|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 2, 2016 19:34:50 GMT -5
I am sure that Sarasota lives a life of asceticism and he finds the excesses of the Contemplative Center offensive. Rob, please respect his way of life and understand where he is coming from.
|
|
|
Post by beaven302 on Nov 3, 2016 0:39:58 GMT -5
According to Fr. K's book, fostering vocations was one of the main motivations for the establishment of HC. According to the book, 13% of the students opted for the clergy between 1843 and 1900, which isn't all that surprising since this was an era when many Catholic mothers longed to say someday, "My son the priest." However, it should be noted that a few pages later, Father K's book notes that students committed such infractions as smoking in restricted areas, drinking, reading "immoral" books, insubordination, oversleeping, fighting, and falling asleep in class.
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Nov 3, 2016 1:08:33 GMT -5
When I referred to St Joseph's Abbey as Cistercian, I should have more accurately described it as Trappist. Sorry.
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Nov 3, 2016 1:21:02 GMT -5
sader & KY- I do not lead a life of asceticism. I think I can legitimately say that the seven years I spent seriously studying and teaching Philosophy was a period of contemplation. But I didn't need a spa to do it in. Too bad there isn't a hot spring on the mountain in West Boylston. Otherwise the Contemplative Center could be a real money maker for HC.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 3, 2016 6:38:53 GMT -5
I apologize as I tried to figure out why it so bothers an avowed atheist who donates nothing to his Catholic college alma mater that the school built a place with a proven need for retreats for the many students, faculty and alums who would avail themselves of this Contemplative Center that was almost totally financed in advance by generous alums who DO see the purpose and need for this facility.
Perhaps if you come out of retirement and re-teach your logic course, you can use this as a case study of how someone in your position can think the way you do.
Alum + atheist + 0 $ donations = contemplative/retreat center + pi$$ed off
|
|
|
Post by hc6774 on Nov 3, 2016 7:10:26 GMT -5
...will look forward to '67 reunion dinner next year at the JCC not to be... but now having attended a meeting there, except for the view it is not suitable for a celebratory dinner of a 100+
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Nov 3, 2016 7:11:25 GMT -5
...will look forward to '67 reunion dinner next year at the JCC not to be... but now having attended a meeting there, except for the view it is not suitable for a celebratory dinner of a 100+ That is too bad. I was looking forward to dinner at that location (and, of course, the view).
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Nov 3, 2016 10:27:30 GMT -5
The JCC needs a pool, sauna and fitness center. Serious Question: If HC received a $90Million donation for a free standing center and endowed professorship in Secularism in Western Civilization, would HC accept the donation?
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 3, 2016 10:43:10 GMT -5
While we all know where you are coming from with this "serious [read: loaded] question," considering the lengths that Holy Cross goes to make people/students of other faiths welcome (take a look at non-Catholic events at the Contemplative Center), non-Catholic chaplain(s) for non-Catholics students, acceptance of the gay community with its support as an on-campus organization, I personally have little doubt Holy Cross would be happy to welcome the offer that you suggested.
Holy Cross is not nearly as "narrow" as you have come to believe.
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Nov 3, 2016 12:27:18 GMT -5
sader1970- Thanks for your reasoned reply (seriously). However, my key word was "secularism." The distinctions between Catholic, Jew, Gay, etc. have to do with ecumenism. But they have nothing to do with "secularism." To way way oversimplify, Secularism has to do with Religion vs. Non-Religion.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 3, 2016 13:07:45 GMT -5
Holy Cross is a Catholic college and should do everything it can to promote the religion. HC should not implement any program that seeks to undermine Catholicism
|
|
Jim
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 85
|
Post by Jim on Nov 3, 2016 13:21:20 GMT -5
I believe the College can-- perhaps, even should-- engage the questions and topics that may be counter to Catholicism and, in so doing, promote/ propagate the Faith.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 3, 2016 13:39:15 GMT -5
While I appreciate your efforts at clarification, I know what the word "secularism" means and if I didn't, I would have looked it up . . . but I didn't have to, trust me.
"Gay" has nothing to do with ecumenism. In case you need any further elucidation, here is what "ecumenism" means:
Ecumenism refers to efforts by Christians of different church traditions to develop closer relationships and better understandings. The term is also often used to refer to efforts towards the visible and organic unity of different Christian churches in some form.
I did not think that I needed to give every example but Muslims and Jews are not likely to be looking to unify with Catholics and those adherents are also present on Mt. St. James and welcomed.
My point, perhaps too specific or perhaps too general, was that Holy Cross would likely, but not definitely, accept such a proposal because while being a Catholic institution, it is an institution of learning and that includes the understanding of differing perspectives and why the College is much more diverse than in your day and mine both in the student body and the faculty and the course of study.
The Jesuits, still a vital element of the current College, have never shied away from studying, understanding and, when necessary, confronting other schools of thought. That would include secularism, IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Nov 3, 2016 13:41:16 GMT -5
Holy Cross is a Catholic college and should do everything it can to promote the religion. HC should not implement any program that seeks to undermine Catholicism KY- Wow. Are you serious? Perfectly anti-rationalist. Sure sounds like a seminary to me. I wish its mission were the pursuit of truth with no constraints.
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Nov 3, 2016 13:47:23 GMT -5
The Jesuits, still a vital element of the current College, have never shied away from studying, understanding and, when necessary, confronting other schools of thought. That would include secularism, IMHO. Include secularism? Although I can't prove it, I would bet that if you peruse the entire history of the topics treated in HC's Religion in Culture Center you would find very little, if any, serious attention to secularism, atheism, etc. I would be happy to be proven wrong. I would say the same for the curriculum of HC's Philosophy Department.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 3, 2016 14:01:49 GMT -5
OK, you asked a serious question, at least you said it was serious, and then when given what I hoped was a serious and reasoned response as to why I believed Holy Cross would accept your proposal, you basically come back and say you don't believe it but would be happy to be proven wrong.
First, yours was a hypothetical case so no one is going to "prove it" right or wrong. Second, I believe your mind was made up beforehand but I can't prove that either. I am not going to do your work for you about what or what is not taught about secularism or atheism at Holy Cross. If you are interested, you put the work in.
I'm done with this subject.
|
|
Jim
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 85
|
Post by Jim on Nov 3, 2016 14:10:02 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 3, 2016 14:36:26 GMT -5
Holy Cross is a Catholic college and should do everything it can to promote the religion. HC should not implement any program that seeks to undermine Catholicism KY- Wow. Are you serious? Perfectly anti-rationalist. Sure sounds like a seminary to me. I wish its mission were the pursuit of truth with no constraints. Of course I'm serious. What else should a Catholic college promote---it's part of the mission of the school. I guess that is something that you do not understand: organizations have missions and must do everything in support of those missions. I guess you are hoping that Holy Cross would "pursue the truth" and conclude that there is no God and that the College should then decide to become an atheist institution?
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Nov 3, 2016 17:00:33 GMT -5
KY- No. Only wishing that HC would genuinely expose its students to the entire range of Faith-based and secular thought Let students make up their own minds. The opposite can only be indoctrination. We wouldn't want that, would we?
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Nov 3, 2016 17:03:18 GMT -5
Jim- Thanks for the link. I went through the entire curriculum of the Philosophy Dept. Nary a word about secularism. Why am I not surprised. Looked at the 20 or so presentations at the McFarland Center this year. Same thing.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Nov 3, 2016 17:15:10 GMT -5
Just curious What do secular colleges offer ? Harvard, .Yale, Princeton
|
|
|
Post by sarasota on Nov 3, 2016 18:47:21 GMT -5
Hoops- Thanks for the question. Here is the course description of a course offered to undergraduates at Harvard College entitled "Anthropology of Religion." This kind of a course will never ever be offered at Holy Cross:
"What happened to religion in the modern world? We start off by exploring traditional anthropological themes, such as animism, magic, and ritual, while paying particular attention to the classic secularization thesis advanced by social scientists. We will then focus on the crucial contemporary issues, such as debates on secularism, globalization and commodification of religion, body and sexuality, secular eschatologies, such as transhumanism, and the emergence of "new age" spirituality. This course is not a survey of specific religions, but a theoretical introduction to the main themes in the anthropological study of religion."
This matter could be the subject of a thesis, but my very brief contention is that at HC, Catholicism is seen as a Divine gift and absolutely true based on Faith. HC would never allow its students to address the question of whether Catholicism might instead be a wholly anthropological phenomenon. Way too dangerous to the Faith.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Nov 3, 2016 20:44:11 GMT -5
Did you see the offerings in the Religious Studies Dept at HC ? More non catholic than catholic
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 17, 2016 12:14:06 GMT -5
|
|