|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 2, 2018 16:49:23 GMT -5
While I agree that Penn State is "a bridge too far" and we should not be playing them, just about all of the other schools you mentioned will not happen? Why? Because they would have no interest in playing us until and if we become a big player on the D-IAA scene. This is kind of like a chicken or egg thing. We'd like to get our "brand" name out there by playing some of those schools. They, on the other hand, say "who are they?" While they want the "guarantee" win for their money, they would like to play a team that their fans have at least heard of. They could "sell" a game against us if we had the reputation of being a top 10 team in D-IAA. Our academic reputation, while still very solid despite a couple of posters' opinion here, perhaps only the first two schools you mention would care. We're not an Ivy League school and "near-Ivy" doesn't count as we are playing football, not the old "College Bowl" game show.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 2, 2018 17:44:36 GMT -5
Cancel the games with CCSU and schedule some better opponents. How about Villanova, Delaware, William & Mary and maybe Wake Forest to name a few possible options. I don't think that Northwestern would be interested in playing HC. It may be possible to get Villanova, Delaware & William & Mary to come to Fitton Field while Wake Forest would be a road game. Takes two schools to both agree to play. Not as simple as just "scheduling some better opponents" on HC's part.
|
|
|
Post by rickii on Nov 2, 2018 18:01:43 GMT -5
While I agree that Penn State is "a bridge too far" and we should not be playing them, just about all of the other schools you mentioned will not happen? Why? Because they would have no interest in playing us until and if we become a big player on the D-IAA scene. This is kind of like a chicken or egg thing. We'd like to get our "brand" name out there by playing some of those schools. They, on the other hand, say "who are they?" While they want the "guarantee" win for their money, they would like to play a team that their fans have at least heard of. They could "sell" a game against us if we had the reputation of being a top 10 team in D-IAA. Our academic reputation, while still very solid despite a couple of posters' opinion here, perhaps only the first two schools you mention would care. We're not an Ivy League school and "near-Ivy" doesn't count as we are playing football, not the old "College Bowl" game show. That's not the reason.
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 2, 2018 18:11:49 GMT -5
Cancel the games with CCSU and schedule some better opponents. How about Villanova, Delaware, William & Mary and maybe Wake Forest to name a few possible options. I don't think that Northwestern would be interested in playing HC. It may be possible to get Villanova, Delaware & William & Mary to come to Fitton Field while Wake Forest would be a road game. Takes two schools to both agree to play. Not as simple as just "scheduling some better opponents" on HC's part. Reneging on a contract not too cool either; we certainly wouldn't want to be the ones getting the bum's rush from somebody else.
|
|
|
Post by realism on Nov 2, 2018 19:00:00 GMT -5
Because they would have no interest in playing us until and if we become a big player on the D-IAA scene. This is kind of like a chicken or egg thing. We'd like to get our "brand" name out there by playing some of those schools. They, on the other hand, say "who are they?" Excellent dose of reality Sader1970. I think by the end of the 2019 season, if HC is sporting a cumulative record of " 2-9/4-7-ish" seasons running from 2012-13 through 2019 ( 8 years ) without significant signs of the "turnaround," FBS schools will tell Pine/Chesney that they would have a very hard time marketing a game with H.C. to their fans. ....H.C., really ? Post 2019, the "schtick" that Chesney may be able to continue to sell to both the unwashed recruits and the Crossports diehards may not fly elsewhere. UConn and UMass may be the regional limits for spreading the HC brand. The exuberance of posters on this thread may lack depth perception if its based on Pine's initial success in selling the HC FB "vision" to the FBS schools "currently scheduled." As Holy Cross' new FB regime and its record evolve, there will be a narrower window for selling the "vision" vs. "the facts" for H.C. to secure FBS games "far and wide."
|
|
|
Post by Ignutz on Nov 2, 2018 20:47:53 GMT -5
fbschedules.com/ncaa/holy-cross/I mean we have Central Connecticut three years in a row. I want wins, but would rather play bigger better schools than beat Central Connecticut. Who wants to go to those three games? Thats why they need to re develop Fitton Field and give teams a reason to come with nice locker rooms and facilities. Video Board Not to mention that if/when we post a “W” vs. CCSU, the virtually universal reaction will be “Well I would hope so!”
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 2, 2018 21:05:49 GMT -5
Well, if you know the reason, please don't keep it a secret from the rest of us.
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Nov 3, 2018 1:54:40 GMT -5
interesting concept to mix it up with the big programs, "regardless of the outcome" so you agree that the chances of HC winning or even being competitive v a large FBS school are slim and none. we just come for the ambience, show that we do not really belong and go home with a smile and some money. now that is truly sad. btw, we will be great if we are not AFRAID to play competitive hard nose football. imho, that will attract recruits or, at least, the ones that we want to attract. we can take pride in Crusader football if we just give our players and coaches the chance to play and win. I don't agree re slim or none. There is no reason why we cannot play some of these games and be competitive (at some point in the future). We were competitive against UConn - I know they stink. We caught BC on an up year. The score would not have been as lopsided if we played BC's team from a few years ago and if we had a solid QB. Colgate was tied with Cuse after the first quarter a few years ago (before new recruiting full roster population?) and ended up losing by 20-odd points. Once we populate the roster with better recruits top to bottom, we will be more competitive. The goals of the program should be: 1. to win the league, 2. advance in the playoffs and 3. seek a national championship. The way to accomplish those goals includes, necessarily, the scheduling of FBS games. Simply, we don't accomplish those goals without same. The scheduling of these games attracts recruits, and better recruiting = better team depth. The program does not get better by only playing regional I-AA teams. The program does not get national exposure playing those same games, or even playing the I-AA programs with the type of success we would like to emulate, e.g. some CAA teams. FACT - We get more exposure by playing FBS teams. The college football landscape is vastly different from when you stepped on campus in the 60's or when I did in the 90's. All focus has been shifted to the P5. In my day, most recruits' (at least the recruits from big football areas) first priority was to play for the highest division they could. I imagine that desire is magnified to the conference level with the increased focus on the P5. HC has a product to sell. We need to distinguish our product from those programs we are recruiting against. We can offer a top notch education, and the ability to play P5 schools. Educational aspect distinguishes us from many of the schools in the country playing division I football, except similarly situated PL teams and Ivies (eschewing comparison of the top academic schools in the P5 which are not our recruiting rivals). P5 scheduling distinguishes us vs. most Ivies. That is vitally important in this AI era. There is no reason that we should be afraid to play these games or shy away from these games. The coaches want these games. The players want these these games. Recruits wants these games. The athletic department wants these games. Regardless of the outcome, i.e. win, loss by 10, lose by 40, we need these games to take the program to the next level. Your opposition to these games is well noted. My disagreement with you is, likewise, well noted. While we can agree that we will never agree on this issue, your position re same is simply wrong. "The goals of the program should be: 1. to win the league, 2. advance in the playoffs and 3. seek a national championship. The way to accomplish those goals includes, necessarily, the scheduling of FBS games. Simply, we don't accomplish those goals without same." (emphasis added) it's funny that the 2018 FCS national championship game was between North Dakota State and James Madison. Neither program played a game v an FBS school. Yet somehow they both managed to make it to the national championship game. i thought that you said scheduling FBS games was necessary to seeking a national championship??? (maybe there is another way?)
|
|
|
Post by joe on Nov 3, 2018 7:22:46 GMT -5
Not sure why we keep discussing this as if it were an option to not play BCS games. The games are already scheduled. The players and coaches like them and want them. That’s really all that matters. That being said, the team really only focus on these games in recruiting and then for one week per year. When the game is over, win or lose, they move on and start thinking about the next game. Some posters here have too much time on their hands if they’re actually perseverating on this topic. I can think of abour a dozen more pressing issues for HC football right now. FBS vs FCS games are pretty standard these days and can only help the FCS programs in a variety of ways, regardless of the score. If this weren’t true they would not happen year after year.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Nov 3, 2018 8:56:04 GMT -5
"The goals of the program should be: 1. to win the league, 2. advance in the playoffs and 3. seek a national championship. The way to accomplish those goals includes, necessarily, the scheduling of FBS games. Simply, we don't accomplish those goals without same." (emphasis added) it's funny that the 2018 FCS national championship game was between North Dakota State and James Madison. Neither program played a game v an FBS school. Yet somehow they both managed to make it to the national championship game. i thought that you said scheduling FBS games was necessary to seeking a national championship??? (maybe there is another way?) Actually, James Madison played and defeated (!) FBS East Carolina University to start last year's season. (This year they opened up with a loss to FBS NC State)
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 3, 2018 8:58:49 GMT -5
Aside from the love of Holy Cross athletics, this kind of post draws me to Crossports. I like to think my vocabulary is fairly extensive but I inevitably learn a new word or two every few months here. Thanks, Joe! BTW, while you "nailed it" in your last post, I understand why this continues. It takes a mighty effort for me not to drag out the Crusader issue every day even though I know that's now "settled law." moose, being one of my football classmates feels strongly about that sport, as he should. While I can't speak for my football/classmates (I did not play football, my friends thought I would be a penalty flag magnet ), my observations whenever we get together, the bond that the footballers have is closer for each other than for the Class or College. They are bound even closer than most who played football since their careers ended prematurely due to losing their last season with the hepatitis epidemic. Some had very legitimate opportunities to play in the NFL squashed. So, I suggest giving moose and others a little leeway.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Nov 3, 2018 9:24:52 GMT -5
This board has no direct connection to HC and I don't believe it is an "arm" of any HC department. However, if anyone thinks that the folks at HC are unaware of what is said here, they are truly naive. I have heard from too many HC folks to think otherwise. The "official" line is that everyone at HC is unaware of this site ("CROSSPORTS? What is that?") It can matter what is said here...even to possible recruits.
|
|
|
Post by joutsHC77 on Nov 3, 2018 10:19:22 GMT -5
This site is valuable. Perhaps, it may provide a sounding board for the administration who are ensconced in their “academic igloos”. Most posters support HC financially too.
|
|
|
Post by nhteamer on Nov 3, 2018 10:46:49 GMT -5
CCSU Wagner Sacred Heart etc.
NEVER PLAY THEM IN ANYTHING
nothing to gain; much to lose
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 3, 2018 10:56:55 GMT -5
To emphasize the point that Rob made, mm67, I agree with the above posts that:
1. the "official" line is HC staff doesn't know Crossports exists and would not be influenced by anything we write 2. that's a wink and a nod lie
I know this personally because when I was on close speaking terms with Dick Regan, he always acknowledged that Crossports existed but claimed "I never read it." However, he either read it or had someone feed him what was written because one day he came up to me after a post that he took offense to and demanded to know in a very upset tone "are you HC70!?" I couldn't help but laugh out loud and said that I was not, that it was one of my classmates but I said "I'm not telling you which one it is." He then said "I didn't think it was you but just wanted to make sure." He later found out who it was through his own devices.
Second, when Nate Pine became AD, I met him early on and told him two things: 1. You need to make the acquaintance of Non Alum Dave, the "heart" of Holy Cross fandom 2. You will hear about Crossports. Your predecessor claimed he didn't read it and I suggest that you might not want to read it either to avoid ulcers. But it exists and is the unofficial Holy Cross athletics message board.
Whether he reads it personally or not, he would be derelict in his duty if he didn't have one of his many subordinates keep tabs on what is written here. [and I am sure he will know about this post within the hour]. Crossports serves as a "barometer" or canary in the mine.
Not only is the HC athletic department "aware" of what is written here, there has been ample evidence that it is a source of information for various media as what is written here subsequently finds it way into Worcester and Boston papers.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 3, 2018 11:02:48 GMT -5
Trust me- virtually everyone in the HC athletic dept is well aware of this message board and most read it regularly to gauge the pulse of the fans that care about the fortunes of the programs.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Nov 3, 2018 11:04:16 GMT -5
Right now, Holy Cross (2-5) is ranked #71 (Massey). CCSU (5-4) is ranked #85 Wagner (2-6) is ranked #111 Sacred Heart (5-3) is ranked #69 They (with 12 wins) sound about right (for now).
Of course, other opponents are not that much better in the PL Georgetown (4-5) at #92 Bucknell (1-7) at #103 Lehigh (1-7) at #114 and HC split the two games with them. When HC starts winning (and perhaps takes the PL title) things could be very different. Let's not put the. cart before the horse.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Nov 3, 2018 11:06:20 GMT -5
I do hope CROSSPORTS posters do a bit better than canaries did in the coal mines.
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Nov 3, 2018 11:34:00 GMT -5
"The goals of the program should be: 1. to win the league, 2. advance in the playoffs and 3. seek a national championship. The way to accomplish those goals includes, necessarily, the scheduling of FBS games. Simply, we don't accomplish those goals without same." (emphasis added) it's funny that the 2018 FCS national championship game was between North Dakota State and James Madison. Neither program played a game v an FBS school. Yet somehow they both managed to make it to the national championship game. i thought that you said scheduling FBS games was necessary to seeking a national championship??? (maybe there is another way?) Actually, James Madison played and defeated (!) FBS East Carolina University to start last year's season. (This year they opened up with a loss to FBS NC State) good point. thank you for the correction. i should have recognized NC State as an FBS program. of the two, NC State is the football program consistently in the hunt for a post season bowl bid. North Dakota State got to the championship game without playing an FBS opponent. so it can be done.
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Nov 3, 2018 12:06:10 GMT -5
A lot of FBS teams won't play NDSU....they've beaten many this decade and play some down the road on their future schedules
|
|
|
Post by HC16 on Nov 3, 2018 12:06:38 GMT -5
Actually, James Madison played and defeated (!) FBS East Carolina University to start last year's season. (This year they opened up with a loss to FBS NC State) good point. thank you for the correction. i should have recognized NC State as an FBS program. of the two, NC State is the football program consistently in the hunt for a post season bowl bid. North Dakota State got to the championship game without playing an FBS opponent. so it can be done. Since 2010, ND State has played the following games against FBS Teams: 2010 Kansas: 6-3 win 2011 Minnesota: 37-24 win 2012 Colorado St: 22-7 win 2013 Kansas St 24-21 win 2014 Iowa St 34-14 win 2016 #11 Iowa 23-21 win Competitiveness isn't why they don't play FBS games.
|
|
|
Post by Dean Wormer on Nov 3, 2018 14:02:12 GMT -5
Quite frankly I doubt if anyone in the Athletics Department would pay any serious attention to the postings on this board. The board is merely a forum for people to express their opinions. Nobody in their right mind would allow the HC crazed "kooks" on this board to decide anything for the school. It really does not matter what we write! Let's not kid ourselves, this board is merely an arm of HC sports marketing and it exists to gin up interest in HC sports and not to make HC sports policy. LoveHC Read the top of the board I have specifically emailed the HC Compliance office to look at a thread or two to ensure that posters have not crossed the lines with respect to NCAA violations, so there is some limited direct interation with the athletic department. Outside of that, I can assure you that Holy Cross athetics (and marketing) have nothing to do with Crossports and the message board. That said, if Nate Pine, Nick Smith or Dan Mercurio are reading ... drop me a PM. I'm willing to talk!
|
|
|
Post by rickii on Nov 4, 2018 7:30:41 GMT -5
Well, if you know the reason, please don't keep it a secret from the rest of us. Easy on the juvenile.... First, read my post from yesterday at 4:30pm. But more enlightening, review the past and future schedules for each of those schools. Some don’t even play I-AA schools and those that do have a fixed rotation of schools close by where there is a some overall connection with business, alums, fans and expectations of ticket sales.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 4, 2018 7:41:57 GMT -5
Here's what you posted and, you are right, I did not connect the dots to your two posts. Reading your latter post out of context, it sounded like you had some inside information the rest of us did not have.
As to your former post, we are in at least partial agreement. My point was if we were better with more wins and a higher D-IAA ranking, we might meet your first point. We are in fuller agreement that playing the other schools listed is not going to happen.
|
|
|
Post by realism on Nov 4, 2018 10:24:50 GMT -5
Here's what you posted and, you are right, I did not connect the dots to your two posts. Reading your latter post out of context, it sounded like you had some inside information the rest of us did not have. As to your former post, we are in at least partial agreement. My point was if we were better with more wins and a higher D-IAA ranking, we might meet your first point. We are in fuller agreement that playing the other schools listed is not going to happen. I live in Evanston, Il--home of Northwestern. Northwestern would have 0 interest in playing Holy Cross. ( Where do posters get their ideas about the criteria of the host school -what's in it for them? ) For perspective, check out the patterns of the O.O.C. schedule, since 1888, for yourself: nusports.com/schedule.aspx?path=football&
|
|