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Post by longsuffering on Jun 27, 2019 15:26:29 GMT -5
He somehow gained a guardian angel at Fordham because black box data showed he was speeding between 75-99 mph in his pajamas when his state police unmarked cruiser went off the road without the brakes being applied first. The car was absolutely mangled but Tim's pajamas weren't even wrinkled and he walked away uninjured.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 27, 2019 15:59:23 GMT -5
Hmm, so you guys seem to be saying there is no chance for HC getting into Hockey East. And here I thought it was almost a done deal. I am making a new resolution not to believe those 3rd hand rumors anymore.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 28, 2019 5:36:49 GMT -5
School ranked by Average Attendance Men's Ice Hockey / attendance as percent of capacity
UMass 4876, 58 percent capacity (hoops attendance 2994) UNH 4735, 73 percent (hoops attendance 481) UMass Lowell 4615, 77 percent (hoops attendance 1,119) BC 4399, 56 percent (hoops attendance 5160) UConn 4139, 46 percent (hoops attendance 7829) BU 3830, 61 percent (hoops attendance 694) Maine, 3793, 74 percent (hoops attendance 1028) Vermont 3503, 87 percent (hoops attendance 2929) Northeastern 2460, 52 percent (hoops attendance 1,142) Providence 2319, 77 percent (hoops attendance 9,547) Merrimack 2090, 82 percent (hoops attendance 432)
(UConn football average attendance 20,924, UMass football average attendance 10,385) . IMO, UConn is the only football school where hoops attendance does markedly better than ice hockey. BC's hoops attendance is near the bottom of the ACC, averaging about 1,000 more than lowly Pitt.
Again, IMO, for HC and HE (HC would have the smallest undergraduate enrollment) its a case of pick your poison. Which of the three sports (football, hoops, ice hockey) do you focus on? Again, other than UConn, no HE school has found a way to realize solid attendance (given enrollment and conference affiliation) for all three sports.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Jun 28, 2019 6:30:08 GMT -5
Many believe that Cliff Rucker and the Railers are the reason why it has been so difficult to get Holy Cross into Hockey East. That is only partially true. The true unraveling of our situation began when HE was publicly open to adding a new member after Notre Dame's departure. At that time, members of the Worcester City Council were in favor of the transition to HE, the DCU center certainly was, Mayor Petty was, and HC enjoyed a strong backing from a familiar face in City Manager, Ed Augustus. Although Nathan Pine / FTB were seen as "anti-hockey", they too were in strong favor of the potential move. It did not stand a chance. Cliff Rucker donated to the campaign of Deval Patrick and Tim Murray. Tim Murray, for several reasons including a horrific car crash that was most likely the result of driving while impaired, stepped down as Lieutenant Governor. He then became head of the local Worcester business group where he is responsible for bringing more business to Worcester. Tim & Cliff made a handshake and Tim promised Cliff he would do everything in his power to make sure Cliff did not have to compete with a college hockey team. And don't forget here that it wasn't just Cliff, but even when he was Mayor of Worcester, Tim Murray has had a passionate, passionate dislike for Holy Cross. I was hoping the HC's Government Affairs Liaison, a former Deval Patrick staffer and associate of Murray's, would talk some sense into him but I guess not... Tim Murray resigned as Lt. Governor in 2013. The Worcester Sharks were in Worcester until 2015. The Railers first game was in October of 2017. Maybe Tim Murray threw his support behind Cliff Rucker as head of the Chamber of Commerce, but not as Lt. Governor.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 28, 2019 8:26:13 GMT -5
Yes, I would agree Blossom wouldn't have the Gibbons employment claim (for lack of a better description) to deal with; on the other hand, it was made pretty clear that whoever the new AD was, it was his/her responsibility to make sure that Gibbons' successor was the right person for the program going forward.
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alcovefan
Climbing Mt. St. James
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Posts: 54
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Post by alcovefan on Jun 28, 2019 10:00:48 GMT -5
Again, IMO, for HC and HE (HC would have the smallest undergraduate enrollment) its a case of pick your poison. Which of the three sports (football, hoops, ice hockey) do you focus on? Again, other than UConn, no HE school has found a way to realize solid attendance (given enrollment and conference affiliation) for all three sports. Drop football.
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Post by shooterflatch on Jun 28, 2019 10:14:48 GMT -5
Again, IMO, for HC and HE (HC would have the smallest undergraduate enrollment) its a case of pick your poison. Which of the three sports (football, hoops, ice hockey) do you focus on? Again, other than UConn, no HE school has found a way to realize solid attendance (given enrollment and conference affiliation) for all three sports. Drop football. Now we’re talking!
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Post by gks on Jun 28, 2019 12:43:28 GMT -5
School ranked by Average Attendance Men's Ice Hockey / attendance as percent of capacityUMass 4876, 58 percent capacity (hoops attendance 2994) UNH 4735, 73 percent (hoops attendance 481) UMass Lowell 4615, 77 percent (hoops attendance 1,119) BC 4399, 56 percent (hoops attendance 5160) UConn 4139, 46 percent (hoops attendance 7829) BU 3830, 61 percent (hoops attendance 694) Maine, 3793, 74 percent (hoops attendance 1028) Vermont 3503, 87 percent (hoops attendance 2929) Northeastern 2460, 52 percent (hoops attendance 1,142) Providence 2319, 77 percent (hoops attendance 9,547) Merrimack 2090, 82 percent (hoops attendance 432) (UConn football average attendance 20,924, UMass football average attendance 10,385) . IMO, UConn is the only football school where hoops attendance does markedly better than ice hockey. BC's hoops attendance is near the bottom of the ACC, averaging about 1,000 more than lowly Pitt. Again, IMO, for HC and HE (HC would have the smallest undergraduate enrollment) its a case of pick your poison. Which of the three sports (football, hoops, ice hockey) do you focus on? Again, other than UConn, no HE school has found a way to realize solid attendance (given enrollment and conference affiliation) for all three sports. Correct me if I'm wrong but HC already has a men's hockey team don't they? If those players are already included in the enrollment numbers what does HC having the lowest enrollment have to do with anything?
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 28, 2019 13:43:51 GMT -5
Again, IMO, for HC and HE (HC would have the smallest undergraduate enrollment) its a case of pick your poison. Which of the three sports (football, hoops, ice hockey) do you focus on? Again, other than UConn, no HE school has found a way to realize solid attendance (given enrollment and conference affiliation) for all three sports. Drop football. That comment activated my defibrillator.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 28, 2019 15:07:44 GMT -5
As a counterpoint to this position, I just sent my donation to the Holy Cross Gridiron Club.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 28, 2019 15:30:02 GMT -5
gks, lowest enrollment in HE if it were a member of HE.
Only two schools in HE have an undergraduate enrollment under 5,000: Providence at 4316, and Merrimack at 3653. Only one public university in HE has an undergraduate enrollment under 10,000, Maine at 9365. (Boston College's enrollment is about the same as Maine's. NU at about 20,000, BU at about 17,000.)
Every institution counts students in the stands in their attendance figures.
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Post by spenser on Jun 28, 2019 16:19:43 GMT -5
Just to close the circle on the Tim Murray/Cliff Rucker theory that some have, a search of the Massachusetts Campaign and Political Finance web site reveals no contributions to Tim Murray or Deval Patrick by anyone named Cliff/Clifford Rucker or a spouse. Lots of money to the current Governor and Lieutenant Governor though.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 28, 2019 16:34:57 GMT -5
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Post by gks on Jun 28, 2019 16:40:02 GMT -5
Cliff Rucker came in a made many investments in Worcester. Bought a few buildings (one which just happens to house the Chamber of Commerce which Tim Murray heads), brought pro hockey back, built the Canal District rinks, etc. He's been a good corporate citizen for Worcester. That is a fact. I have no problem with him getting a little unofficial exclusivity when it came to DCU dates in the early days of the Railers. Railers in their two years have been a good team for the Worcester and are very involved in community events. More than any of the other hockey teams that were here before. Hartford has proven that a pro team can co-exist with a college team. If anything is slowing this up my guess it would be HC dragging their feet.
Plus...Word on the street was that the former AD went into talks with the city about using the DCU for HE he didn't carry himself very well turning a lot of people off.
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Post by matunuck on Jun 28, 2019 21:16:30 GMT -5
I remember some folks on this board claiming HC would never bring back football scholarships. HC men will eventual move to HE.
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Post by Tom on Jun 29, 2019 7:28:57 GMT -5
Many believe that Cliff Rucker and the Railers are the reason why it has been so difficult to get Holy Cross into Hockey East. That is only partially true. The true unraveling of our situation began when HE was publicly open to adding a new member after Notre Dame's departure. At that time, members of the Worcester City Council were in favor of the transition to HE, the DCU center certainly was, Mayor Petty was, and HC enjoyed a strong backing from a familiar face in City Manager, Ed Augustus. Although Nathan Pine / FTB were seen as "anti-hockey", they too were in strong favor of the potential move. It did not stand a chance. Cliff Rucker donated to the campaign of Deval Patrick and Tim Murray. Tim Murray, for several reasons including a horrific car crash that was most likely the result of driving while impaired, stepped down as Lieutenant Governor. He then became head of the local Worcester business group where he is responsible for bringing more business to Worcester. Tim & Cliff made a handshake and Tim promised Cliff he would do everything in his power to make sure Cliff did not have to compete with a college hockey team. And don't forget here that it wasn't just Cliff, but even when he was Mayor of Worcester, Tim Murray has had a passionate, passionate dislike for Holy Cross. I was hoping the HC's Government Affairs Liaison, a former Deval Patrick staffer and associate of Murray's, would talk some sense into him but I guess not... When Murray had his accident two years before he resigned, he requested and was administered a breathalyzer at the scene. He passed the test. At the time of his resignation he was under investigation for violation of campaign finance laws. After he resigned, there wasn't much talk about the investigation.. IIRC, when the word about HE became public, the Worcester Telegram reported that the Railers had a right of refusal on all ice shows in their lease and they would exercise that right to not allow regular HE games in the Centrum If Murray in his role as head of the Chamber of Commerce, worked against HC in favor of his buddy Cliff Rucker, that would still be kind of like Cliff Rucker being the reason it was difficult of HC to get into HE
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Post by HC92 on Jun 29, 2019 7:53:16 GMT -5
Not sure why you’re quoting me. The seven schools in question have all submitted formal letters to their current conference telling it that they will be withdrawing in two years as they are required to do under conference bylaws. HC is not yet in that position with regard to joining a new conference and therefore will not be giving public updates on their efforts. From your article: As current members of the Western Collegiate Hockey Association (WCHA) men's league, the schools have independently submitted formal Letters of Notice to the conference office, initiating the withdrawal process in accordance with WCHA Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws. The institutions will continue to play in the WCHA during the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 seasons
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 29, 2019 10:43:01 GMT -5
The HE admissions committee won't look at the AHA standings will they? The league champion AIC yellow jackets who play at the Mass Mutual Center (Springfield's DCU) are in the HE footprint, why wouldn't they have first dibs to move up?
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 29, 2019 11:04:53 GMT -5
Actually just looked at the HE membership. Worcester is an hour closer than Springfield to all members except Vermont, and perhaps we are a half hour closer for UConn. Amazingly, HE men's hockey is very Boston/Eastern New England focused and Worcester would be a very convenient location for a new team. But our (lack of) success in the AHA should be a concern. HC women had a long winning tradition at a lower level before moving up. It wouldn't be unreasonable for TPTB to put the onus on the AD to develop a consistent winning program in the AHA before considering a move up.
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Post by HC92 on Jun 29, 2019 11:51:31 GMT -5
The HE admissions committee won't look at the AHA standings will they? The league champion AIC yellow jackets who play at the Mass Mutual Center (Springfield's DCU) are in the HE footprint, why wouldn't they have first dibs to move up? Have you ever been to AIC?
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 29, 2019 12:03:53 GMT -5
I blinked and missed it.
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Post by gks on Jun 29, 2019 12:12:19 GMT -5
Many believe that Cliff Rucker and the Railers are the reason why it has been so difficult to get Holy Cross into Hockey East. That is only partially true. The true unraveling of our situation began when HE was publicly open to adding a new member after Notre Dame's departure. At that time, members of the Worcester City Council were in favor of the transition to HE, the DCU center certainly was, Mayor Petty was, and HC enjoyed a strong backing from a familiar face in City Manager, Ed Augustus. Although Nathan Pine / FTB were seen as "anti-hockey", they too were in strong favor of the potential move. It did not stand a chance. Cliff Rucker donated to the campaign of Deval Patrick and Tim Murray. Tim Murray, for several reasons including a horrific car crash that was most likely the result of driving while impaired, stepped down as Lieutenant Governor. He then became head of the local Worcester business group where he is responsible for bringing more business to Worcester. Tim & Cliff made a handshake and Tim promised Cliff he would do everything in his power to make sure Cliff did not have to compete with a college hockey team. And don't forget here that it wasn't just Cliff, but even when he was Mayor of Worcester, Tim Murray has had a passionate, passionate dislike for Holy Cross. I was hoping the HC's Government Affairs Liaison, a former Deval Patrick staffer and associate of Murray's, would talk some sense into him but I guess not... When Murray had his accident two years before he resigned, he requested and was administered a breathalyzer at the scene. He passed the test. At the time of his resignation he was under investigation for violation of campaign finance laws. After he resigned, there wasn't much talk about the investigation.. IIRC, when the word about HE became public, the Worcester Telegram reported that the Railers had a right of refusal on all ice shows in their lease and they would exercise that right to not allow regular HE games in the Centrum If Murray in his role as head of the Chamber of Commerce, worked against HC in favor of his buddy Cliff Rucker, that would still be kind of like Cliff Rucker being the reason it was difficult of HC to get into HE I don't blame Rucker one bit for asking for some exclusivity. I would too if I was making that investment. Negotiations could have been done in a way that made both parties happy. This obviously hasn't happened yet.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 29, 2019 12:32:29 GMT -5
AIC enrollment is too small. Couldn't afford HE. _______________________________________
The financial burden of HE is high for any private institution.
The NCAA allows 18 scollies for M and W ice hockey. For the men, the scollie cap of 18 is second only to football, --for those schools that play football For the women, the cap of 18 is tied for #1 with track & cross country combined.
Expenses M/W ice hockey 2017-18 $ in millions HE private schools ranked BC 4.3 / 2.0 Providence 3.7 / 2.1 BU 3.5 / 2.3 Northeastern 3.0 / 2,2 Merrimack 2.5 / 1.6
HE public schools ranked UConn 3.0 / 1,8 UMass Amherst 3.0 / 0 UMass Lowell 2.9 / 0 UNH 2.7 / 1.8 Vermont 2.2 / 1.5 Maine 2.0 / 1.0
Why are private schools' expenses universally higher (except for Div II Merrimack)?
Cost of attendance at HC is $70,000 plus. Cost of attendance at Univ of Vermont $32,000 in-state, $57,000 out of state. 18 full scollies for men at HC would cost $1.25M
Expenses M/W ice hockey 2017-18 $ in millions Colgate 2.2 / 1.9 Notre Dame 4.4 / 0
Why does ice hockey at Colgate, playing in the ECAC, cost less?
Likely, a big reason is that Colgate is not funding 18 full scollies. Most of the ECAC members are IL or Div III, which offer no merit aid for ice hockey. Colgate may be rostering 10-12 full scollie equivalents, even if its allowed 18. The ECAC has no public universities as members, so. for its members, there is no cost disadvantage with a public university when it comes to competing on fin aid.
However, if HC wants to be competitive in HE, its clear to me that HC would have to offer 18 full scollie equivalents. (Ice hockey is not a fin aid headcount sport.)
HC in the HE would join BC as the only private schools playing Div I football.
A sidenote: HC's football expenses (with a 60 scollie cap) in 2017-18 were $2 million higher than the University of Maine's (with a 63 scollie cap). Additional note: Probably, the M's expenses at both UMass schools would be less if the schools had women's ice hockey. As it is, any operating expenses associated with operating the rink are loaded fully onto the men's teams. If so, UConn's M's costs are probably higher than they would otherwise be because of rink rental costs.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 29, 2019 14:35:45 GMT -5
Fabulous facts and figures that answers my query about AIC and HE, although HC 92's question answered it, too. Both AIC hockey and Nichols basketball electrified their college communities with their post season runs in the AHA and the lower D-3 Commonwealth Coast Conference. We look for ways to compete at the highest levels, but actually the Holy Cross community gets electrified when we make an NCAA run out of the Patriot League or AHA, too.
Let's get the overall winning percentage above .500 in the major sports at least under the ADMB administration and go from there.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 29, 2019 16:51:20 GMT -5
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