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Post by joutsHC77 on Sept 23, 2017 22:48:52 GMT -5
I watched the game and I think we underestimated Dartmouth, at least I did when I did my picks. I feel they clearly outplayed us even though we tied it and had a chance to win. Tighten up everything and get back on track.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 23, 2017 23:22:26 GMT -5
Two weeks shy of 51 years ago on Fitton Field in a torrential downpour, Dartmouth went for a 2 point conversion to try to win the game against Holy Cross and preserve their longest in the nation winning streak. They missed the conversion and lost 7-6. Tonight (yesterday now, after midnight) a nationally ranked Holy Cross team went for a 2 point conversion to try to win the game, and perhaps retain its national ranking. Like Dartmouth 51 years earlier, the 2 point conversion fell short and this time it was Holy Cross who lost a close game. So when others talk about "karma" on another thread, perhaps here is where the karma really is. 51 years but the Big Green has gotten their revenge for that loss on Fitton Field. FWIW, I agreed with the call to go for two. I didn't agree when earlier in the game we went for a FG and missed as even if we made still would have been down 3 and time running short. We also had made at least 2 (maybe 3?) 4th down conversions. Now we are within striking distance of a TD and we go for the FG . . . . and MISS! Ugh! Great dinner pre-game with 45, his Mrs. and mine. Good contingent of Crusader fans and some poor officiating, some mistakes and some questionable calls added up to loss. Had we played as we did against UNH, the game would have been a W. The line play on both sides was advantage Green. Play them 10 more times and we win 7 or 8 of them. Hey, we had great baseball weather!
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Post by hchoops on Sept 23, 2017 23:28:57 GMT -5
Did not see the game I am confused Most say they outplayed us Sader1970 says we would win 7 or 8 out of 10 ??
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Post by hc87 on Sept 23, 2017 23:29:22 GMT -5
Long story short...a bad loss....Gilmore is incapable of winning a close game...he has to go
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Post by purplepassion80 on Sept 23, 2017 23:41:38 GMT -5
I have never seen an offense look so good and so bad in the same game. When we are going well there is misdirection, screens, crossing routes, deep slants, or go patterns, dives; great variety and clearly the defense is on their heels. But other times we go into a funk and every play seems so predictable. It just seems as though we go on 80 yard drives or 3 and outs. And 3 and outs will kill a team. Anyone else think the same?
I know one thing, if Buddy Teevens had Peter, Blaise, Deqwan, Miles, Gabe, (not mention Ritchie and Dom who didn't play tonight) and that offensive line, his offense would put up 50 points per game. We have some very talented players.
Agree with HC87. HCTG has a terrible record against winning teams since scholarships have been awarded. He has to go. Patriot League is very winnable, but this guy simply has not won in the scholarship era. I have the numbers if anyone wants them. They are astounding.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 23, 2017 23:57:46 GMT -5
Agree with HC87. HCTG has a terrible record against winning teams since scholarships have been awarded. He has to go. Patriot League is very winnable, but this guy simply has not won in the scholarship era. I have the numbers if anyone wants them. They are astounding. [ It's incredibly ignorant to think that the program would immediately turn around as soon as scholarships were brought back. It was going to take time to re-build the roster, and if you can't see the tremendous progress that we have made this year, you're just not paying attention. Is it really Tom Gilmore's fault that the long snapper couldn't execute an extra point? Come on. All those who think we should just kick Gilmore to the curb and we'll immediately make improvements should take a long, hard look at Fordham. They were a good distance ahead of where we are now when Morehead left for Penn State, and the guy that they could get to replace him sounds like he may be in over his head and just lost to Bryant. Big time coaches are not lining up for PL jobs. This team has the potential to run the table in the PL this year. If we don't come close to reaching that level, then there is a discussion to be had. But at this point, it's crazy to ignore the progress that we have made as a program through these first four games.
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Post by deep Purple on Sept 24, 2017 0:09:36 GMT -5
As bad as this loss was, it doesn't come close to the Albany loss. That was a loss for the ages. I liked the gutsy decision to go for two. One last play and may the better team win. Our defense appeared to be tired and we probably would have missed the xp anyway. The better team won tonight. Also, there's no such thing as karma.
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Post by hc80 on Sept 24, 2017 5:17:31 GMT -5
Did not watch the game but am dumbfounded as to why going for 2 points in OT was the smart call. Folks here have said the defense was gassed - but time of possession was in our favor and they should be in good enough shape to handle this. Yes, the last kick was a mess but we don't trust that unit ever again? As I said, did not watc- any clarity as to why Gilmore took this approach would be appreciated-
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 24, 2017 7:21:51 GMT -5
Hoops, from the stands, it appeared to the HC faithful that there were a bunch or early egregiously bad calls by the refs. Fairly early on, it appeared we intercepted a pass, looked like our player ran a couple of steps, dropped the ball and another of our players recovered. Initial call by one ref looked like he was giving us possession. Another ref, further away, says incomplete pass. There were others but that one comes immediately to mind.
But it this loss not on the refs. The mistakes, which did not make against the Wildcats were happening too frequently for us to win as we were capable and should have done. Fumbled punt that they recover deep in our territory. Missed extra point, which was a strong point this season. Getting some momentum by making a gutsy call to fake a punt and get long yardage while in our own territory but then going 3 and out.
I did think that for long stretches that Dartmouth lines, both ways, were playing better than ours. Other times, not so much.
A very disappointing loss but perhaps the UNH fans believe they would beat us 7 or 8 times out of 10?
My statement was a belief, not a statement of fact. I believe td128 or someone else posted the stats of the game. We won the stat game except for the most important one - final score.
FWIW, I picked HC to win but always thought it would be close and was afraid of a letdown after UNH.
One last thing, and the second guessers can second guess. We heard that the team came up to Hanover the day before and had all day Saturday "sitting in their hotel." Of course, if they came up early Saturday, people would think that would be the wrong decision.
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Post by lou on Sept 24, 2017 7:30:05 GMT -5
The "fake punt" looked a very smart move by our kicker. Dartmouth sent noone to challenge the kick. The kid realized he was all alone and took off. At least that was the streaming version of the play
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Post by joe on Sept 24, 2017 7:44:38 GMT -5
Given the OT format I don't see how going for two in this situation would ever be the correct move, except in very specific situations like your quarterback getting injured on the first series or something else catastrophic, where you have an unexpected loss which occurs early in OT, such that you literally can't win. Plus, HC is a shoot-out type offense tailor made for the current OT format. We could have kept scoring all night it seemed.
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Post by ncaam on Sept 24, 2017 7:49:22 GMT -5
Btw how great was Peter tonight?
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Post by ncaam on Sept 24, 2017 7:49:50 GMT -5
...and Blaise Bell?
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Post by jflare on Sept 24, 2017 7:51:45 GMT -5
I feel like:
We went from a great start ( 2-1 and one of our best wins ever UNH ) to "not so much" and ( one of worst blown games ever ) When my baseball team scored 7 runs in the top of the 9th in a scoreless game only to give up 8 in the bottom of the ninth and lose. We keep finding excruciating ways to give away games ( How many one to four point losses since 2012 ( way too many ) This season may not go so well ( Monmouth, Yale, Colgate and Fordham look like real loss possibilities ) 5-6 would be awful We could be 4-0 ( two close losses as usual and mired at 2-2 ) We seem to win comfortable and lose close ( except Fordham last year !! ) Do any other teams score TDs twice on 4th downs at the end of regulation and OT to tie and still not not win the game by blowing conversions..
Just some random thoughts. I hope we win the next 7 and this is all a forgotten memory. We certainly are capable this year. Like I said we have good players we just do not win our share of games year in and year out.
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Post by lou on Sept 24, 2017 7:52:01 GMT -5
If you're about to kick a game winning extra point, after having a field goal attempt blocked by a very tough Dartmouth line, any reason why the holder and kicker can't move a few yards further back to get an extra few seconds to kick? Some have mentioned the Albany game, in that game UA had to cause a fumble or lose, they called 3 timeouts to plan it. Yesterday Dartmouth had to block the kick in order not to lose. So why do we play it like a normal PAT? It wasn't, the game was on the line, lots of pressure, need to do something to compensate, we didn't, and the play looked like a mess on the stream.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 24, 2017 7:57:21 GMT -5
If you're about to kick a game winning extra point, after having a field goal attempt blocked by a very tough Dartmouth line, any reason why the holder and kicker can't move a few yards further back to get an extra few seconds to kick? Some have mentioned the Albany game, in that game UA had to cause a fumble or lose, they called 3 timeouts to plan it. Yesterday Dartmouth had to block the kick in order not to lose. So why do we play it like a normal PAT? It wasn't, the game was on the line, lots of pressure, need to do something to compensate, we didn't, and the play looked like a mess on the stream. Let's not overthink this. It was a bad snap. Nothing more. Why change the routine for something we have done perfectly all season, and something that is one of the most routine plays in football? Would have been a terrible idea.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 24, 2017 7:58:15 GMT -5
Did we have any time outs left before the PAT ?
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Post by lou on Sept 24, 2017 7:58:39 GMT -5
Haha, good one! Overthink? It didn't work and we lost the game
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Post by joe on Sept 24, 2017 8:05:55 GMT -5
I don't think you ice own kicker with a time out before a routine XP. I'm not sure but I also don't think you move the holder back. I was actually on this unit many moons ago and don't recall this being discussed unless it was a private conversation among the snapper, holder, and kicker. This was a bad snap, and also as I recall the kicker started approaching the ball too soon. Signals got crossed somewhere. Another gut wrenching loss which falls squarely on the shoulders of the special teams unit, in particular the field goal and punt return units, despite outstanding play by both our O and D.
We (or I) underestimated Dartmouth. They're good. I also think it was to our disadvantage that they were only in their second game. I don't think their receiver Estrada was scouted because he'd only seen limited time thus far. Their jet sweep took a while for us to contain and that made a huge difference for them sustaining drives.
Good news is that we're still relatively healthy to get to 2-0 in the league and that's all that matters. Forget this one.
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Post by lou on Sept 24, 2017 8:22:27 GMT -5
Did we have any time outs left before the PAT ? Not sure about that
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Post by hcpride on Sept 24, 2017 8:22:59 GMT -5
On the bright side (and this is off the top of my head so forgive me if I am a bit off) we are the only Patriot League team to beat a CAA team this season and came the closest to being the only Patriot Team to beating an Ivy League team this season. (I know the various PL teams have not had equal opportunities.) Beyond an obvious indication of overall Patriot League weakness, this means we have a shot at the Patriot League Championship.
We also seem to have a very senior-heavy (5th year and otherwise) squad. Similar to baseball last year. That will be a great help this year.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 24, 2017 8:25:08 GMT -5
Btw how great was Peter tonight? Unfortunately not as strong as our running game and defense, which is the total opposite of what everyone expected coming into the year. ~170 yards through the air through 57 minutes isn't typically going to be enough to beat good teams. On the other side of the ball, the defense only allowed one drive over 47 yards (a 57 yard drive for a field goal) and only gave up touchdowns on drives when Dartmouth started the drive in HC territory. Another very impressive performance.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 24, 2017 8:37:41 GMT -5
Not disagreeing with your overall analysis of the defense, but they did give up the OT TD that beat us, albeit a 25 yard drive
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Post by lou on Sept 24, 2017 8:47:50 GMT -5
Not disagreeing with your overall analysis of the defense, but they did give up the OT TD that beat us, albeit a 25 yard drive Looked like we tried the same play as the one that Dartmouth used to win. Difference was their guy was 250 lbs and we couldn't stop him
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2017 9:14:47 GMT -5
Some day surely...but not quite yet.
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