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Post by sader1970 on Sept 30, 2018 5:49:12 GMT -5
While I think it is a bit hyperbolic to say most D-III teams could beat Bucknell and I don't think firing an assistant coach in mid-season is anywhere near as catastrophic as firing the head coach as was done last year, I am not suggesting Murphy be fired, just have someone else do the play calling. Switch Murphy's role with another assistant. Who that might be is best decided by Coach Chesney.
In my opinion, either the play calling or the QB needs to be changed, or both. We saw yesterday that under the right circumstances, Geoff can throw it downfield but too often he is throwing off balance or off the wrong foot.
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Post by sader81 on Sept 30, 2018 6:18:55 GMT -5
The team is work in progress. I thought they would be a bit further along at this point, but there was a lot of work to do. A former D-1 assistant & D-3 head coach who has visited the program told me months ago that this will be over a two year rebuilding project. I have a lot of respect for his judgement, but I hoped he was too pessimistic. Have to be patient!
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Post by crusader12 on Sept 30, 2018 6:43:06 GMT -5
As bad as this season is I expected HC to be 1-4 at this point. But not 0-2 in PL.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Sept 30, 2018 6:52:51 GMT -5
I have been annoyed with a lot of the play calling during the first five games, but letting someone go in the middle of the first season just seems a bit much to me.
Yesterday, the team sure did not look "well coached". But, too often I think players skate a bit in these kind of situations. Case in point: we had a new coach my senior year in high school. In one of my rare appearances in an actual game, I jumped the gun on an extra point attempt. Was that bad coaching? No, it was me being a dumba$$. We had experienced 7 straight losing seasons prior to this coach's arrival. In 4 years they were Super Bowl champs (RIP Coach Huck Hannigan, MIAA Hall of Famer).
I hate to be critical of kids, but the loss of Peter Pujals cannot be overstated imho. I truly believe he would have covered up a lot of these deficiencies we are seeing right now. Don't we have to give Coach Chesney at least a couple of years to get a kid of his own in here, and then coach him up?
One thing that I don't believe has been mentioned about the game: as bad as it was to have kids rushing hard on that punt (i could see if they were 2 scores down), challenging the call to me was a waste. Might not have made a difference, but having that timeout might have given the offense an extra 25-30 seconds to work with at the end.
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Post by td128 on Sept 30, 2018 7:07:53 GMT -5
Team Statistics (Final) 2018 Holy Cross Football Bucknell vs Holy Cross (Sep 29, 2018 at Worcester, Mass.)
BUCKNELL HC
FIRST DOWNS................... 16 21 Rushing..................... 5 9 Passing..................... 8 11 Penalty..................... 3 1 NET YARDS RUSHING.......135 120 Rushing Attempts............ 35 46 Average Per Rush............ 3.9 2.6 Rushing Touchdowns.......... 1 1 Yards Gained Rushing........ 154 169 Yards Lost Rushing.......... 19 49 NET YARDS PASSING.......193 265 Completions-Attempts-Int...19-29-1 18-32-0 Average Per Attempt......... 6.7 8.3 Average Per Completion....10.2 14.7 Passing Touchdowns.......... 1 1 TOTAL OFFENSE YARDS...328 385 Total offense plays......... 64 78 Average Gain Per Play....... 5.1 4.9 Fumbles: Number-Lost.......0-0 1-1 Penalties: Number-Yards...4-60 9-88 PUNTS-YARDS................6-291 8-317 Average Yards Per Punt.....48.5 39.6 Net Yards Per Punt.......... 44.2 30.2 Inside 20................... 2 2 50+ Yards................... 3 1 Touchbacks.................. 1 0 Fair catch.................. 2 3 KICKOFFS-YARDS.......... 6-388 3-181 Average Yards Per Kickoff... 64.7 60.3 Net Yards Per Kickoff....... 46.0 43.3 Touchbacks.................. 1 0 Punt returns: Number-Yards-TD. 5-75-0 3-6-0 Average Per Return.......... 15.0 2.0 Kickoff returns: Number-Yds-TD 3-51-0 4-87-0 Average Per Return.......... 17.0 21.8 Interceptions: Number-Yds-TD.. 0-0-0 1-27-0 Fumble Returns: Number-Yds-TD. 0-0-0 0-0-0 Miscellaneous Yards........... 0 0 Possession Time............... 30:30 29:30 1st Quarter................. 4:36 10:24 2nd Quarter................. 7:49 7:11 3rd Quarter................. 7:10 7:50 4th Quarter................. 10:55 4:05 Third-Down Conversions.....4 of 15 6 of 17 Fourth-Down Conversions....... 0 of 0 0 of 3 Red-Zone Scores-Chances....... 2-3 1-2 Touchdowns.................. 0-3 1-2 Field goals................. 2-3 0-2 Sacks By: Number-Yards........ 3-27 2-13 PAT Kicks..................... 1-1 2-2 Field Goals................... 2-3 0-0 Points off turnovers.......... 7 0
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Post by hcpride on Sept 30, 2018 8:19:53 GMT -5
As bad as this season is I expected HC to be 1-4 at this point. But not 0-2 in PL. Gotta agree. 4-7 in a rebuilding season following back-to-back 4-7 seasons seems to be about where we are heading...and aligns with many predictions here on Crossports. Doubtlessly they'll be an upset (in our favor and against us) here and there as we progress thru the season. 1-4 is not at all a surprise....I'd assume most of us see Laffy and GU as games we can win and Fordham to be a close one.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 30, 2018 8:56:01 GMT -5
I will make three additional observations.
1.) The opening kickoff was returned from 2-3 yards deep in the endzone by a player not named K. Raymond. He struggled to get to the 16 yard line. Unless the film showed Bucknell's kickoff team to be ponderously slow, he should have been instructed to take a knee. That is coaching.
2.) Last year, Cole Tracy attempted 29 FG. This year, through five games, HC kickers have attempted three.
3.) Assumption is 4-1. Their one loss was to Kutztown by four points., Kutztown is a traditionally strong team. In each of their four victories, the Greyhounds have not scored fewer than 49 points.
What all three suggest to me is that coaches whose entire experience is in Div II and III have not yet adjusted to the speed and recognition ability of defenses in Division !.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 30, 2018 9:33:55 GMT -5
Rome wasn’t built in a day. We’re not firing any coaches mid-season in year one of the new regime. I was not excited by the Murphy hiring when it was made and nothing to date has changed my mind about that. Let’s see how things go the rest of the season and make adjustments as needed in the off-season. We will have a different QB next season, someone who may or may not currently be on the roster.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 30, 2018 9:38:34 GMT -5
Sorry, while I think Coach Chesney was a great hire, I am not giving him 2-3 years to turn the program around. I may be thick, and have been accused of that in the past, but I don't "buy" that we had a bad team last year and Chesney is building from scratch. I also don't buy the crap that you are what your record says you are. And, I also don't buy that this bad start is all because we've lost Pujals. The O-line last year was filled with 5th year seniors and played poorly in most games. We've got a younger, smaller but perhaps ultimately better line as the bar was set pretty low to jump over up front. The play calling has been as bad as under Rock (who should have been fired, not "promoted" to interim head coach). Chesney took truly bad programs and turned them around almost immediately. I thought, and still have hope, that he'll do the same at HC. As for him understanding the speed of D-I teams, the opponents may have more speed than he faced at Assumption but the HC players should also have the same speed too. Gilliam is a jet. Cozier is quick as he showed especially in the first quarter yesterday. But he doesn't have the heft or strength to making dives up the middle. And while I can't judge Dorsey's speed, my prediction is at 6'3" and able to get open, and great hands, he's got a shot at the NFL. Unless you can make a case that the plays that are run are different in D-IAA then D-II or D-III, I don't think that's an excuse. College football is college football. The players are better, faster and bigger but that it on both sides of the ball - unless you are playing BC or Syracuse. This is a young and inexperienced team and they will get better but thought they'd be further along. Wade is neither young nor inexperienced. He is not getting the job done. Is that on him or the coaches/play calling? I think it is a little of both.
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Post by moose1970 on Sept 30, 2018 10:50:54 GMT -5
This thread should not exist. It is an insult to the man who has been a very successful coach at each school where he has worked. Judging him after a few games is ridiculous. true, the thread could have been worded differently. but i think that everyone on crossports is all in on coach c. (as we should be) just looking for a way out of the forest here. nature of the beast is to second guess which does include coaching decisions. of course keep in mind that it is a much different feel when you are on the field or sidelines during a game. “You can't understand someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.” pax,
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Post by gks on Sept 30, 2018 11:20:27 GMT -5
I think the defense has mostly been very good this season. Special teams has been average. Our offense has been nothing short of a disaster. Our QB situation is certainly partially to blame, but the biggest issue is with the man calling the plays. Time to turn over those duties to Ari C. Please suggest what play calls would be better. You have a QB right now that can barely throw a 10 yard pass. If he's under any type of pressure...forget it.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 30, 2018 11:26:01 GMT -5
I thought in the games this year he hit receivers downfield who then went 30, 60 and 70 yards. Is that "barely?" I feel it shows he can do it in the right circumstances. Now I hope he against UNH gets time to find a receiver and a chance throw the pass before being overwhelmed or having to run for his life. Fewer missed blocks (or more ability to hold blocks) might make him a better passer.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 30, 2018 11:51:26 GMT -5
This thread should not exist. It is an insult to the man who has been a very successful coach at each school where he has worked. Judging him after a few games is ridiculous. true, the thread could have been worded differently. but i think that everyone on crossports is all in on coach c. (as we should be) just looking for a way out of the forest here. nature of the beast is to second guess which does include coaching decisions. of course keep in mind that it is a much different feel when you are on the field or sidelines during a game. “You can't understand someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.” pax, Moose, I would definitely say the "43" guy is not in on coach c, and is using coach m as the easiest way to keep taking shots at him. Don't know his motivation, his avatar might indicate he was a former Gilmore or Allen player (if that's him in his avatar that is an end-of-the-Allen-regime jersey).
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Post by putter1 on Sept 30, 2018 12:19:31 GMT -5
I will make three additional observations. 1.) The opening kickoff was returned from 2-3 yards deep in the endzone by a player not named K. Raymond. He struggled to get to the 16 yard line. Unless the film showed Bucknell's kickoff team to be ponderously slow, he should have been instructed to take a knee. That is coaching. 2.) Last year, Cole Tracy attempted 29 FG. This year, through five games, HC kickers have attempted three. 3.) Assumption is 4-1. Their one loss was to Kutztown by four points., Kutztown is a traditionally strong team. In each of their four victories, the Greyhounds have not scored fewer than 49 points. What all three suggest to me is that coaches whose entire experience is in Div II and III have not yet adjusted to the speed and recognition ability of defenses in Division !. . You truly have no idea about what you are talking about. Every post makes you sound more ignorant than the previous. I realize you never played football so I guess you can be excused, as hard as that may be.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 30, 2018 12:38:11 GMT -5
Pak,
1. KR had graduated so it is good he was not in there. Had you expected him? 2. Of course, every game is different and FGs are tried as the field position, score and personnel dictate. What is your point? 3. Yes. The group that Coach Chesney assembled and coached is still doing well with the knowledge and skills he gave them. Once again what is your point?
This post shows you seem to have issues with Coach Chesney and his staff, but it does not show much else. Your posts are typically much better (and more objective) than this.
I would add as a non-football player myself, that whether or not one played the game is not a major factor in judging any observation. After all, some celibate clergy make very good marriage counselors...at least in my observatons and experience as a counseling professor?
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 30, 2018 12:41:46 GMT -5
Unlike our offense, putter, you are fast out of the gate as a poster.
Educate us non-players where Phreek is wrong. I didn't play at Holy Cross either but my observation has been that we routinely run back kickoffs in the end zone with absolutely no immediate evaluation to stay or return when the ball doesn't go through the end zone and a required touchback. We have very, very rarely made it back to the 25 where we would start if the kick receiver took a knee. This indicates to me that Chesney is a risk taker more than other coaches we've had. Not a bad thing necessarily but certainly the results have been less than if we took a knee and thus we start in not as good field position.
Phreek's second observation, and that's what it was, an observation, not a critique, was that we have attempted less field goals. I haven't checked his stat but when it comes to those, I'll put my money on him rather than you as a novice here. He's got a proven track record here. I have also observed that we have a long-range placekicker in Ng who comes to us with a great reputation. He hasn't attempted many FGs. Of course, that's mostly because the offense hasn't gotten us even close enough for him to try.
His third is about Chesney's former team. I am not sure what his point was other than that Assumption is doing well even with Chesney now departed and they are a high scoring team. It's an observation and until he posts some conclusions, that's what they are. And that's true whether he played football or otherwise.
I am grateful for the many perspectives that our many posters bring to the discussion: ex-football players, LAX players, non-alums, stat geeks, Worcesterites, and even our Patriot League opponents or other interested folks, etc. Just because he didn't play, doesn't mean Phreek can't make a contribution to the discussion.
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Post by deep Purple on Sept 30, 2018 13:22:06 GMT -5
I will make three additional observations. 1.) The opening kickoff was returned from 2-3 yards deep in the endzone by a player not named K. Raymond. He struggled to get to the 16 yard line. Unless the film showed Bucknell's kickoff team to be ponderously slow, he should have been instructed to take a knee. That is coaching. 2.) Last year, Cole Tracy attempted 29 FG. This year, through five games, HC kickers have attempted three. 3.) Assumption is 4-1. Their one loss was to Kutztown by four points., Kutztown is a traditionally strong team. In each of their four victories, the Greyhounds have not scored fewer than 49 points. What all three suggest to me is that coaches whose entire experience is in Div II and III have not yet adjusted to the speed and recognition ability of defenses in Division !. . You truly have no idea about what you are talking about. Every post makes you sound more ignorant than the previous. I realize you never played football so I guess you can be excused, as hard as that may be. Which of his points do you disagree with? And why?
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Post by deep Purple on Sept 30, 2018 13:47:15 GMT -5
This indicates to me that Chesney is a risk taker more than other coaches we've had. I wonder if it's a matter of him being a risk taker or does he give his players the green light in making those decisions?
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Post by gks on Sept 30, 2018 14:00:17 GMT -5
I will make three additional observations. 1.) The opening kickoff was returned from 2-3 yards deep in the endzone by a player not named K. Raymond. He struggled to get to the 16 yard line. Unless the film showed Bucknell's kickoff team to be ponderously slow, he should have been instructed to take a knee. That is coaching. 2.) Last year, Cole Tracy attempted 29 FG. This year, through five games, HC kickers have attempted three. 3.) Assumption is 4-1. Their one loss was to Kutztown by four points., Kutztown is a traditionally strong team. In each of their four victories, the Greyhounds have not scored fewer than 49 points. What all three suggest to me is that coaches whose entire experience is in Div II and III have not yet adjusted to the speed and recognition ability of defenses in Division !. . 1. Don't know why kick was brought out of the end zone. Maybe saw weakness in Bucknell coverage. 2. This a ridiculous comment and shows lack of basic football knowledge...Assumption kicked that many FGs because they were always in scoring position. Can't kick FGs when you're constantly producing three and outs deep in your own end. 3. Assumption is still loaded with Chesney's 'guys'. He brought this group to the Final Four of NCAA D2 football. Have you ever seen Assumption play either this season or in the past few? They would probably come close to beating HC this year because they have TALENT. Please stick to accounting and numbers....
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 30, 2018 15:06:04 GMT -5
mm67, respectfully disagree and here's why: Stats for the game show that the Bucknell punt that resulted in the roughing the kicker and the new life for the Bison by giving them 15 yards and a first down, show indeed that was the Bison punter's longest punt of the day, 54 yards and returned by DiNicola from the HC 22 to the HC 26 which is where we would have gotten the ball with, from memory 5+ minutes left and 2 timeouts left. The average starting position for HC for the game was the HC 22, so without the penalty, we would have started 4 yards in better field position. Of course, this is with 20/20 hindsight. Had we blocked the punt, we would have all said Chesney was a genius. An argument can also be made that if he didn't send a gang rush to block the punt, we may have gotten an even better return than the 4 yards DiNicola got. My thought when it was live in front of me was, we had time and let's get a nice return because we came close to running into the kicker almost every Bucknell punt and I was afraid what was going to happen, would. I watched it pretty carefully and when I saw our player sliding on the turf near the punter's feet, I suspected a dive was coming. Again, I think Chesney is a high risk/high rewards coach and he rightfully might have had serious reservations that the sputtering offense was capable of going about 75-80 yards for a TD but at that point, we could have tried to pull another Yale and just get Ng close enough for a tying field goal to try to win in overtime. Could we have gotten another 40 yards or so for a possible Ng FG? Who knows? Guess that's why we have Crossports.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 15:54:50 GMT -5
true, the thread could have been worded differently. but i think that everyone on crossports is all in on coach c. (as we should be) just looking for a way out of the forest here. nature of the beast is to second guess which does include coaching decisions. of course keep in mind that it is a much different feel when you are on the field or sidelines during a game. “You can't understand someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.” pax, Moose, I would definitely say the "43" guy is not in on coach c, and is using coach m as the easiest way to keep taking shots at him. Don't know his motivation, his avatar might indicate he was a former Gilmore or Allen player (if that's him in his avatar that is an end-of-the-Allen-regime jersey). I believe in Coach Chesney and definitely think he was headed in the right direction until Liam Cohen departed unexpectedly prior to the season. He did the best he could with the Murphy hire, however, he does not have the resume/pedigree to be at an FCS program. The great thing about football (and most sports) is that it is driven by outcome and removes the constant focus on political correctness. Murphy may be a great person, but he is not a good football coach at any level (the statistics back that up). I played with Chris Smith and Ari Confessor and would feel more confident at this stage in putting them into game planning/play calling role. That may be ignorant, but what is there to lose? There is NO FUTURE with Murphy and the team is in a worst place than they were last year. I did play for Coach Allen in 2003 and was part of a 1-11 team that was horrendous. The following years under Gilmore we went 3-8, 6-5, and then 7-4 (should have been 8-3, however, we missed two, 20 yard field goals). During my time at HC, I had four position coaches and four defensive coordinators, but always improved and generated better outcomes (as a player and as as team). I played with 6sader7 and we witnessed probably 40-50 different coaches/players quit the program from 2003-2006. To be honest, I think the "no bs" approach helped the program greatly and left the strongest contingent. I respect many people on this board and love HC, however, take a more black/white, old school approach when looking at results. If I didn't have that mentality, I wouldn't have graduated from HC or be talking on this board.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 16:11:44 GMT -5
To add to the post above, I think Scott James (Defensive Coordinator) was a great hire. Proven track record, good enthusiasm, and generated positive outcomes in every phase of his career.
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Post by putter1 on Sept 30, 2018 16:34:42 GMT -5
mm67, respectfully disagree and here's why: Stats for the game show that the Bucknell punt that resulted in the roughing the kicker and the new life for the Bison by giving them 15 yards and a first down, show indeed that was the Bison punter's longest punt of the day, 54 yards and returned by DiNicola from the HC 22 to the HC 26 which is where we would have gotten the ball with, from memory 5+ minutes left and 2 timeouts left. The average starting position for HC for the game was the HC 22, so without the penalty, we would have started 4 yards in better field position. Of course, this is with 20/20 hindsight. Had we blocked the punt, we would have all said Chesney was a genius. An argument can also be made that if he didn't send a gang rush to block the punt, we may have gotten an even better return than the 4 yards DiNicola got. My thought when it was live in front of me was, we had time and let's get a nice return because we came close to running into the kicker almost every Bucknell punt and I was afraid what was going to happen, would. I watched it pretty carefully and when I saw our player sliding on the turf near the punter's feet, I suspected a dive was coming. Again, I think Chesney is a high risk/high rewards coach and he rightfully might have had serious reservations that the sputtering offense was capable of going about 75-80 yards for a TD but at that point, we could have tried to pull another Yale and just get Ng close enough for a tying field goal to try to win in overtime. Could we have gotten another 40 yards or so for a possible Ng FG? Who knows? Guess that's why we have Crossports.
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Post by putter1 on Sept 30, 2018 16:37:37 GMT -5
You forgot to mention that the defense had continually stopped Bucknell. With that in mind, going for the block made total sense. Holy Cross hadn't moved the ball since the second series except for a hail mary. With an offense that can't move the ball you need to hope that special teams can make things happen.
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Post by putter1 on Sept 30, 2018 16:39:21 GMT -5
Sorry, while I think Coach Chesney was a great hire, I am not giving him 2-3 years to turn the program around. I may be thick, and have been accused of that in the past, but I don't "buy" that we had a bad team last year and Chesney is building from scratch. I also don't buy the crap that you are what your record says you are. And, I also don't buy that this bad start is all because we've lost Pujals. The O-line last year was filled with 5th year seniors and played poorly in most games. We've got a younger, smaller but perhaps ultimately better line as the bar was set pretty low to jump over up front. The play calling has been as bad as under Rock (who should have been fired, not "promoted" to interim head coach). Chesney took truly bad programs and turned them around almost immediately. I thought, and still have hope, that he'll do the same at HC. As for him understanding the speed of D-I teams, the opponents may have more speed than he faced at Assumption but the HC players should also have the same speed too. Gilliam is a jet. Cozier is quick as he showed especially in the first quarter yesterday. But he doesn't have the heft or strength to making dives up the middle. And while I can't judge Dorsey's speed, my prediction is at 6'3" and able to get open, and great hands, he's got a shot at the NFL. Unless you can make a case that the plays that are run are different in D-IAA then D-II or D-III, I don't think that's an excuse. College football is college football. The players are better, faster and bigger but that it on both sides of the ball - unless you are playing BC or Syracuse. This is a young and inexperienced team and they will get better but thought they'd be further along. Wade is neither young nor inexperienced. He is not getting the job done. Is that on him or the coaches/play calling? I think it is a little of both.
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