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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 17, 2018 8:25:45 GMT -5
The costs for ballpark construction are insane
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Post by rf1 on Jun 17, 2018 10:32:39 GMT -5
The costs for ballpark construction are insane
The RI stadium proposal calls for a 10,000 seat stadium costing 83 million dollars. That does not seem as bad when compared to the new stadium in Hartford that opened just last year. The much smaller (seats 6,121) Dunkin Donuts Park in Hartford, CT ended up costing some 71M with its cost overruns. The venue, home of the AA Yard Goats (poached from nearby New Britain, CT), was entirely financed by the City of Hartford.
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Post by rf1 on Jun 17, 2018 14:18:48 GMT -5
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Jun 17, 2018 20:56:13 GMT -5
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Post by rf1 on Jun 18, 2018 7:58:14 GMT -5
If Worcester and the State of Massachusetts are offering nearly twice (60M vs 38M) the public taxpayer money that Pawtucket and RI can offer, it might actually happen. I however feel the team would never reach the potential (attendance, attention, revenues) in Worcester that it would have in RI. It however might make the owners richer with them contributing so little of their own money.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 18, 2018 10:25:18 GMT -5
Would love to see affiliated baseball in Worcester, which has an old but important minor league history, primarily in the Eastern League. Some might be underestimating how well a AAA team will draw here. It's a lot easier to get to Worcester than Pawtucket from the north (Leominster, Fitrchburg, Gardner), the east (Marlborough, Framingham), and the west (Springfield) - those six communities alone have a population of 360,000, while Worcester and its burbs have 200,000+.
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Post by rf1 on Jun 18, 2018 10:43:59 GMT -5
Would love to see affiliated baseball in Worcester, which has an old but important minor league history, primarily in the Eastern League. Some might be underestimating how well a AAA team will draw here. It's a lot easier to get to Worcester than Pawtucket from the north (Leominster, Fitrchburg, Gardner), the east (Marlborough, Framingham), and the west (Springfield) - those six communities alone have a population of 360,000, while Worcester and its burbs have 200,000+.
It is a lot easier to get to Pawtucket from all of the south shore and SE Mass. Metro Providence also has a population of some 1.6M while Worcester is 900K. The proposed park land in Pawtucket actually borders the well traveled route 95. The Providence tv stations heavily promote the PawSox. Worcester cannot compete in these facets. It is a much lesser market and always will be. The PawSox owners would be wise to look at the recent history of AHL teams in both markets for possible examples of their future.
Worcester vs Pawtucket/Providence market population comparison (proposed Pawtucket Stadium is on Route 95 just 5 miles from downtown Providence)
Worcester Market (935,536) Worcester 180,519 Shrewsbury 35,269 Milbury 13,250 Auburn 16,183 Holden 17,197 Grafton 17,472 W Boylston 7,660 Paxton 4,767 Leicester 10,934 Northborough 14,180 Boylston 4,320 Westborough 18,285 Sutton 8,908 Leominster 40,884 Fitchburg 40,286
Pawtucket-Providence Market (1.61M) Pawtucket 71,148 Providence 178,042 Attleboro, MA 43,593 Seekonk, MA 14,371 N Attleborough, MA 28,712 East Providence 47,037 North Providence 32,480 Central Falls 19,328 Cumberland 32,506 Lincoln 21,105 Cranston 80,387 Woonsocket 41,186 Warwick 82,672 W Warwick 29,788
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 18, 2018 10:50:13 GMT -5
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Post by rf1 on Jun 18, 2018 11:06:15 GMT -5
GolocalProv is not a reputable news source. It just posts juicy headlines to get more clicks. I therefore refuse to open any links to it. My guess is the story you reference has no author and no reputable source. That is how that site typically works.
From 1999 to 2011 under the previous managment, Pawtucket was drawing some 600k per season with an all time high of 688,421 in 2005.
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Post by gks on Jun 18, 2018 13:20:29 GMT -5
The PawSox/WooSox market areas overlap. What you would potentially lose from SE Mass Worcester would gain from Route 2 corridor and also Marlborough/Hudson area which was not included in the list above. A good portion of a PawSox crowd is already from the Worcester/CMass area. It's very easy to get to Pawtucket from Worcester (as would a reverse trip if team were to move). As for Providence TV stations, their coverage of the PawSox is surprising minimal, which makes no sense in my point of view.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 18, 2018 13:30:54 GMT -5
Attendance for the PawSox peaked at about 9,500 in 2005, and has been in general decline since then. Last year, they barely cracked 7,000.
The Worcester Bravehearts - with their roster of never-wases and never-will-bes going nowhere fast - drew 2,500 per in 2017. An affiliated AAA team will likely do much better than that.
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Post by rf1 on Jun 18, 2018 15:35:44 GMT -5
Attendance for the PawSox peaked at about 9,500 in 2005, and has been in general decline since then. Last year, they barely cracked 7,000. The Worcester Bravehearts - with their roster of never-wases and never-will-bes going nowhere fast - drew 2,500 per in 2017. An affiliated AAA team will likely do much better than that.
Attendance may currently be in decline but it shows what could be achieved in Pawtucket. I personally don't think a ballpark in Worcester would ever attract an average of 9.5k or 688K for a season. If it could, the city would not be on its third minor league hockey team in the last twelve years.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 18, 2018 15:45:41 GMT -5
Well, I guess we won't be seeing you at the park.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 18, 2018 15:53:16 GMT -5
The Portland Sea Dogs are the AA team for the Red Sox and draw 5,000+ per game in a smaller city than Worcester. The AAA team should be able to draw well more than that number
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 18, 2018 17:47:50 GMT -5
If I had to guess, the driving force to attendance in either location is the affiliation with the Boston Red Sox parent organization. And, guessing further, while there are a lot of BoSox fans in Rhode Island, there is also a strong contingent of Yankee fans who couldn't care less about PawSox unless maybe they are playing the Yankee Columbus Clipper team and/or don't care about minor league baseball at any level because they are, after all, fans of the greatest dynasty in American sports (and while I no longer follow MLB, I was once a Yankee fan, after being a Brooklyn Dodger fan but became a Mets fan after all true and real Yankees [Mantle, Ford, Berra, etc.] retired and then gave up on it after the baseball strike).
Again, guessing even further, Worcester baseball fans having demonstrated that they'll show up for lesser baseball teams at Hanover Park and probably have at least as great an affinity for RedSox as Rhode Islanders will show up in greater numbers for a WooSox team.
And the bottom, bottom line is that whichever location will bring the highest return on investment will be the one that "wins" as the PawSox have not been owned by a Rhode Islander for a while now and since it is no longer a family run organization, it truly is a business, and those tend to make decisions less by heart and tradition and more with their head and pocketbooks.
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Post by DiMarz on Jun 18, 2018 18:41:10 GMT -5
Would love to see affiliated baseball in Worcester, which has an old but important minor league history, primarily in the Eastern League. Some might be underestimating how well a AAA team will draw here. It's a lot easier to get to Worcester than Pawtucket from the north (Leominster, Fitrchburg, Gardner), the east (Marlborough, Framingham), and the west (Springfield) - those six communities alone have a population of 360,000, while Worcester and its burbs have 200,000+.
It is a lot easier to get to Pawtucket from all of the south shore and SE Mass. Metro Providence also has a population of some 1.6M while Worcester is 900K. The proposed park land in Pawtucket actually borders the well traveled route 95. The Providence tv stations heavily promote the PawSox. Worcester cannot compete in these facets. It is a much lesser market and always will be. The PawSox owners would be wise to look at the recent history of AHL teams in both markets for possible examples of their future.
Worcester vs Pawtucket/Providence market population comparison (proposed Pawtucket Stadium is on Route 95 just 5 miles from downtown Providence)
Worcester Market (935,536) Worcester 180,519 Shrewsbury 35,269 Milbury 13,250 Auburn 16,183 Holden 17,197 Grafton 17,472 W Boylston 7,660 Paxton 4,767 Leicester 10,934 Northborough 14,180 Boylston 4,320 Westborough 18,285 Sutton 8,908 Leominster 40,884 Fitchburg 40,286
Pawtucket-Providence Market (1.61M) Pawtucket 71,148 Providence 178,042 Attleboro, MA 43,593 Seekonk, MA 14,371 N Attleborough, MA 28,712 East Providence 47,037 North Providence 32,480 Central Falls 19,328 Cumberland 32,506 Lincoln 21,105 Cranston 80,387 Woonsocket 41,186 Warwick 82,672 W Warwick 29,788
I think one has to look at the population within an hours drive...That would jump the Worcester market significantly, and include my towns 1,700 population and NAD hometown of Marlboro at 38,500...
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Post by rf1 on Jun 18, 2018 18:56:14 GMT -5
It is a lot easier to get to Pawtucket from all of the south shore and SE Mass. Metro Providence also has a population of some 1.6M while Worcester is 900K. The proposed park land in Pawtucket actually borders the well traveled route 95. The Providence tv stations heavily promote the PawSox. Worcester cannot compete in these facets. It is a much lesser market and always will be. The PawSox owners would be wise to look at the recent history of AHL teams in both markets for possible examples of their future.
Worcester vs Pawtucket/Providence market population comparison (proposed Pawtucket Stadium is on Route 95 just 5 miles from downtown Providence)
Worcester Market (935,536) Worcester 180,519 Shrewsbury 35,269 Milbury 13,250 Auburn 16,183 Holden 17,197 Grafton 17,472 W Boylston 7,660 Paxton 4,767 Leicester 10,934 Northborough 14,180 Boylston 4,320 Westborough 18,285 Sutton 8,908 Leominster 40,884 Fitchburg 40,286
Pawtucket-Providence Market (1.61M) Pawtucket 71,148 Providence 178,042 Attleboro, MA 43,593 Seekonk, MA 14,371 N Attleborough, MA 28,712 East Providence 47,037 North Providence 32,480 Central Falls 19,328 Cumberland 32,506 Lincoln 21,105 Cranston 80,387 Woonsocket 41,186 Warwick 82,672 W Warwick 29,788
I think one has to look at the population within an hours drive...That would jump the Worcester market significantly, and include my towns 1,700 population and NAD hometown of Marlboro at 38,500...
So you also want to add cities to the Providence market like: Taunton, MA 55,874 Fall River, MA 87,103
Swansea, MA 15,865
Somerset, MA 18,165 Barrington, RI 16,310 East Greewich, RI 13,146 N Kingstown 26,197
Mansfield, MA 23,184
Foxboro, MA 16,693
Providence will end up having far more population within an hour.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 18, 2018 19:05:48 GMT -5
I think one has to look at the population within an hours drive...That would jump the Worcester market significantly, and include my towns 1,700 population and NAD hometown of Marlboro at 38,500... And Framingham (70,000), Hudson (20,000). Springfield (150,000) - all within an hour of Worcester, which would be the closest site for their residents to watch affiliated minor league baseball.
Not to mention all those newly-abandoned souls in Rhode Island . . . where are they going to go? New Britain?
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Post by deep Purple on Jun 18, 2018 20:55:31 GMT -5
I think one has to look at the population within an hours drive...That would jump the Worcester market significantly, and include my towns 1,700 population and NAD hometown of Marlboro at 38,500... And Framingham (70,000), Hudson (20,000). Springfield (150,000) - all within an hour of Worcester, which would be the closest site for their residents to watch affiliated minor league baseball.
Not to mention all those newly-abandoned souls in Rhode Island . . . where are they going to go? New Britain?
How about southern NH?
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 18, 2018 23:24:59 GMT -5
Attendance for the PawSox peaked at about 9,500 in 2005, and has been in general decline since then. Last year, they barely cracked 7,000. The Worcester Bravehearts - with their roster of never-wases and never-will-bes going nowhere fast - drew 2,500 per in 2017. An affiliated AAA team will likely do much better than that. As I've mentioned several times, the Bravehearts are a summer collegiate club made up exclusively of college players with eligibility left, NOT an independent professional club of wash-outs like the Tornadoes were. So to refer to Bravehearts as such is very misinformed.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 19, 2018 4:52:40 GMT -5
My apologies to the Bravehearts and their fans. Consider me better educated now.
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Post by Tom on Jun 19, 2018 8:08:05 GMT -5
If I had to guess, the driving force to attendance in either location is the affiliation with the Boston Red Sox parent organization. And, guessing further, while there are a lot of BoSox fans in Rhode Island, there is also a strong contingent of Yankee fans who couldn't care less about PawSox unless maybe they are playing the Yankee Columbus Clipper team and/or don't care about minor league baseball at any level because they are, after all, fans of the greatest dynasty in American sports (and while I no longer follow MLB, I was once a Yankee fan, after being a Brooklyn Dodger fan but became a Mets fan after all true and real Yankees [Mantle, Ford, Berra, etc.] retired and then gave up on it after the baseball strike). With apologies to Joe Dimaggio the Yankee Clipper, and also to pick on my Hart Center neighbor, the Columbus Clippers have been AAA for the Indians for the past decade or so. Yankees are now affiliated with Scranton.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 19, 2018 12:48:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I told you I lost interest in MLB. At one point both Columbus and Syracuse were AAA Yankee teams. They gave up Syracuse to Toronto to keep Columbus. Having lived near both and when each was a Yankee farm team, I would get occasional comp tickets from my company which had box seats.
Did not know (or maybe did not remember) Yankees gave up Columbus. Columbus’ stadium the best, PawSox McCoy next but Syracuse pretty much a dump.
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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Jun 20, 2018 7:48:37 GMT -5
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Post by rf1 on Jun 21, 2018 7:07:10 GMT -5
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