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Post by trimster on Dec 28, 2017 11:48:56 GMT -5
Anyone out have any insight as to whether or not our alma mater/local college has any plans to use athletics as a vehicle to put the college back on the map and attract the eye of prospective students from areas outside of the Northeast. Like it or not, an argument can be made that athletics is what put my alma mater on the map in the first place and that isn't a bad thing. I grew up on HC athletics in the 60's, was a part of the athletic program in the 70's and like to think I have both feet planted on the ground of realism. I know the days of national prominence are long gone but I'd like to see us compete at a level a lot higher than "Ivy Lite". The facts our football program will be playing multiple games vs BCS programs and our woman's hockey program will be joining Hockey East gives me some optimism the administration has an open mind to competing at a higher level. The construction of the Luth may also support that optimism but calling it a game changer is a stretch in my humble opinion.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 28, 2017 12:02:49 GMT -5
Vellacio has stated the college’s desire to use athletics to attract more applicants, but there is no mention of competing at a higher level than the PL
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 28, 2017 13:10:36 GMT -5
Don't you think a $95M investment in Luth would indicate Yes?
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Post by trimster on Dec 28, 2017 13:35:49 GMT -5
I do and look forward to the dividends it will yield but let's not forget, HC had a great deal of success in athletics when it had very little in terms of athletic facailities.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 28, 2017 13:57:18 GMT -5
Perhaps HC needs to rebuild the barn and put a basketball court in it. That worked before!
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Post by lou on Dec 28, 2017 14:15:14 GMT -5
I do and look forward to the dividends it will yield but let's not forget, HC had a great deal of success in athletics when it had very little in terms of athletic facailities. Maybe, but just in the last few weeks, we have played at UMass, and at Siena's "home" court, two tremendous arenas, which I could imagine look pretty nice to recruits
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Post by timholycross on Dec 28, 2017 14:49:35 GMT -5
Well, like Siena, there is a nice large-enough arena in close proximity to Holy Cross if it ever became economically feasible to play a bunch of hockey and/or basketball games there. But I see them light years from being in a position to take advantage of that, at least in basketball.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 28, 2017 14:49:46 GMT -5
I do and look forward to the dividends it will yield but let's not forget, HC had a great deal of success in athletics when it had very little in terms of athletic facailities. Whole world has changed.
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Post by bigfan on Dec 28, 2017 14:58:13 GMT -5
If the following schools can do it in basketball, why can't we:
Boston College, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, Xavier, St. Joe's, Gonzaga, St. Bonnie's, St. Louis, DePaul, San Francisco, Fordham, LaSalle, etc,
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 28, 2017 15:01:16 GMT -5
npine@holycross.edu.
He's the one can facilitate change. Float you questions to those who can facilitate a change rather than to those who can't.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 28, 2017 15:07:54 GMT -5
If the following schools can do it in basketball, why can't we: Boston College, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, Xavier, St. Joe's, Gonzaga, St. Bonnie's, St. Louis, DePaul, San Francisco, Fordham, LaSalle, etc, You may want to amend your list, e.g. Fordham has had two winning seasons in the past 25 years, LaSalle has had five
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 28, 2017 15:10:19 GMT -5
If the following schools can do it in basketball, why can't we: Boston College, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, Xavier, St. Joe's, Gonzaga, St. Bonnie's, St. Louis, DePaul, San Francisco, Fordham, LaSalle, etc, Majority of these schools don't sponsor football and hockey, nor do they have academic standards that are in the same stratosphere as HC.
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Post by trimster on Dec 28, 2017 15:18:33 GMT -5
Nate Pine can push for a change but people higher on the food chain than our AD are the ones that determine whether or not it happens.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 28, 2017 15:29:58 GMT -5
Anyone out have any insight as to whether or not our alma mater/local college has any plans to use athletics as a vehicle to put the college back on the map and attract the eye of prospective students from areas outside of the Northeast. Like it or not, an argument can be made that athletics is what put my alma mater on the map in the first place and that isn't a bad thing. I grew up on HC athletics in the 60's, was a part of the athletic program in the 70's and like to think I have both feet planted on the ground of realism. I know the days of national prominence are long gone but I'd like to see us compete at a level a lot higher than "Ivy Lite". The facts our football program will be playing multiple games vs BCS programs and our woman's hockey program will be joining Hockey East gives me some optimism the administration has an open mind to competing at a higher level. The construction of the Luth may also support that optimism but calling it a game changer is a stretch in my humble opinion. "Ivy Lite" seems to be our destiny as I don't see any plans for basketball and football to leave the Patriot League. We need (in the eyes of admin) to continue to associate with Patriot League members as we look to build/rebuild our academic reputation and admissions statistics. Luth may help recruiting a bit at the margins. Haven't seen that effect yet in terms of football and basketball but it may come.
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Post by trimster on Dec 28, 2017 16:09:38 GMT -5
Ponder this one for a minute when considering what the PL has done to/for HC athletics. The championship game of the local high school basketball tourney named after one of our basketball alumni, Andy Laska, has a chance to draw more fans tomorrow night than our game vs Colgate, at the Hart Center.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 28, 2017 16:25:22 GMT -5
Ponder this one for a minute when considering what the PL has done to/for HC athletics. The championship game of the local high school basketball tourney named after one of our basketball alumni, Andy Laska, has a chance to draw more fans tomorrow night than our game vs Colgate, at the Hart Center. 17 of the 32 D-1 conferences averaged attendance below 2,500 per game last season.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 28, 2017 17:09:06 GMT -5
If the following schools can do it in basketball, why can't we: Boston College, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, Xavier, St. Joe's, Gonzaga, St. Bonnie's, St. Louis, DePaul, San Francisco, Fordham, LaSalle, etc, [br Hmmmm....wonder what our combined record this century is against BC,LaSalle,USF,Fordham, St.Joes and Providence.
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Post by bikeman on Dec 28, 2017 17:09:48 GMT -5
Nothing will change. Boring mediocrity thanks to the PL. Locals will never be interested.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 28, 2017 17:15:52 GMT -5
In my humble opinion, if HC had the same exact record as Bucknell over the past 15 years (multiple NCAA wins, road win over top 10 ten team,other high major wins, successful coaching changes), there would be no worries about outdrawing a high school tourney tomorrow night. Just my opinion, mind you.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 28, 2017 17:19:13 GMT -5
trimster, you haven't posted much so I don't know how new you are to Crossports and prior discussions on this subject. However, I and others have posted in the past that the current president, Fr. Boroughs, seems to have a diametrically opposed position on athletics than his immediate 4 predecessors (Fr. McFarland; Frank Vellaccio as acting president; Fr. Reedy; and Fr. Brooks). None of them seemed to have cared for excellence in athletics in order to get the Holy Cross "brand" out to the hinterlands. Some were apparently "anti-athletics" and I have little doubt gave Ann McDermott her marching orders to bend not a scintilla to have a great athlete grace his/her presence on Mt. St. James. Other presidents wanted excellence in athletics but just were not willing to pay for it. Fr. Brooks unquestionably wanted excellence but was not about to deviate from our athletes being less than at least average students and better would be better. Fr. McFarland spoke often of an enhanced Hart Center for years, yet he added a couple of new dorms and other buildings without any improvements to the athletic facilities. Fr. Reedy seemed not to care one whit about athletics in his short tenure. Frank V to this day wants the Crusaders to be #1 in everything but said so often "great, but where is the money coming from." In addition, every admitted student-athlete for years needed to get past not just Ann McDermott but Frank as well.
Fr. Boroughs has stated publicly on more than one occasion that he sees athletics as a way to expand the Holy Cross name and would especially like our excellent reputation to extend to the west coast and south where there is demographic growth. He sees excellence on the court, ice and field as a way to do that. It is not coincidence that the LAC was built under his and Nate Pine's "reign" and not Fr. McFarland and Dick Regan. Again, not saying that the latter two didn't want it, they couldn't get it done either because of diluted focus or lack of skills to raise the funds.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 28, 2017 17:21:27 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, forgot to add that Fr. B seems to like the Patriot League but if a "better" conference/league was willing to take Holy Cross, I think he'd jump but he recognizes that that will never happen unless and until Holy Cross can dominate the PL and that's a long way down the road.
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Post by trimster on Dec 28, 2017 17:46:22 GMT -5
NAD,
I am going to guess our record against the schools you mentioned is surprisingly good but the larger issue is how often games of that ilk were played. Almost all of our long-time rivals refuse to schedule us any more and interest in the hoops program has died.
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Post by trimster on Dec 28, 2017 18:11:05 GMT -5
Thank you sader 1970 for the update. It's nice to hear that Fr. Boroughs is open to the idea of using athletics as a way to promote the Holy Cross brand. I know Fr. Brooks was very interested in the athletics program but I am not sure if he wanted athletic excellence or not. I do think he wanted a non-scholarship athletic program and I seem to recall seeing a quote from him that he felt need-based aid for student-athletes was much more socially just than full rides for athletes. I think the decisions regarding athletics from the late 70's to the mid 80's are a strong reflection of that philosophy. I think he probably should have promoted that line of thinking over quotes such as we aren't in the entertainment business, (good-bye Worcester fans), we have no place to hide the type of student-athlete needed to compete in the BE, (who asked you to hide anyone?), if people find us to be elitist, so be it and one of my favorites, by joining the PL, we will have student-athletes who are more representative of the student-body. (How do you that made student-athletes from earlier eras feel?)
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 28, 2017 18:18:15 GMT -5
Trimster, I understand the frustration with traditional rivals not wanting to play. At the same time, I say move on and find new rivals. Sure, higher level games will certainly be on the road, but you have to go out and play them - and win. BC, you don't want to play in Worcester? Ok, where and when do you want to play - we'll be there, ready to take you out! Still don't want to play? No problem, there are dozens upon dozens of teams just as good as you that WILL play us.
You sell this to recruits; you aim high. You start winning a few of those types of games, all of a sudden you are a more attractive opponent. But in the end, you just HAVE to win; no excuses. I still believe it can be done.
By the way, I don't know what our record is against those teams mentioned......I know we haven't beaten PC since 1999, but we've had 2 wins against BC; 1-1 against LaSalle, 2-1 (I think) against St. Joes; either 3-0 or 4-0 against USF, and we've beaten Fordham like a drum till they ran in the opposite direction. We've had some wins, within the PL, just haven't taken it to the next level like Bucknell (and I'm still not buying the reasons why that I keep hearing over and over).
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Post by trimster on Dec 28, 2017 18:36:55 GMT -5
NAD,
I like your thinking and enthusiasm but I don't see where there are beaucoup schools out there willing to play us. We can't even get PL associate members Fordham and Georgetown to schedule us in hoops.
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