainly being in or near a popular major city hasn't hurt schools like BC, BU, NU, and Villanova put us in their rearview mirror. Given all the other schools in those identical cities above, even, or below us in terms of reputation - not to mention the fact these four schools have not changed locations in a hundred years -that cannot be a decisive factor.)
Of course we continue to take in and graduate great kids - this is to forestall a comment that I'm too negative.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 13, 2017 7:39:54 GMT -5
Even though a school's location may not have changed, that does not mean that the location has not been a significant factor in a school's changing fortunes, in my opinion. Over time, (1) the city could have become more or less appealing and (2) target students could become more/less interested in a particular type of setting, e.g. social media could be enhancing the appeal of "cool" cities more so than other college settings.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 13, 2017 7:43:18 GMT -5
Villanova is not in Philadelphia. It is not in an urban setting. Villanova is on the "Main Line" named for the main line of the Pennsylvania Railroad which bisects the campus. When I was growing up quite near to Villanova, there were no university buildings south of Lancaster Pike, US Route 30, which also bisects the campus. It was mostly parking lots; Villanova had a high number of commuting day students. With completion of this next set of residence halls, Villanova will be able to house 85 percent of the undergraduates on campus. That growth in residential housing, more than anything, has transformed Villanova and increased its competitiveness. goo.gl/maps/E2FuP1j4Mwj^^^ Streetview of a street immediately south of the center part of the campus. goo.gl/maps/fpgVGpiWoGF2^^^ Streetview of a street just north of the campus. The street actually bisects the camous. There are eight dorms less than a 1000 feet away. |
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Post by hcpride on Sept 13, 2017 7:54:52 GMT -5
Villanova is not in Philadelphia. It is not in an urban setting. Villanova is on the "Main Line" named for the main line of the Pennsylvania Railroad which bisects the campus. When I was growing up quite near to Villanova, there were no university buildings south of Lancaster Pike, US Route 30, which also bisects the campus. It was mostly parking lots; Villanova had a high number of commuting day students. With completion of this next set of residence halls, Villanova will be able to house 85 percent of the undergraduates on campus. That growth in residential housing, more than anything, has transformed Villanova and increased its competitiveness. goo.gl/maps/E2FuP1j4Mwj^^^ Streetview of a street immediately south of the center part of the campus. goo.gl/maps/fpgVGpiWoGF2^^^ Streetview of a street just north of the campus. The street actually bisects the camous. There are eight dorms less than a 1000 feet away. I've been visiting the big V since the 1960's (I noted it, along with BC, BU and NU, are in or near popular cities). And I can attest to the fact it is not in an urban setting and that it has added to its campus residential opportunities. Several young people I know are attending there currently and have pulled wonderful internships in Philadelphia - they are business majors. It has enhanced its attractiveness to students/parents via many programs and improvements (including, but not at all limited to, increased on-campus residences). Now that they are considered a National University (and improved from 50 to 46 this year BTW) their mantra is "not just a Philadelphia school anymore".
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Post by matunuck on Sept 13, 2017 9:46:33 GMT -5
The fact that high school counselors score us where they do tells me we need to do lots more outreach --
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Post by rf1 on Sept 13, 2017 11:19:56 GMT -5
The city of Worcester doesn't seem to be hurting other local colleges:
US News & World Report
2017 National University Rankings
#61 Worcester Polytechnic Institute
#81 Clark University
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 13, 2017 11:39:11 GMT -5
The fact that high school counselors score us where they do tells me we need to do lots more outreach -- Ann does little outreach beyond her 'old boys, old girls' network. I still believe that HC does not use the PSAT to identify potential applicants and mail them HC materials for their consideration, and invite them to apply. It doesn't use the PSAT because that's a standardized test, which are verboten. |
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Post by alum on Sept 13, 2017 12:01:52 GMT -5
If you asked me to rate the NESCAC's, I would say Williams Amherst Middlebury Wesleyan Trinity Bates/Bowdoin/Colby--because in my mind they are interchangeable Hamilton Conn (I left Tufts out on purpose because it isn't an LAC) Obviously, my rankings don't match up with the US News one and are based, I suppose, in large part on faulty decades old ideas and on a prejudice against the idea of going to college in Maine. Somewhere along the line, Bowdoin moved up in the pack and became quite popular--it only accepts 15% of applicants--but I don't really know why. The real problem with these rankings is that the only outcomes they test are graduation and retention. They don't test mid career earnings (which would only be probative of what the college was like twenty five years earlier,) graduate and professional school placement (except that anybody can go to law school so unless you use the rankings of the law schools they attend, this stat isn't much,) Rhodes Scholarships, Fulbrights, etc. Maybe we ought to try to find out what percentage of graduates have substance abuse problems and what percentage make friends for life. We all know these things are flawed but can't help ourselves from worrying about them. Why the negative opinion on the state of Maine? It's a great place. No particular reason. In fact, I think Brunswick has more going for it than Williamstown but I never harbored any negative thoughts about Williams. I have no objective reason to think that Western Mass is a better place to go to college than Maine. I think that a lot of college decision making is equally uniformed. That's why colleges need to figure out a way to stand out and I am not sure that HC is doing enough. |
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Post by matunuck on Sept 13, 2017 12:44:29 GMT -5
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Post by Chu Chu on Sept 13, 2017 12:54:57 GMT -5
Complete list here: www.collegefactual.com/rankings/best-colleges/p2.html#abs19I like this ranking because it uses measures that attempt to not be subjective, and not based on reputation. Holy Cross ranks: National: 19 out of 1387 New England: 7 out of 123 Massachusetts: 4 out of 63 Many other categories listed in the article. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 13, 2017 13:06:33 GMT -5
With Holy Cross finishing #19 out of 1,387 colleges & universities in the country we should be celebrating these results and touting them to prospective students and counselors. How long has this company been publishing these lists? Of course, those who believe in USN&WR and in no other ranking service will reject the conclusions in this "fact-based" analysis. |
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Post by hcpride on Sept 13, 2017 13:24:28 GMT -5
With Holy Cross finishing #19 out of 1,387 colleges & universities in the country we should be celebrating these results and touting them to prospective students and counselors. How long has this company been publishing these lists? Of course, those who believe in USN&WR and in no other ranking service will reject the conclusions in this "fact-based" analysis. Any ranking that puts us at #19 and Columbia University six places behind at #25 (as these 'college factual' rankings fantastically do) is absolutely awesome as far as I am concerned! And the Georgetown #41 confirms it. I do not reject the conclusions in this fact-based analysis.
(All kidding aside, there are tons of ratings and rankings our there but the unfortunate reality is there seems to be just one that is widely known by prospective students/ parents and their counselors.)
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Post by Chu Chu on Sept 13, 2017 13:26:52 GMT -5
KY, if you want to have some fun, check out the "College Combat" feature on the website: www.collegefactual.com/tools/college-combat/You can directly compare any colleges in the country to see who wins the "combat"! A great tool for student and families. Holy Cross - BC is fun! |
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 13, 2017 13:34:32 GMT -5
Chu, cute tool...I like their ratings!
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 13, 2017 14:00:04 GMT -5
KY, if you want to have some fun, check out the "College Combat" feature on the website: www.collegefactual.com/tools/college-combat/You can directly compare any colleges in the country to see who wins the "combat"! A great tool for student and families. Holy Cross - BC is fun! Thanks, chu chu--lots of fun, indeed!! I first pitted HC versus Villanova, adjusting the importance of each preference without looking at the ratings, and am happy to report that HC won. Then, for grins, I pitted the University of Louisville versus the University of Kentucky--- Kentucky won but, after looking at the individual letter grades by subject, I think I will be seeking a meeting with the governor soon to discuss a reduction in my state income taxes..... |
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Post by matunuck on Sept 13, 2017 14:03:56 GMT -5
What annoys me is getting short changed by HS counselors, who are obviously important in the college selection process. Our score should be higher, and HC should have a plan to make headway with them.
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Post by CHC8485 on Sept 13, 2017 14:24:11 GMT -5
Just moved all of the factors to important and Holy Cross beat
all of the PL schools (for some reason American is not in the database)
Boston College
Williams
Tufts
Trinity
Bates
Bowdoin
Fordham
Villanova
Wellesley (dropped the importance of male-female diversity to don't care for this comparison)
All indicators to me that we need to tell our story better on all fronts or at least find a way to tell it to a broader audience!
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 14, 2017 5:21:07 GMT -5
A certain yesteryear class placed five graduates into Harvard Med, and one of them was not named Fauci. When did a HC graduate(s) last matriculate at Harvard Med? Other than Fr. Busam no longer chairing the Biology Dept., what happened to what was a pipeline into the top med schools? And there is Ted Wells, who is a member of the Harvard Corporation, the ultimate PTB in Cambridge. Are there other up-and-coming individuals like Ted Wells in the HC alumni ranks? Definitely not a medical guy and I'm sure Harvard is the best. However anyone I ask at hc from mass wants to go to mass med in Worcester. You know why. Hc places plenty there. They do ok. Back in yesteryear, applicants who wanted to be pre-med at HC had to indicate that on their application, and were required to take certain achievement tests. As I understand it, the pre-med applicants were put in a separate admission pool. And it was harder to be admitted to HC as a pre-med than it was as a regular (non pre-med) applicant. HC may even have used a minimum SAT score threshold for the pre-meds, e.g., if the average SAT for HC admits was 1250, the pre-med's minimum may have been 1325. If one class placed five graduates into Harvard Med, that would suggest those students' MCAT scores, as a group, were extraordinary. Which further suggests that their SAT and Achievement test scores, on applying to HC, were also extraordinary. I don't know when HC stopped having a separate pre-med applicant pool, it may have coincided with going co-ed. |
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Post by matunuck on Sept 14, 2017 7:37:35 GMT -5
(All kidding aside, there are tons of ratings and rankings our there but the unfortunate reality is there seems to be just one that is widely known by prospective students/ parents and their counselors.)
Jesuits certainly pay attention to US News --
Jesuit Schools Named to 2018 U.S. News & World Report Rankings
BYLINE: Targeted News Service
LENGTH: 394 words
DATELINE: WASHINGTON
The Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities issued the following news release:
On Tuesday, September 12th, U.S. News & World Report released its annual rankings of the best colleges and universities in the United States. Jesuit institutions were featured prominently on the list:
NATIONAL UNIVERSITIES (311 schools)
20. Georgetown University; 32. Boston College; 61. Fordham University; 90. Marquette University; 94. Saint Louis University; 103. Loyola University Chicago; 110. University of San Francisco
NATIONAL LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGES (233 schools)
33. College of the Holy Cross
REGIONAL MASTER'S UNIVERSITIES: North (196 schools)
3. Fairfield University; 4. Loyola University Maryland; 6. University of Scranton; 11. Saint Joseph's University; 17. Le Moyne College; 22. Canisius College; 97. Saint Peter's University
REGIONAL MASTER'S UNIVERSITIES: South (149 schools)
10. Loyola University New Orleans; 41. Wheeling Jesuit University
REGIONAL MASTER'S UNIVERSITIES: Midwest (173 schools)
1. Creighton University; 5. Xavier University; 6. John Carroll University; 11. Rockhurst University; 19. University of Detroit Mercy
REGIONAL MASTER'S UNIVERSITIES: West (141 schools)
2. Santa Clara University; 3. Loyola Marymount University; 4. Gonzaga University; 7. Seattle University; 27. Regis University
*Please note: Spring Hill College is classified in the category of National Liberal Arts Colleges.
Of note, Creighton University was named the #1 regional master's university in the Midwest for the 15th consecutive year; Gonzaga University has the second best graduation rate of regional master's universities in the West; Loyola Marymount University was named the second best college for veterans among regional master's universities in the West, while Saint Joseph's University was named the fourth best college for veterans among regional master's universities in the North; and Wheeling Jesuit University was named the best regional master's university in West Virginia, while Fairfield University was named the best regional master's university in Connecticut. For more highlights, please click on the following school names: Canisius College, John Carroll University, Le Moyne College, Loyola University New Orleans and Seattle University.
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