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Post by WorcesterGray on Sept 7, 2018 11:17:23 GMT -5
A quick check of realtor.com shows 344 single family residences currently for sale in Worcester - 29 are listed over $500,000.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 7, 2018 11:33:10 GMT -5
Just curious. City of Worcester or the county of Worcester you guys are talking about?
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Post by WorcesterGray on Sept 7, 2018 11:35:15 GMT -5
City.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 7, 2018 12:17:01 GMT -5
You would be surprised, or maybe not, at how much of other people's money I've spent, over the years. As I don't own property in Worcester, I don't give a rodent's behind how the city spends its money. As a non-taxpayer, I will observe that the valuation of commercial and industrial property in Worcester continues to decline, and the residential property owners have to pick up more of the burden of financing the city. Annual property tax bill on a home assessed at $500,000
Cambridge $1,199 Brookline $2,671 Boston $2,862 Somerville $3,088 Watertown $5,272 Arlington $6,280 Belmont $6,345 Worcester $9,455 Source for cities other than Worcester www.cambridgema.gov/~/media/Files/assessingdepartment/News/cambtaxnewsletter1final082817.pdfFor Worcester www.worcesterma.gov/finance/taxes-assessments/understanding-your-taxes/real-estate-tax$9,455 is at the 'new' Federal cap on the deductible amount for state and local taxes, Looks like you cherry picked certain towns for your analysis. And why did you pick $500,000 as your benchmark? How many homes in Worcester are assessed at $500,000? Not many. The cherry-picking was done by the city of Cambridge. Cambridge also chose the $500,000 valuation; (they also did a comparison for homes that had a $1 million valuation, which I didn't include). I simply borrowed their numbers. For the five largest cities (by population) in Massachusetts, a comparison of their residential / commercial-industrial tax rates per $1,000 of valuation in the years 2003 and 2018. Boston 2003 11.29 / 31.49 2018 10.48 / 25.30 Cambridge 2003 7.26 / 18.67 2018 6.29 / 14.81 Lowell 2003 13.77 / 28.76 2018 14.39 / 29.34 Springfield 2003 19.41 / 34.54 2018 19.68 / 39.38 Worcester 2003 16.16 / 31.44 2018 18.91 / 34.03 Source: dlsgateway.dor.state.ma.us/reports/rdPage.aspx?rdReport=PropertyTaxInformation.taxratesbyclass.taxratesbyclass_mainThe property tax rates in Worcester tend to be a disincentive to investment. If I make $100,000 in home improvements, and the full value of which is incorporated into my assessment, my tax bill is going up by $1,900. If I own a store, and make improvements of a similar value, my tax bill is going up by about $3,500. In the case of the new baseball stadium, Worcester intends to use the increase in tax revenue from the development around the stadium to help pay off the bonds. That tax revenue is an unofficial set-aside for the stadium; thus it contributes very little.to helping pay the rest of the city's expenses. An $85 million bond for 30 years at 4.5 percent will cost the city $5.2 million a year, of which the Sawx will pay $3 million. That means the city needs to get $2.2 million a year from other taxes and fees to pay off the bonds..
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 7, 2018 12:42:41 GMT -5
Looks like you cherry picked certain towns for your analysis. And why did you pick $500,000 as your benchmark? How many homes in Worcester are assessed at $500,000? Not many. The cherry-picking was done by the city of Cambridge. Cambridge also chose the $500,000 valuation; (they also did a comparison for homes that had a $1 million valuation, which I didn't include). I simply borrowed their numbers. For the five largest cities (by population) in Massachusetts, a comparison of their residential / commercial-industrial tax rates per $1,000 of valuation in the years 2003 and 2018. Boston 2003 11.29 / 31.49 2018 10.48 / 25.30 Cambridge 2003 7.26 / 18.67 2018 6.29 / 14.81 Lowell 2003 13.77 / 28.76 2018 14.39 / 29.34 Springfield 2003 19.41 / 34.54 2018 19.68 / 39.38 Worcester 2003 16.16 / 31.44 2018 18.91 / 34.03 Source: dlsgateway.dor.state.ma.us/reports/rdPage.aspx?rdReport=PropertyTaxInformation.taxratesbyclass.taxratesbyclass_mainThe property tax rates in Worcester tend to be a disincentive to investment. If I make $100,000 in home improvements, and the full value of which is incorporated into my assessment, my tax bill is going up by $1,900. If I own a store, and make improvements of a similar value, my tax bill is going up by about $3,500. In the case of the new baseball stadium, Worcester intends to use the increase in tax revenue from the development around the stadium to help pay off the bonds. That tax revenue is an unofficial set-aside for the stadium; thus it contributes very little.to helping pay the rest of the city's expenses. An $85 million bond for 30 years at 4.5 percent will cost the city $5.2 million a year, of which the Sawx will pay $3 million. That means the city needs to get $2.2 million a year from other taxes and fees to pay off the bonds.. That property around the stadium is contributing zero to the city coffers right now. In fact, I would say it an overall negative to the city. My question to you is, what is your alternative? You are good at saying something won’t work, so, in your opinion what should be done with that property? Keep it the way it is? Should we continue to be forced to look at an ugly, contaminated piece of property?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 7, 2018 14:29:14 GMT -5
Wyman Gordon pays about $150,000 annually in property taxes on two parcels it owns on Madison St. ___________________
That's really an opportunity cost question. Worcester will spend, with financing costs, $150 million on a sports venue that will generate little in the way of employment for the money spent.
If it were my city's money, and my city was similar to Worcester which it isn't, I would spend it on buildings for incubators / start-ups, in the hope that a percentage of those new companies would grow, stay in Worcester, and hire lots of employees. The growth in the bio-med, and pharmaceutical industry in and around Boston is second to none in the world. And I see scant evidence that Worcester is capturing even a small fraction of that growth.. .
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Post by rf1 on Sept 7, 2018 14:35:46 GMT -5
The more you read about the Worcester stadium deal, the worst it gets for taxpayers. Its desperate attempt to get the team puts very little risk on ownership. The team is putting up very little money upfront (6M) and just 1M annually, will have an exit clause in just 15 years, and doesn't even have to sell tickets in the first years as it has a guarantee. Meanwhile, the city is putting up in excess of 70M in capital and assuming large bond interest payments on it and the state of MA is contributing 35M all with the desired hope that this works out so that it "pays for itself". Looks like the City of Worcester's excessive generosity could have ripple effects and another New England city with a minor league team could be screwed over. There now seem to be worries in Lowell that the team could eventually lose its Red Sox affiliation. Seems Larry Lucchino could be at it again. It's up to Lowell leaders, fans to save the Spinners By Chaz Scoggins, Special to The Sun www.lowellsun.com/baseball/ci_32113816/its-up-lowell-leaders-fans-save-spinners
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 7, 2018 14:37:21 GMT -5
Wyman Gordon pays about $150,000 annually in property taxes on two parcels it owns on Madison St. ___________________ That's really an opportunity cost question. Worcester will spend, with financing costs, $150 million on a sports venue that will generate little in the way of employment for the money spent. If it were my city's money, and my city was similar to Worcester which it isn't, I would spend it on buildings for incubators / start-ups, in the hope that a percentage of those new companies would grow, stay in Worcester, and hire lots of employees. The growth in the bio-med, and pharmaceutical industry in and around Boston is second to none in the world. And I see scant evidence that Worcester is capturing even a small fraction of that growth.. . The biotech is concentrated around UMass Medical school, drive by there and you will see your evidence. So your plan is to build buildings for non existing businesses and hope they come. Makes sense.
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Post by matunuck on Sept 7, 2018 14:42:30 GMT -5
With the taxpayer head-slap coming, no doubt Worcester politicians will yet again whine about local colleges not paying their "fair share."
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Post by rf1 on Sept 7, 2018 14:47:00 GMT -5
Wyman Gordon pays about $150,000 annually in property taxes on two parcels it owns on Madison St. ___________________ That's really an opportunity cost question. Worcester will spend, with financing costs, $150 million on a sports venue that will generate little in the way of employment for the money spent. If it were my city's money, and my city was similar to Worcester which it isn't, I would spend it on buildings for incubators / start-ups, in the hope that a percentage of those new companies would grow, stay in Worcester, and hire lots of employees. The growth in the bio-med, and pharmaceutical industry in and around Boston is second to none in the world. And I see scant evidence that Worcester is capturing even a small fraction of that growth.. .
That is one of the reasons Providence took a pass on the initial proposed stadium. In addition to it not going over well to have RI taxpayer money used to rip a team from one state city to another, there were arguments that the area near where the Providence stadium was proposed was intended to be a knowledge district. It was hoped that this area, which had become available with the move of route 195, would be the home to private companies that paid taxes and brought high paying jobs with activity all year long. A stadium, used just a few months of the year, that mostly provided low end jobs, did not fit the mold of what was intended for this new district.
Providence Innovation & Design District
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 7, 2018 18:32:25 GMT -5
Wyman Gordon pays about $150,000 annually in property taxes on two parcels it owns on Madison St. ___________________ That's really an opportunity cost question. Worcester will spend, with financing costs, $150 million on a sports venue that will generate little in the way of employment for the money spent. If it were my city's money, and my city was similar to Worcester which it isn't, I would spend it on buildings for incubators / start-ups, in the hope that a percentage of those new companies would grow, stay in Worcester, and hire lots of employees. The growth in the bio-med, and pharmaceutical industry in and around Boston is second to none in the world. And I see scant evidence that Worcester is capturing even a small fraction of that growth.. .
That is one of the reasons Providence took a pass on the initial proposed stadium. In addition to it not going over well to have RI taxpayer money used to rip a team from one state city to another, there were arguments that the area near where the Providence stadium was proposed was intended to be a knowledge district. It was hoped that this area, which had become available with the move of route 195, would be the home to private companies that paid taxes and brought high paying jobs with activity all year long. A stadium, used just a few months of the year, that mostly provided low end jobs, did not fit the mold of what was intended for this new district.
Providence Innovation & Design District
Bull. If 38 Studios never happened Rhode Island would have been all over this and spent any amount of money to keep the team.
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Post by rf1 on Sept 7, 2018 18:40:35 GMT -5
That is one of the reasons Providence took a pass on the initial proposed stadium. In addition to it not going over well to have RI taxpayer money used to rip a team from one state city to another, there were arguments that the area near where the Providence stadium was proposed was intended to be a knowledge district. It was hoped that this area, which had become available with the move of route 195, would be the home to private companies that paid taxes and brought high paying jobs with activity all year long. A stadium, used just a few months of the year, that mostly provided low end jobs, did not fit the mold of what was intended for this new district.
Providence Innovation & Design District
Bull. If 38 Studios never happened Rhode Island would have been all over this and spent any amount of money to keep the team.
No bull. There was a lot of opposition to the first proposed site in Providence. The later downtown Pawtucket location was probably more popular for Rhode Islanders.
Opposition mounts to PawSox stadium in downtown Providence
Providence Preservation Society Opposes 195 Location for Stadium
Providence Residents Increasing Opposition to PawSox Stadium
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 7, 2018 19:50:34 GMT -5
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Post by timholycross on Sept 8, 2018 9:00:14 GMT -5
The only fallacy in Scoggins' argument is that McCoy needs work AAA team or A team, including stuff like improving access to the place. You think Lucchino and company would get the city or state to improve anything considering the current transactions?
Makes no sense as well to move a franchise that is playing to near capacity.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Sept 8, 2018 9:46:41 GMT -5
Part of Baumann's argument here and in an op-ed piece earlier is that minor league attendance is in decline. While it has fluctuated, year to year, Steinberg is right - attendance has been very stable over the last 10-20 years, certainly in the IL. See Page 74 of the document linked below, which shows the numbers since 1990 (average per date being most significant)
In the op-ed last month, Baumann also claimed that there was a limited three-year "honeymoon" period for new parks during which attendance would spike, but after which it would revert back to old levels. In the IL, this has not been the case in Charlotte, Columbus, and Scranton-Wilkes Barre where attendance remains much higher in Years 5, 9, and 11 (respectively) of their new parks.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 8, 2018 9:55:36 GMT -5
WG, what's is somewhat unknown is the extent of the business community's ticket purchasing. At least 17 businesses have agreed to spend a minimum of $100,000 to sponsor the team, receiving tickets in return, which they are free to dispense. If that business sponsorship is annual, attendance will be 'inflated' by at least several thousand per game.
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Post by rf1 on Sept 8, 2018 10:34:16 GMT -5
The only fallacy in Scoggins' argument is that McCoy needs work AAA team or A team, including stuff like improving access to the place. You think Lucchino and company would get the city or state to improve anything considering the current transactions? Makes no sense as well to move a franchise that is playing to near capacity.
The Spinners were started in 1996 and drew very well for their first decade which follows the normal pattern for new minor league baseball teams and or stadiums (similar to Pawtucket's highest season attendance numbers in the first decade after the 1999 McCoy expansion/renovation). Lowell's attendance has however more recently been in a decline for several years. Edward A. LeLacheur Park, built in 1998 at a cost of 11.2M, now has a seating capacity of 4,797 with a SRO total capacity of 5,030. The team averaged 3,381 in 2018.
Lowell Spinner Average Attendance 2018 3,381 2017 3,516 2016 3,782
2015 3,796 2014 4,346 2013 4,343 2012 4,547 2011 4,645 2010 5,446 2009 5,041 2008 5,394 2007 5,364 2006 5,344 2005 5,000
Keep in mind that the Single A short season has just 37 home games. The season runs in the warm weather months from mid June until in and around the end of August. This mirrors the out of school season for kids which is the peak baseball attendance time-frame. There are no cold weather April and May games on school nights to drag down attendance such as the case with Triple AAA (starts in early April and plays 70 home games).
Some of the decline at Lowell can likely be attributed to a bit less local passion and interest for the Boston Red Sox since their 2nd World Series win in 2007. It is worth noting that ticket availability increased, secondary market prices fell, and tv ratings for the Bosox fell off a bit after 2007 and I contend that this has translated over to its local farm teams in both Pawtucket and Lowell. Pawtucket however, unlike Lowell, also had the misfortune of being further hurt at the gate with a new ownership group who did not understand the local market and turned off many with new stadium demands.
As with the Bravehearts, the move of the Pawsox to Worcester is likely to have negative effects on the Lowell Spinners. People that live along routes 495 and 2, south and west of Lowell, may substitute some of their visits to LeLacheur Park with a trip to Worcester in two years. A close by higher level Red Sox affiliate with a brand new ballpark will not help the Spinner attendance.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 8, 2018 20:34:06 GMT -5
The only fallacy in Scoggins' argument is that McCoy needs work AAA team or A team, including stuff like improving access to the place. You think Lucchino and company would get the city or state to improve anything considering the current transactions? Makes no sense as well to move a franchise that is playing to near capacity.
The Spinners were started in 1996 and drew very well for their first decade which follows the normal pattern for new minor league baseball teams and or stadiums (similar to Pawtucket's highest season attendance numbers in the first decade after the 1999 McCoy expansion/renovation). Lowell's attendance has however more recently been in a decline for several years. Edward A. LeLacheur Park, built in 1998 at a cost of 11.2M, now has a seating capacity of 4,797 with a SRO total capacity of 5,030. The team averaged 3,381 in 2018.
Lowell Spinner Average Attendance 2018 3,381 2017 3,516 2016 3,782
2015 3,796 2014 4,346 2013 4,343 2012 4,547 2011 4,645 2010 5,446 2009 5,041 2008 5,394 2007 5,364 2006 5,344 2005 5,000
Keep in mind that the Single A short season has just 37 home games. The season runs in the warm weather months from mid June until in and around the end of August. This mirrors the out of school season for kids which is the peak baseball attendance time-frame. There are no cold weather April and May games on school nights to drag down attendance such as the case with Triple AAA (starts in early April and plays 70 home games).
Some of the decline at Lowell can likely be attributed to a bit less local passion and interest for the Boston Red Sox since their 2nd World Series win in 2007. It is worth noting that ticket availability increased, secondary market prices fell, and tv ratings for the Bosox fell off a bit after 2007 and I contend that this has translated over to its local farm teams in both Pawtucket and Lowell. Pawtucket however, unlike Lowell, also had the misfortune of being further hurt at the gate with a new ownership group who did not understand the local market and turned off many with new stadium demands.
As with the Bravehearts, the move of the Pawsox to Worcester is likely to have negative effects on the Lowell Spinners. People that live along routes 495 and 2, south and west of Lowell, may substitute some of their visits to LeLacheur Park with a trip to Worcester in two years. A close by higher level Red Sox affiliate with a brand new ballpark will not help the Spinner attendance.
Funny how there is no mention of Manchester’s minor league team hurting Lowell. Oh yeah, it’s only bad if Worcester has a team.
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Post by rf1 on Sept 9, 2018 9:55:27 GMT -5
The Spinners were started in 1996 and drew very well for their first decade which follows the normal pattern for new minor league baseball teams and or stadiums (similar to Pawtucket's highest season attendance numbers in the first decade after the 1999 McCoy expansion/renovation). Lowell's attendance has however more recently been in a decline for several years. Edward A. LeLacheur Park, built in 1998 at a cost of 11.2M, now has a seating capacity of 4,797 with a SRO total capacity of 5,030. The team averaged 3,381 in 2018.
Lowell Spinner Average Attendance 2018 3,381 2017 3,516 2016 3,782
2015 3,796 2014 4,346 2013 4,343 2012 4,547 2011 4,645 2010 5,446 2009 5,041 2008 5,394 2007 5,364 2006 5,344 2005 5,000
Keep in mind that the Single A short season has just 37 home games. The season runs in the warm weather months from mid June until in and around the end of August. This mirrors the out of school season for kids which is the peak baseball attendance time-frame. There are no cold weather April and May games on school nights to drag down attendance such as the case with Triple AAA (starts in early April and plays 70 home games).
Some of the decline at Lowell can likely be attributed to a bit less local passion and interest for the Boston Red Sox since their 2nd World Series win in 2007. It is worth noting that ticket availability increased, secondary market prices fell, and tv ratings for the Bosox fell off a bit after 2007 and I contend that this has translated over to its local farm teams in both Pawtucket and Lowell. Pawtucket however, unlike Lowell, also had the misfortune of being further hurt at the gate with a new ownership group who did not understand the local market and turned off many with new stadium demands.
As with the Bravehearts, the move of the Pawsox to Worcester is likely to have negative effects on the Lowell Spinners. People that live along routes 495 and 2, south and west of Lowell, may substitute some of their visits to LeLacheur Park with a trip to Worcester in two years. A close by higher level Red Sox affiliate with a brand new ballpark will not help the Spinner attendance.
Funny how there is no mention of Manchester’s minor league team hurting Lowell. Oh yeah, it’s only bad if Worcester has a team.
The NH Fisher Cats do not help Lowell but the great bulk of its fans come locally from the state of NH. Lowell was already having great attendance WITH a Manchester team already in place. With a Red Sox farm team nearby, MA people were and are not going up to Manchester to see a non Sox affiliated team, even if it is up a level. Also worth noting that the Fisher Cats were for a time owned in part by the Spinners owner Drew Weber. Worcester is a threat to Lowell as its attendance is already in decline and another higher level Red Sox farm team nearby in the same state will appeal to residents near Lowell, especially to the south and west along routes 495 and 2.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Sept 9, 2018 10:58:52 GMT -5
Funny how there is no mention of Manchester’s minor league team hurting Lowell. Oh yeah, it’s only bad if Worcester has a team.
The NH Fisher Cats do not help Lowell but the great bulk of its fans come locally from the state of NH. Lowell was already having great attendance WITH a Manchester team already in place. With a Red Sox farm team nearby, MA people were and are not going up to Manchester to see a non Sox affiliated team, even if it is up a level. Also worth noting that the Fisher Cats were for a time owned in part by the Spinners owner Drew Weber. Worcester is a threat to Lowell as its attendance is already in decline and another higher level Red Sox farm team nearby in the same state will appeal to residents near Lowell, especially to the south and west along routes 495 and 2.
I forgot, when Worcester does anything ambitious the interests of cities such as Pawtucket and Lowell should be thought of first. Worcester should never make decisions in its own interest. I don’t give a crap about how this move effects Lowell or Rhode Island. Now, I’m done with this thread. In the end I was right and the team moved to Worcester. Good day.
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Post by rf1 on Sept 9, 2018 18:32:30 GMT -5
The NH Fisher Cats do not help Lowell but the great bulk of its fans come locally from the state of NH. Lowell was already having great attendance WITH a Manchester team already in place. With a Red Sox farm team nearby, MA people were and are not going up to Manchester to see a non Sox affiliated team, even if it is up a level. Also worth noting that the Fisher Cats were for a time owned in part by the Spinners owner Drew Weber. Worcester is a threat to Lowell as its attendance is already in decline and another higher level Red Sox farm team nearby in the same state will appeal to residents near Lowell, especially to the south and west along routes 495 and 2.
I forgot, when Worcester does anything ambitious the interests of cities such as Pawtucket and Lowell should be thought of first. Worcester should never make decisions in its own interest. I don’t give a crap about how this move effects Lowell or Rhode Island. Now, I’m done with this thread. In the end I was right and the team moved to Worcester. Good day.
Just remember this with regards to other towns with better offers when the Railers and Woosox eventually move in future years like the Icecats and Sharks did before.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 10, 2018 7:58:23 GMT -5
I forgot, when Worcester does anything ambitious the interests of cities such as Pawtucket and Lowell should be thought of first. Worcester should never make decisions in its own interest. I don’t give a crap about how this move effects Lowell or Rhode Island. Now, I’m done with this thread. In the end I was right and the team moved to Worcester. Good day.
Just remember this concerning other towns with better offers when the Railers and Woosox eventually move in a future years like the Icecats and Sharks did before.
As I understand from a posting in this thread, the WooSox lease commitment is only 15 years. There is probably an early termination fee if the team leaves before then, but if the team leaves after 15 years and there is no penalty for doing so, Worcester is left still paying off the bonds.
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Post by Tom on Sept 10, 2018 8:24:05 GMT -5
I forgot, when Worcester does anything ambitious the interests of cities such as Pawtucket and Lowell should be thought of first. Worcester should never make decisions in its own interest. I don’t give a crap about how this move effects Lowell or Rhode Island. Now, I’m done with this thread. In the end I was right and the team moved to Worcester. Good day.
Just remember this concerning other towns with better offers when the Railers and Woosox eventually move in a future years like the Icecats and Sharks did before.
1) Yes - The Woo Sox will hurt the Spinners to some degree. Some people in the Rt 2 area west of 495 will go to Worcester instead of Lowell. Manchester also hurts Lowell to some degree as some Nashua people go to Fisher Cats instead of Spinners. That has already been calculated into the Lowell equation as long time neighbors/rivals 2) When the WooSox move (and I say when because minor league franchises move all the time. The Sox AAA has been in Pawtucket for a very long time by minor league affiliation standards going back to 1973, but the Sox have had AAA in other places for decades prior to that. Towards that point the affiliation can change and still have a team. The Yankees were in Columbus Ohio for a long time - now I think the Clippers belong to the Indians. (very nice of them to honor Dom Dimaggio's brother with that name). Anyhow, after long winded tangent, when the WooSox move, it will be nothing like the Icecats or Sharks, I do not anticipate moving the team any closer to the parent club than Worcester
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 10, 2018 8:56:15 GMT -5
I suppose both sides of this debate are as worked up as they are because this is a Sox minor league team; local politics; taxes; civic pride; abandonment issues; and other factors. For the most part, this issue seems to resonate with 4 or 5 passionate posters and a couple of disinterested observers.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 11, 2018 8:59:26 GMT -5
Just remember this concerning other towns with better offers when the Railers and Woosox eventually move in a future years like the Icecats and Sharks did before.
1) Yes - The Woo Sox will hurt the Spinners to some degree. Some people in the Rt 2 area west of 495 will go to Worcester instead of Lowell. Manchester also hurts Lowell to some degree as some Nashua people go to Fisher Cats instead of Spinners. That has already been calculated into the Lowell equation as long time neighbors/rivals 2) When the WooSox move (and I say when because minor league franchises move all the time. The Sox AAA has been in Pawtucket for a very long time by minor league affiliation standards going back to 1973, but the Sox have had AAA in other places for decades prior to that. Towards that point the affiliation can change and still have a team. The Yankees were in Columbus Ohio for a long time - now I think the Clippers belong to the Indians. (very nice of them to honor Dom Dimaggio's brother with that name). Anyhow, after long winded tangent, when the WooSox move, it will be nothing like the Icecats or Sharks, I do not anticipate moving the team any closer to the parent club than Worcester Vlad Guerrero Jr. had to have affected the Lowell attendance this year- he was a guy playing for Manchester worth seeing. One thing about Lowell is that there have been seasons where they had a highly touted draftee playing for them. However, not the past few years. That would be my concern for Worcester as well. AAA baseball seems different than it was not that long ago. The real quality guys are in AA. AAA seems primarily a shuttle to and from the bigs combined with people rehabbing.
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