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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 15, 2017 19:33:54 GMT -5
NAD - I was at the Yale game and I agree the effort on the field was the most lackluster I have seen since 2006, by a landslide. Just four weeks ago, I was getting roasted on AnyGivenSaturday for sandbagging when I ranked Holy Cross 23rd in my poll and below UNH, even after we had just picked them apart for 50 points (others had us as high as 16).
I am shocked that a small school like Holy Cross would fire a coach mid-season like this, especially when on paper we still have the opportunity to compete for a championship. But my hope is that it is a sign that NP will wait at nothing to turn the ship around. I never thought I would see the day where TG's overall and PL records would fall below .500 -- just shows how bad the past five years have been.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 15, 2017 20:10:32 GMT -5
NAD - I was at the Yale game and I agree the effort on the field was the most lackluster I have seen since 2006, by a landslide. Just four weeks ago, I was getting roasted on AnyGivenSaturday for sandbagging when I ranked Holy Cross 23rd in my poll and below UNH, even after we had just picked them apart for 50 points (others had us as high as 16). I am shocked that a small school like Holy Cross would fire a coach mid-season like this, especially when on paper we still have the opportunity to compete for a championship. But my hope is that it is a sign that NP will wait at nothing to turn the ship around. I never thought I would see the day where TG's overall and PL records would fall below .500 -- just shows how bad the past five years have been. Unsurprisingly, the Patriot League Football Championship is not a consideration (as evidenced by the firing). Who would consider that a great or job-saving accomplishment? Nobody cares that TG was very competitive in the weak PL this year - 1 victory and 1 very close loss. One PL team and only one PL team has a .500 overall record (3-3). Embarrassing OOC losses across the board. No reason to think next year will be better. There is absolutely no way the Luth and the program upgrades are aimed at just winning the weak Patriot League...we must be aiming at substantial OOC wins and FBS competitive games.
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Post by jkh67 on Oct 15, 2017 20:32:27 GMT -5
Unfortunately, lots of useless internal navel gazing on this thread at this point. The main message is that TPTB finally decided that enough is enough. It's only unfortunate that it took them so long to come to such an obvious conclusion. Gilmore's contract should never have been renewed in the first place. How he survived after the Fordham debacle at Yankee Stadium last November I'll never understand. It showed a total lack of pride...or (dare I say it?) interest... in HC football as an integral part of the College. That's on TPTB...including ADNP who beefed up the schedule big time, but did nothing to resolve obvious coaching deficiencies. The next few years are on him 100%.
I don't know if it's possible to revive HC football at this point. What is clear is that the head coaching decision needs to be top drawer. We shall see.
One of the problems here is that the HC President is not really an HC guy. He has no real appreciation of the role that football and basketball have had in the history and ethos of Holy Cross. Sad!
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Post by hchoops on Oct 15, 2017 20:47:35 GMT -5
He has very good ears
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Post by crosspride on Oct 15, 2017 21:53:17 GMT -5
I've heard two things in this thread: 1. Gilmore was likely fired before the Yale game. 2. The team was lifeless, and it looked like they quit on their Coach in the Yale game. Connect the dots. Not saying Gilmore didn't deserve to be let go, but it shouldn't have happened mid season.
The offense has been far and away the biggest problem this year. The Coach who has been leading them is now the interim head coach. Who hired Coach Rock, by the way?
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Post by JRGNYR on Oct 15, 2017 22:43:48 GMT -5
When was the last time an HC football coach was relieved of his duties midseason? I can’t think of the last time.
TG was here a long time. He was always nice to me although I haven’t talked to him in a number of years. This is a tough way to go out but this is, even at HC, a business. I thank him for what he did for the program - it was a mess in 2003, in desperate need of a coach to change the culture and after several near misses 2009 happened and it was wonderful. It’s unfortunate there weren’t more PL titles during that time. There were opportunities.
I wish him the best.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 15, 2017 22:48:33 GMT -5
When was the last time an HC football coach was relieved of his duties midseason? I can’t think of the last time. TG was here a long time. He was always nice to me although I haven’t talked to him in a number of years. This is a tough way to go out but this is, even at HC, a business. I thank him for what he did for the program - it was a mess in 2003, in desperate need of a coach to change the culture and after several near misses 2009 happened and it was wonderful. It’s unfortunate there weren’t more PL titles during that time. There were opportunities. I wish him the best. Guy Salvucci took ovah for Eddie Doherty at the end of the 1975 season I believe.
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Post by HC92 on Oct 15, 2017 22:55:05 GMT -5
No inside info here but I doubt that ADNP needed the ok of the "well-heeled" alumn to pull the plug. There is no way this decision was made by anyone at HC without, at the very least, consultation of "well-heeled alums" (whomevah they may be....I bet they have really good tailgates too...not my Bud Light and dogs tailgate ) Dilly Dilly!
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 15, 2017 23:03:01 GMT -5
For those who think TG was launched before the Yale game- consider this: why would Charles Bare put him on the coaches show Thursday nite if the firing was already in the works, and why would TG have agreed to go on if he knew he was out?
To me this does not look like a decision premeditated prior to the game.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 15, 2017 23:09:40 GMT -5
Mmmm...we'll probably nevah know the whole truth here (and ultimately it matters not one whit) but that was a team effort yesterday that looked like they knew the "jig was up."
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 15, 2017 23:13:00 GMT -5
Well if the "jig was up" it wasn't until sometime on Friday at the earliest.
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Post by JRGNYR on Oct 15, 2017 23:13:20 GMT -5
When was the last time an HC football coach was relieved of his duties midseason? I can’t think of the last time. TG was here a long time. He was always nice to me although I haven’t talked to him in a number of years. This is a tough way to go out but this is, even at HC, a business. I thank him for what he did for the program - it was a mess in 2003, in desperate need of a coach to change the culture and after several near misses 2009 happened and it was wonderful. It’s unfortunate there weren’t more PL titles during that time. There were opportunities. I wish him the best. Guy Salvucci took ovah for Eddie Doherty at the end of the 1975 season I believe. Is that mentioned in the media guide? I can’t seem to access it on my phone. Not a huge deal at this point. Was just curious.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 15, 2017 23:20:02 GMT -5
Funny you should ask, just looked to confirm and couldn't find anything....I'm nearly certain that was the case though. Salvucci was the acting head coach for at least the last couple games of the 1975 season....Doherty was ill/burnt out (not 100% certain)...Wheelwright came in the next year.
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Post by sader81 on Oct 16, 2017 5:56:05 GMT -5
Funny you should ask, just looked to confirm and couldn't find anything....I'm nearly certain that was the case though. Salvucci was the acting head coach for at least the last couple games of the 1975 season....Doherty was ill/burnt out (not 100% certain)...Wheelwright came in the next year. That is my recollection as well. Doherty was in ill health, and returned to Arizona where he recovered and eventually returned to coaching.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 16, 2017 6:28:04 GMT -5
For those who think TG was launched before the Yale game- consider this: why would Charles Bare put him on the coaches show Thursday nite if the firing was already in the works, and why would TG have agreed to go on if he knew he was out? To me this does not look like a decision premeditated prior to the game. Agree. If the decision was premeditated, why would they let a "dead man walking" be in charge of the HC sideline for what was supposed to be a big game? Doesn't make sense. The effort wasn't there because the team was unprepared and unmotivated. And what if TG won that game 32-0? Was he still toast on Sunday morning? We'll never know but my best guess is that the decision was made during/after the game on Saturday, not prior to. Yale was the final nail in the coffin.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 16, 2017 7:37:07 GMT -5
The voy forum moderator posted on Saturday night that Gilmore was gone at season's end. That was posted before any post here. So Yale knew it on Saturday.
And ADNP cannot fire the football coach mid-season without the okay of Fr. B, and probably several others of TPTB. ADNP in an interview said he had been monitoring the team closely for several weeks and was not happy. So there were ongoing conversations between ADNP and several of TPTB before the Yale game.
I believe ADNP used the phrase 'spiraling downward'.
If the team had beaten Yale, then CTG gets to coach some more. If the team recovered enough to win the PL championship, he's back next year.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 16, 2017 7:58:15 GMT -5
The voy forum moderator posted on Saturday night that Gilmore was gone at season's end. That was posted before any post here. So Yale knew it on Saturday. And ADNP cannot fire the football coach mid-season without the okay of Fr. B, and probably several others of TPTB. ADNP in an interview said he had been monitoring the team closely for several weeks and was not happy. So there were ongoing conversations between ADNP and several of TPTB before the Yale game. I believe ADNP used the phrase 'spiraling downward'. If the team had beaten Yale, then CTG gets to coach some more. If the team recovered enough to win the PL championship, he's back next year. I suspect the team was aware of that prior to opening kickoff at Yale. Which speaks volumes if you connect the dots. Any possibility there were some internal team/coach issues (in addition to the substantial and decisive dissatisfaction brewing at the Fr. B, NP, Alum, etc. level) ] going on that outsiders might be unaware of?
(Agree with everything you wrote here PP)
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 16, 2017 8:16:24 GMT -5
? The voy forum moderator posted on Saturday night that Gilmore was gone at season's end. That was posted before any post here. So Yale knew it on Saturday. And ADNP cannot fire the football coach mid-season without the okay of Fr. B, and probably several others of TPTB. ADNP in an interview said he had been monitoring the team closely for several weeks and was not happy. So there were ongoing conversations between ADNP and several of TPTB before the Yale game. I believe ADNP used the phrase 'spiraling downward'. If the team had beaten Yale, then CTG gets to coach some more. If the team recovered enough to win the PL championship, he's back next year. How would the voy forum moderator have found out this information? If he really "knew it", i.e. that CTG would be let go this week, wouldn't he have said "Gilmore is coaching his last game"? Perhaps his statement was more a prediction than the revelation of insider knowledge.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 16, 2017 9:01:34 GMT -5
? The voy forum moderator posted on Saturday night that Gilmore was gone at season's end. That was posted before any post here. So Yale knew it on Saturday. And ADNP cannot fire the football coach mid-season without the okay of Fr. B, and probably several others of TPTB. ADNP in an interview said he had been monitoring the team closely for several weeks and was not happy. So there were ongoing conversations between ADNP and several of TPTB before the Yale game. I believe ADNP used the phrase 'spiraling downward'. If the team had beaten Yale, then CTG gets to coach some more. If the team recovered enough to win the PL championship, he's back next year. How would the voy forum moderator have found out this information? If he really "knew it", i.e. that CTG would be let go this week, wouldn't he have said "Gilmore is coaching his last game"? Perhaps his statement was more a prediction than the revelation of insider knowledge. Sorry I have a hard time believing that TG was fired prior to the Yale game. NP is not stupid enough (I hope) to allow a coach who has already been fired to man the sideline. What would have happened if we won, then? You're going to announce firing a guy who just the day beforebeat one of the best teams in the Ivy on the road, a team we have a 4-27 record against?
I do think there is some credence to an in-house mutiny or that perhaps Gilmore "lost" the team mid-season. Could it have been a falling out with Pujals and some of the seniors? Who knows.
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Post by wayback on Oct 16, 2017 9:10:01 GMT -5
I believe that coach Gilmore was going to be fired at the end of the season. The decision to remove him in the middle of the season was not due to lost games, but that he had lost the team.
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Post by hc6774 on Oct 16, 2017 9:11:38 GMT -5
It's possible that someone close to NP communicated to TG before the game that he needed to win it... a task he knew was not likely... TG communicated this someone who communicated it to the Yale staff before or after the game, hence the Sat nite post.
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Post by 6sader7 on Oct 16, 2017 9:13:30 GMT -5
The amount of irrelevant speculation on this thread is staggering.
I think almost everyone on this board feels that it was time for a change to be made.
A change has been made -- The only relevant speculation pertains to who the next Head Coach will be.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 16, 2017 9:43:14 GMT -5
When was the last time an HC football coach was relieved of his duties midseason? I can’t think of the last time. TG was here a long time. He was always nice to me although I haven’t talked to him in a number of years. This is a tough way to go out but this is, even at HC, a business. I thank him for what he did for the program - it was a mess in 2003, in desperate need of a coach to change the culture and after several near misses 2009 happened and it was wonderful. It’s unfortunate there weren’t more PL titles during that time. There were opportunities. I wish him the best. Guy Salvucci took ovah for Eddie Doherty at the end of the 1975 season I believe. Actually, believe it or not, his first name was Gay, as in Gayton. The name's current meaning wasn't in vogue when he got his nickname. Doherty was doing terribly but he was really sick (emphysema or the precursor of that) as well. He was not in the greatest health when he came here; Arizona was a much better environment for what ailed him. I think TPTB would have stuck with him a bit longer if he was healthy and wanted to stay. Would have been a mistake, IMHO. HIs recruiting was overall below standards needed to have a decent team vis-à-vis the (stronger than now) schedule he was playing. And he had something like 75 scholarships too. The program wasn't on life support when he left, but it was still not in good shape.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 16, 2017 9:45:38 GMT -5
Guy Salvucci took ovah for Eddie Doherty at the end of the 1975 season I believe. Is that mentioned in the media guide? I can’t seem to access it on my phone. Not a huge deal at this point. Was just curious. And Coach Salvucci rallied the troops in the final game...losing 24-14 to BC, down 17-14 in the 4th quarter; was no disgrace.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 16, 2017 10:09:30 GMT -5
I don't know from whom the voy poster (who I believe is the moderator) got the info about Gilmore's tenure, but he posted it. Several Yale and Dartmouth posters had posted wondering what on earth had happened to the Holy Cross team, and voy vey posted that information. That forum follows Gilmore rather closely because he previously coached at two Ivies, and was the source of much speculation that he would take the Yale head coaching job, and also the Columbia job.
I assume ADNP was in New Haven. Maybe he went to Starbucks with the Yale AD. Maybe he sat in the press booth with the Yale AD. And maybe ADNP never said a word to anybody at Yale. Maybe it was an assistant coach at HC who talked.to someone at Yale.
I have reason to believe ADNP was unhappy with how the Lafayette game was lost, and that may have led to a crisis in confidence.
When a parent of a recruit reports that CTG seemed disengaged in a meeting with prospective recruits, which seems very unlike CTG from reports I've read (I've never met the man), that may indicate that something is not quite right.
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