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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 29, 2018 15:36:16 GMT -5
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Post by Tom on Jan 29, 2018 16:11:45 GMT -5
I'm not Native American, but I can get how some Native Americans could be offended by the Chief Wahoo depiction.
Since the team name indirectly comes from a Crusader, I'm glad they're sticking with the Indians
This part is kind of funny. As I understand it, North Dakota changed the mascot because they were told by the NCAA if they didn't they could not participate in play-offs and they don't have the power 5 clout of Florida Sate to participate in play-offs even with a Native American name. Once again emphasizing this is my recollection of the situation, North Dakota was sensitive enough of the situation that they contacted the leaders of the Sioux Nation and had their blessing to use the name. They only changed because of the threatened NCAA tournament ban. I also believe that Florida St has the permission of the leaders of the Seminole Nation.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 29, 2018 16:19:58 GMT -5
Right on both counts, Tom. Some f the Sioux my wife and I spoke with last summer felt that this was a stupid move that cost the college (where three of them played football) a huge amount of money to get rid of a name in which many of the Sioux themselves seemed to take pride.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 29, 2018 16:23:33 GMT -5
I guess the NCAA knows what is best for the Sioux better than the Sioux themselves do......
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 29, 2018 16:39:38 GMT -5
The NCAA sucks. Carry on.
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Post by joutsHC77 on Jan 29, 2018 17:24:05 GMT -5
There have been 2 good HC athletes that have transferred to ND. Sockalexis and the HOF football player, can't remember his last name, George...
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 29, 2018 17:47:04 GMT -5
ND stole a number of MLB players from HC as well, including my wife’s aunt’s grandfather Michael “Doc” Powers whose story I’ve told here before
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Jan 29, 2018 19:32:30 GMT -5
Another win for the ban everything crowd
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Post by alum on Jan 29, 2018 20:22:39 GMT -5
There have been 2 good HC athletes that have transferred to ND. Sockalexis and the HOF football player, can't remember his last name, George... My great great uncle, Joe Collins, played football at HC for a year or two before transferring to ND. He discovered an underclassman named ....Knute Rockne. |
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 29, 2018 21:28:10 GMT -5
There have been 2 good HC athletes that have transferred to ND. Sockalexis and the HOF football player, can't remember his last name, George... [br George Connor I believe. Saw his bust in the football HOF in Canton and, IIRC, mentions playing for both HC and ND. |
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Post by hc87 on Jan 30, 2018 0:28:50 GMT -5
George Connor is correct...his son Al went to HC, good athlete but not a scholarship player...graduated in 1987
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 30, 2018 8:20:51 GMT -5
George remained somewhat of a Holy Cross supporter as I met him at HC Club of Chicago events when I lived there
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 30, 2018 8:50:30 GMT -5
Who was the other player on the 1942 team who became a first team All-American, and is in the College Football HoF?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 30, 2018 10:03:03 GMT -5
Bullet Bill?
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Post by hchoops on Jan 30, 2018 10:18:16 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Jan 30, 2018 11:05:33 GMT -5
Who was the other player on the 1942 team who became a first team All-American, and is in the College Football HoF? According to wiki, we had no All Americans in 1942 George Connor was our only AA in ‘43 |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 30, 2018 11:10:06 GMT -5
Who was the other player on the 1942 team who became a first team All-American, and is in the College Football HoF? According to wiki, we had no All Americans in 1942 I'm guessing that we need to parse the question. The player was "on the 1942 team" and "became a first team All-American" BUT that does not necessarily mean that he was an All-American that year, or at Holy Cross.... So, who might have transferred out of HC, become an All-American elsewhere and later make the HOF?  |
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Post by clmetsfan on Jan 30, 2018 13:59:01 GMT -5
Anyone have a problem with hats 1 and 2?  |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 30, 2018 14:10:55 GMT -5
His career at HC was interrupted by the war, and, post war, he became a consensus first team All American at another school. Played, and was a star, in one of the most memorable football games ever.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 30, 2018 14:14:53 GMT -5
Since I am not a Jew, chinaman or Indian (Native American or otherwise), they would not personally bother me. Even though I hate Notre Dame, it has nothing to do with their dopey Irish mascot and I AM Irish.
Pretty sure I don’t associate either Jews or Chinamen with athletics and outside of lacrosse, not so much Native Americans either except Cleveland supposedly named their team after great HC athlete, Lou Sockalexus.
Now a Crusader on the other hand . . . . . 😂
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Post by clmetsfan on Jan 30, 2018 14:34:45 GMT -5
Since I am not a Jew, chinaman or Indian (Native American or otherwise), they would not personally bother me. Even though I hate Notre Dame, it has nothing to do with their dopey Irish mascot and I AM Irish. Pretty sure I don’t associate either Jews or Chinamen with athletics and outside of lacrosse, not so much Native Americans either except Cleveland supposedly named their team after great HC athlete, Lou Sockalexus. Now a Crusader on the other hand . . . . . 😂 That perspective is a bit troubling. You only have a problem with racist caricatures if you personally belong to that race? |
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Post by Tom on Jan 30, 2018 16:19:36 GMT -5
Since I am not a Jew, chinaman or Indian (Native American or otherwise), they would not personally bother me. Even though I hate Notre Dame, it has nothing to do with their dopey Irish mascot and I AM Irish. Pretty sure I don’t associate either Jews or Chinamen with athletics and outside of lacrosse, not so much Native Americans either except Cleveland supposedly named their team after great HC athlete, Lou Sockalexus. Now a Crusader on the other hand . . . . . 😂 That perspective is a bit troubling. You only have a problem with racist caricatures if you personally belong to that race? I Sader70's point was that even though he doesn't have a problem with Notre Dame's racist caricature even though he belongs to that race |
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Post by alum on Jan 30, 2018 17:14:17 GMT -5
Since I am not a Jew, chinaman or Indian (Native American or otherwise), they would not personally bother me. Even though I hate Notre Dame, it has nothing to do with their dopey Irish mascot and I AM Irish. Pretty sure I don’t associate either Jews or Chinamen with athletics and outside of lacrosse, not so much Native Americans either except Cleveland supposedly named their team after great HC athlete, Lou Sockalexus. Now a Crusader on the other hand . . . . . 😂 Come on sader70, you are better than that First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemoller |
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 30, 2018 17:41:32 GMT -5
Apparently Tom understood my point.
My post was no more serious than the pretend baseball caps.
The absurdity of those caps deserved a similarly absurd response.
When and if an ethnic group is offended, I support them but it is not up to me to be offended on behalf of another group.
Specific example was referenced about the Sioux and North Dakota and the NCAA deciding that their mascot was offensive while the Sioux actually take pride in that representation.
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Post by clmetsfan on Jan 30, 2018 17:42:20 GMT -5
That perspective is a bit troubling. You only have a problem with racist caricatures if you personally belong to that race? I Sader70's point was that even though he doesn't have a problem with Notre Dame's racist caricature even though he belongs to that race Considering Notre Dame is historically a school run and attended by Irish-Americans, it's really not a good comparison. If Chief Wahoo had been designed by an American Indian and the franchise run by American Indians, then we can talk about comparing the two. That logo and the Washington football team is cultural appropriation at its most fundamental level. |
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