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Post by bigfan on Dec 23, 2017 7:53:34 GMT -5
We will not get better until we leave the PL and start recruiting better athletes. What a waste of money on the Luth if we stay in the PL. Indoor practice football and a basketball court will not bring us better athletes, we need to upgrade the programs. The PL is killing our athletics.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 23, 2017 8:01:12 GMT -5
36-28 rebound deficit...but also lost turnover battle, 16-12. Butler and Benzan with 3 each, others all had 1 or 2 (Green's one and Niego's two stick out to me).
Here's an oddity: unless the box score is in error, Clareth didn't start. So HC's starters outscored Siena's, 41-24 but the bench was 24-47.
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Post by jflare on Dec 23, 2017 8:07:41 GMT -5
How did our athletic teams fall so far. Our Football and Basketball programs are really bad. There is a long way to go to even get back to some sort of respectability. I hope we can do it at some point over the next five years or so. Right now, it's bad....
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Post by cfrivals on Dec 23, 2017 8:36:17 GMT -5
I have made this comment more than once, RW didn’t have blue chip recruits but he had tough kids. Those teams put fear in their opponents. We won on defense and rebounding. We don’t have that anymore. The PO ‘s Time has past. The game is changing. Shorter shot clock hurts the P.O. Also let’s face it, for the most part we never see it run anyway! The nobody on the offensive glass mentality, totally makes no sense to me and hasn’t for three years. Outside of that cute 5 game run when we caught the PL sleeping, we have been a pretty bad program for three years and could lose 20 games this year. Do we keep changing BB coaches? There are many problems with sports at HC and the Luth center with its 90 yard indoor football field will not fix. The school has to set an identity of what it wants to be in athletics and stop this shirade of division 1, I mean division 3 athletics.
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Post by possum on Dec 23, 2017 8:36:35 GMT -5
After the 2-0 start I was hopeful that this season wouldn't be as bad as I feared coming in to it. At this point, those wins look like fools gold as we are not getting better and the same problems on defense and rebounding persist. The OOC schedule is now over and we still haven't settled on a stable rotation. From game to game there are huge fluctuations in playing time and effectiveness. Last game Grandison looked great as the leading scorer and tonight he played 9 minutes and didn't score, Butler had a few good games then backtracked last night. Floyd has been the most consistent player and it seems we ignore him in the first half of games. Green's play has leveled off and although Benzan led in scoring last night he has been up and down as well. At this point, we don't have a go to player to bail us out when things aren't going well. The hope was that Charles would be the guy but for whatever reason he has been a non factor for most of the year. Last night no field goals and no rebounds in 18 minutes of play. If he's hurt don't know why he wasn't shutdown to get healthy for PL play but that option is gone now. If he's not hurt that's a bigger problem as it indicates he is not the veteran presence this young team needs so much to lead them. The good thing is the freshmen are getting a lot of experience and each has showed promise at different times but at this point I can't look at any of them and say there is a sure fire star in the group. Hopefully things will click once PL play starts but I'm not real optimistic that will be the case.
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at Siena
Dec 23, 2017 9:33:54 GMT -5
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Post by HC92 on Dec 23, 2017 9:33:54 GMT -5
There was mention of KC being hampered by a groin injury in the pre-game interview with Joe Scott last night. He said they would watch him in warmups and then make a decision as to whether he should go.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 23, 2017 9:53:59 GMT -5
87, is this your way of promising that you will be going on a holiday hiatus from Crossports? If so, let me be the first to wish you a Merry and peaceful Christmas. Trust me, the rest of us will know what your thoughts are when you don't post. If you feel it is necessary, I will volunteer to cut and paste some of your past posts as appropriate to the situation. On a more semi-serious note, my own tendency is to get more "impressions" of games and trends. It seems to me that the last few games, we've started pretty well out of the starting gates (last night we started on a 10-0 run) and our defense seems to be relatively strong and confusing to the opponent. And, probably not coincidentally, this seems to have matched up with Ziggy starting instead of PB. Then PB comes in and CG stays in and the wheels fall off both defensively and offensively. Someone (71, I believe from having watched live) posted earlier that there was a lack of valuing the ball and I made the same observation watching from the livefeed. No excuse for the ball to be stolen from behind. KC got the ball stolen when he was trapped on the sideline. The continuous lazy, telegraphed crosscourt lobbed passes that get stolen for a break and easy bucket drive me nuts [often resulting in an "and one'] and 10 games into the season even the freshmen should know enough about the speed of the game to know not to do that. This is, of course, mostly on the players but IMO, it is on the coaches too. And free throw shooting?!! Does anyone actually practice those? How many missed front ends of one & ones do we lose? I've been one of the ones preaching "patience, patience, patience." That said, I share the frustration of those who don't see the improvement trend that I had hoped for and expected. But, maybe we are saving it all up for March?
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Post by efg72 on Dec 23, 2017 10:08:33 GMT -5
The team is struggling to find an identity which is tough when you are losing and know that as a team you don’t excel at any part of the game —mentally that is tough because you have nothing to count on during the critical minutes of a game and with ABs tweet you begin to worry about this eventually impacting the younger players.
While it great to have perimeter shooters if you don’t start a game by establishing a presence in the paint and on the glass as well as getting to the line, the scouting reports or in game adjustments by the opponent will take away those open looks.
The expectations many have of some older players might be unrealistic given what appears to be their personality, and skill sets.
For example if KC had the previous senior class on the floor with him he might very well be having a great year-he was a third or fourth option in the offense and was defended accordingly. He was also not expected to deliver as many rebounds or be as important defensively with his length. Today he is needed to be mentally and physically tough, a leader, a scorer, a defender and rebounder. Perhaps he isn’t ready to deliver on more than one until our freshmen gain more experience.
JF, on the other hand, has overperformed early on which is great, but he can’t be our only inside threat and rebounder or he will begin to slow down.
PB wants the ball and to play faster to create a presence on the floor, but he needs to get the ball inside and to cutters. When he is handling now he attempts to do too much on his own and his teammates are standing around or not making the sharp cuts needed to get open—perhaps he plays this way because the team is struggling and he is trying to do all he can to help the team score.
Defensively we are soft, IMO because of the1-3-1, but that can be fixed by better communication, quickness, length and rotations or perhaps even switching defenses. Once the staff makes those adjustments/decisions the defense should pick up the offense and the team can begin to believe in itself, build a chemistry, and have an identity.
It would be interesting to see how many points have we scored off turnovers or in transition this year and compare it to what the teams did over the past five years, and what % of our total points come from our defense?
The freshmen are improving individually but lack consistency-that is why they are first year players- we do have a talented class with this group. They appear to be trying to figure out their role, working for minutes, and learning how they should play to make this a team. Once the kids get stronger, and IF all of this comes together, we will start playing as a team and not different combinations filling minutes during the game.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 23, 2017 10:11:30 GMT -5
That said it doesn’t guarantee Ws but only a more enjoyable game to watch
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 23, 2017 10:23:01 GMT -5
Well, when one of the first things independent/opposing team commentators say is that HC is weak in rebounding and spout the overall rebounding rankings, that says something. You can't get many rebounds when you don't even try and just hope the ball literally falls into your hands before you have a chance to turn around and head back on defense. Others more expert have posted that the defenses we play is such that it is difficult to get a body on and box out for defensive rebounds. In the past, while we gave up offensive rebounds to opposing teams, we created turnovers that somewhat negated that. We aren't doing that yet. Maybe with time and experience?
For all the movement, sharp cuts and great passing the P.O. offense depends on, it appears we are still too content to pass the ball around the perimeter and watch the shot clock run down. Too much standing around when the player doesn't have the ball.
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at Siena
Dec 23, 2017 10:33:22 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 23, 2017 10:33:22 GMT -5
After the 2-0 start I was hopeful that this season wouldn't be as bad as I feared coming in to it. At this point, those wins look like fools gold as we are not getting better and the same problems on defense and rebounding persist. The OOC schedule is now over and we still haven't settled on a stable rotation. From game to game there are huge fluctuations in playing time and effectiveness. Last game Grandison looked great as the leading scorer and tonight he played 9 minutes and didn't score, Butler had a few good games then backtracked last night. Floyd has been the most consistent player and it seems we ignore him in the first half of games. Green's play has leveled off and although Benzan led in scoring last night he has been up and down as well. At this point, we don't have a go to player to bail us out when things aren't going well. The hope was that Charles would be the guy but for whatever reason he has been a non factor for most of the year. Last night no field goals and no rebounds in 18 minutes of play. If he's hurt don't know why he wasn't shutdown to get healthy for PL play but that option is gone now. If he's not hurt that's a bigger problem as it indicates he is not the veteran presence this young team needs so much to lead them. The good thing is the freshmen are getting a lot of experience and each has showed promise at different times but at this point I can't look at any of them and say there is a sure fire star in the group. Hopefully things will click once PL play starts but I'm not real optimistic that will be the case. The roller coaster performance by individuals is a direct result of this nonsense system that isn’t concerned with fundamentals and details. Carmody wants to play a free flowing offense that relies on shooting a high percentage on jump shots from distance - the offense doesn’t get the ball inside, doesn’t set screens to get the ball to key players in a positive position, very rarely gets the ball to guys for layups, and creates a passive mentality that kills aggressiveness in drawing fouls and getting to the feee throw line. Carmody appears to have absolutely no answers for defense and rebounding, and also places no emphasis on opponent-specific scouting and gameplanning - it’s the same thing every game. Nate Pine should be thinking long and hard about whether Carmody should be brought back for year 4, or whether we should bring in a staff that is focused on recruiting and player development, and has a system that can actually make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. There will be four scholarships open next year, and if we don’t nail that class (including, ya know, recruiting guys who can defend, rebound, and play in the paint), we are totally screwed for a long time.
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Post by renospalding on Dec 23, 2017 10:33:40 GMT -5
I have followed this site for quite some time and finally registered to be able to post as I find it interesting how critical some of you are.
I have attended all 11 games and here is what I can offer. JF has shown great progress from last year to this year although he still lacks enthusiasm and leadership which is something this team needs. KC has not been effective and has faded off and nobody seems to know why but changes aren’t being made to try and find a different solution perhaps with a freshman.
I think we all agree PB and CG should not be on the court together for lengthy minutes as we are continuously outmatched. When they are on the court together for lengthy periods it really changes our rotation off the bench and limits the playing time of some of our more athletic younger guys creating this weird fluctuation that we all question. I personally feel we have 3-4 freshmen that are more athletic and talented than MZ and I question CBC desire to keep wanting to play him. He has junior experience and calmness but doesn’t really offer much outside of that. JS is still battling Injury in case any of you were wondering so that is why he hasn’t played. He warms up yes but clearly not ready to play live. His injury is unknown but appears to be a lower leg issue.
Brings me to the freshmen - give these guys a break! They are young, they are learning, they are inexperienced, and there has been no consistency with rotations and playing time. However I would match them up with any PL freshmen class and I put the odds on our guys! Have you all been watching? They have athleticism! A couple of them have physical toughness that is rare in a D1 freshman. Most of them were multiple sport athletes and excelled in multiple sports.
They are LEARNING a new system, a new style of play, a new level of play, and their freshman year of college, living away from home, and adjusting! They are progressing individually but if you think they won’t have bumps in the road or a bad game you are crazy! THEY ARE FRESHMEN! Mentioning JG and AB going backwards last night is a bit harsh considering the yo-yo these guys have been on! Playing time has been all over the place which doesn’t allow them to get comfortable or build confidence and if you have been watching these guys in addition to MF - they don’t have the green light, they get pulled quickly after a mistake is made, and appears to me that all three are playing positions different than what they played in HS in large part to this staff feeling the need to have PB and CG on the court together. MF was a 4 not a 5, JG was a 3 not a 4, and AB was a 2 not a 3. CG clearly has more freedom on the court than the three mentioned. CN has done some good things and appears the staff also gives him more freedom but he is slower and I feel less athletic than the other three freshmen mentioned but has also had little bit of ups and downs with his playing time which is all playing head games with these young guys. CG is good - not sure heads and tails better than the rest of the Frosh and definitely not sure he is 30+ minutes good as of late. As for KC, there is not a lot to go on.
IMHO We have the wrong mix of kids on the floor, our rotations are terrible and playing mind games with our young guys especially JG, AB, and MF. We have a team of talented freshmen most of who can run and push the ball but are trapped in this offense with a staff that wants to slow them down and quite frankly this style of play does not showcase the talent of our younger athletic guys. I will say it again - I take our Freshmen any day against any other class of PL Freshmen. Put them in the right position to complement one another on the floor and good things will happen. AB is a passionate, vocal, hard-nosed kid, strong and athletic, not to mention he can shoot from the parking lot and he can drive to the basket and is not afraid of contact and right now he is young and learning but I take him over MZ AND maybe even KC as of late. JG playing in the right position brings length, scoring ability, and athleticism, so I put him on the floor again as a starter. Then throw MF in the mix at the right position, he is tough mentally, can shoot outside and is big on the inside and not afraid to get physical which is what we need. My starting five - CG at the 1, AB at the 2, JG at the 3, MF at the 4 and JF at the 5. Would we take our lumps, YES WE WOULD but it would make our future much brighter and really what do we have to lose because right now we aren’t winning! That would have KC, PB, and CN coming in off the bench for a consistent rotation. REGARDLESS of the starting 5 that should be a consistent rotation of 8.
The one unanswered problem is a solid substitute for JF until JS is healthy.
PATIENCE as once our Frosh get comfortable and have confidence and are not afraid to make mistakes for fear of getting put on the bench progress will come. They are battling for playing time, are young, and clearly afraid to make mistakes for fear they will drop to almost NO time as we have already witnessed happening to AB, JG, and MF because of this staff. Cut them a break they are going to experience growing pains but don’t tear them apart.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 23, 2017 10:34:01 GMT -5
Well, when one of the first things independent/opposing team commentators say is that HC is weak in rebounding and spout the overall rebounding rankings, that says something. You can't get many rebounds when you don't even try and just hope the ball literally falls into your hands before you have a chance to turn around and head back on defense. Others more expert have posted that the defenses we play is such that it is difficult to get a body on and box out for defensive rebounds. In the past, while we gave up offensive rebounds to opposing teams, we created turnovers that somewhat negated that. We aren't doing that yet. Maybe with time and experience? For all the movement, sharp cuts and great passing the P.O. offense depends on, it appears we are still too content to pass the ball around the perimeter and watch the shot clock run down. Too much standing around when the player doesn't have the ball. We are still creating turnovers, but not at the rate that we did last season. Last year HC ranked #3 in the country on KenPom's Turnover percentage stat. We had 5 players in the Top 150 (of 2,163 players in D-1 with enough minutes) in steals (of course, factors other than steals contribute to turnovers) last season. This year our defense is #89 in turnover percentage, pretty good but lower than last year.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 23, 2017 10:48:22 GMT -5
My concern remains the 1-3-1 defense and the lack of toughness and intensity it brings to this team which adds to the offensive struggles.
For those on the Board that might have played for Coach Blaney, Togo and Jim Dougher, there was a “Control” offense that you ran which had important motion and Princeton principles but delivered inside baskets and individual freedom offensively. It was hard to defend and fun to watch. Don’t like living in the past, and the game has changed in so many ways, but looking at this roster my bet is the team would welcome the same type of freedom and success will follow, especially on the offensive boards.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 23, 2017 10:53:56 GMT -5
We will not get better until we leave the PL and start recruiting better athletes. What a waste of money on the Luth if we stay in the PL. Indoor practice football and a basketball court will not bring us better athletes, we need to upgrade the programs. The PL is killing our athletics. You mention this all the time, sir. So how exactly do we do what you suggest? Should they just tell the freshmen not to bother coming back from their Christmas break? Should we say adios, tonto to the others as well? Should we hire The Ghost of Jerry Tarkanian as coach, then develop a General Studies program, and raid the jucos? Then play 94 x 50 for 40? How come the PL hasn't killed Bucknell? Is it because they didn't win the NCAA 70 years ago? I'm just interested in knowing what the master plan would be in the year 2017.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 23, 2017 11:10:46 GMT -5
Reno welcome to the Board. I agree with you on rotations being a mess, freshmen play and development, improvement of JF and how KC fits. I believe that is what I stated in earlier posts. I could live with your lineup although I might flip CN in for JG or play him at the 2 and 3.
One concern for the program is if the lineup remains uncertain for the balance of the season and kids are afraid to make mistakes how do they become a team? How enthusiastic will the players be in helping the staff recruit future players with their own roles unknown? And will we lose one or two at the end of the year? Are they recruiting 2018 kids in preparation for any departures?
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billy72
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 95
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at Siena
Dec 23, 2017 11:11:52 GMT -5
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Post by billy72 on Dec 23, 2017 11:11:52 GMT -5
Way things are trending, we’ll be lucky to win another game this year ! Sad
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at Siena
Dec 23, 2017 11:21:57 GMT -5
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efg72 likes this
Post by renospalding on Dec 23, 2017 11:21:57 GMT -5
Reno welcome to the Board. I agree with you on rotations being a mess, freshmen play and development, improvement of JF and how KC fits. I believe that is what I stated in earlier posts. I could live with your lineup although I might flip CN in for JG or play him at the 2 and 3. One concern for the program is if the lineup remains uncertain for the balance of the season and kids are afraid to make mistakes how do they become a team? How enthusiastic will the players be in helping the staff recruit future players with their own roles unknown? And will we lose one or two at the end of the year? Are they recruiting 2018 kids in preparation for any departures? I do worry about losing some of our younger talented kids due to frustration and lack of leadership and knowledge of what their roles may be. Hopefully during conference play that will work itself out but we need forward thinking and leadership and general enthusiasm. We don’t have that from our older guys right now. I believe this team is close in terms of relationships and want the same thing - WIN - but I just hope the inconsistency of playing time and substitutions and the losing does not affect that team concept and then we see this become an individual problem. Coaches need to see this and communicate roles and expectations or we could have guys walking. Let’s hope the recruiting class for 2019 brings in some inside players as that is where we are lacking. We have enough guards for now.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 23, 2017 12:15:47 GMT -5
I would disagree on some points. IMHO, this roster is not poorly assembled (unless you prefer that players not start as inexperienced frosh) and they are being coached well. They are progressing individually (and the players know it). The team play will also progress with time. THis is a year to build both the individuals and their teamwork. It was said by some that patience would be needed. That was right on target! I️ know you don’t like to deal in “absolutes” but you’re really floating out there here. -Regarding roster building, Carmody has used one of his 10 scholarships on a big guy and he hasn’t been able to get on the floor. -The staff has also placed zero emphasis on defense and rebounding with recruiting -Regarding them being “coached well,” there is no hard evidence of that. Floyd is the only player who has shown true progression and he was not a BC recruit (had far more raw tools than guys BC has brought in) “The team will also progress with time.” - That sounds like an absolute despite no actual evidence that this will automatically happen simply because “freshmen” will become “sophomores.” I was not sure that having a recurring injury was known at the time of his recruiting. Do you mean he should insist that players heal faster? Zero emphasis...not sure about that, but offensive ability has clearly been more important. It does not matter who recruited JF, since he is only really contributing now - as a junior. After all, BC his coach for all of his HC Career to date. All teams progress "as a team' with time. How far they progress is certainly a variable and not an absolute. What is the absolute "there here"?
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Post by timholycross on Dec 23, 2017 12:31:39 GMT -5
I have made this comment more than once, RW didn’t have blue chip recruits but he had tough kids. Those teams put fear in their opponents. We won on defense and rebounding. We don’t have that anymore. The PO ‘s Time has past. The game is changing. Shorter shot clock hurts the P.O. Also let’s face it, for the most part we never see it run anyway! The nobody on the offensive glass mentality, totally makes no sense to me and hasn’t for three years. Outside of that cute 5 game run when we caught the PL sleeping, we have been a pretty bad program for three years and could lose 20 games this year. Do we keep changing BB coaches? There are many problems with sports at HC and the Luth center with its 90 yard indoor football field will not fix. The school has to set an identity of what it wants to be in athletics and stop this shirade of division 1, I mean division 3 athletics. Spread the court out and make 3s....Isn't that what most NBA teams do now? And a team that runs the Princeton offense (yeah, Princeton), scored 103 against USC 4 days ago. It ain't the offense, it's how you execute it and who you execute it with.
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Post by cfrivals on Dec 23, 2017 13:14:03 GMT -5
We show no resemblance to that offense you mention. It’s called adapting to what you have and stop being a stubborn old coach
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at Siena
Dec 23, 2017 15:11:46 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Dec 23, 2017 15:11:46 GMT -5
Gtown looks sharp with PO, which I’m pretty sure is what they play.
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Post by bison137 on Dec 23, 2017 15:13:52 GMT -5
We will not get better until we leave the PL and start recruiting better athletes. Curious why Bucknell and Lehigh are able to recruit good athletes.
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at Siena
Dec 23, 2017 15:55:31 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 23, 2017 15:55:31 GMT -5
Gtown looks sharp with PO, which I’m pretty sure is what they play. I highly doubt that Patrick Ewing is running a P.O., but they have played the 351st (out of 351) non-conference schedule. They could be successful running the Milan Bown Offense and torching teams with a Big East roster against that schedule.
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at Siena
Dec 23, 2017 16:11:24 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Dec 23, 2017 16:11:24 GMT -5
Gtown looks sharp with PO, which I’m pretty sure is what they play. I highly doubt that Patrick Ewing is running a P.O., but they have played the 351st (out of 351) non-conference schedule. They could be successful running the Milan Bown Offense and torching teams with a Big East roster against that schedule. It’s definitely more up tempo, but in watching the game against Syracuse it sure seemed to me like a modern version of it. Admittedly I could be wrong. I’m interested to see how they do as the BE schedule starts. Off topic.
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