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Post by timholycross on Nov 4, 2018 10:40:59 GMT -5
I'd have to agree with realism and I usually don't.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 4, 2018 10:45:55 GMT -5
Try not to take offense with your Illinois roots but I have no interest in playing Northwestern anymore than they would have no interest in playing us. I am perfectly happy with playing UMass, UConn, Army and BC. The first 3 because we have a chance to beat them, especially if the recruiting follows the same trend line as the last couple years and the last because of the tradition and proximity and if the recruiting continues upwards and BC comes back to their more normal level ("gravitating to the mean," KY?), we would be much more competitive and maybe pull out a win.
I might add that since we have already scheduled to play Navy, them too, because 1. they are in the PL for everything else and 2. our NROTC gives us close connections with the Navy and 3. we are used to travel down to Annapolis which also happens to be very beautiful though chances of beating them are about as good as beating BC.
I am on the fence with Syracuse as they would stomp us even when there was supposed parity in the 60's. But I think the payday would be very good and for the most part their best football days seems to be in their rearview mirror.
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Post by realism on Nov 4, 2018 11:05:35 GMT -5
I am perfectly happy with playing UMass, UConn, Army and BC. The first 3 because we have a chance to beat them, especially if the recruiting follows the same trend line as the last couple years and the last because of the tradition and proximity and if the recruiting continues upwards and BC comes back to their more normal level ("gravitating to the mean," KY?), we would be much more competitive and maybe pull out a win. It's admirable Sader1970 that you've focussed on criteria rather than a pure wish list. If you focus on years beyond the next couple, one has to wonder about: (1.) what the incentive is for schools to schedule HC onto their schedules in the first instance ? (2.) How often the schools that you mention would recycle HC back into their schedules after the 1st gig ? (3. ) Is the objective to schedule an FBS game every year ? Fordham and Colgate have gradually created FBS patterns over the past few years to observe. Will the HC pattern be in securing a schedule based on some consistent criteria relevant to institutional identity or in just securing a payday and filling the schedule with an FBS game every year ?
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 4, 2018 11:20:07 GMT -5
realism, this thread may turn into a simple dialogue between us but to your good points:
Beyond the first round of D-IA opponents, we've seen repeat performances for some already (UConn and BC) on futudre schedules.
Here's their incentive: 1. A "probable win" (from their perspective) that counts toward bowl eligibility. 2. A local crowd drawer - Holy Cross fans "travel well" (see the big BC game crowd and the relatively large, for them, crowd at UConn and you know there would be similar crowds at UMass). Much bigger crowds than some other schools would draw and crowd size has to matter. 3. As you indicated or implied about Northwestern, the pay-out they would make would be less than other schools because our travel expenses would be less, being local. 4. Tradition for all of these schools as we've played them over many years 5. For Army and Navy, a fellow Patriot League school. There might be some back office pressure (or sympathy?) for them to schedule us.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 4, 2018 12:05:33 GMT -5
I might add that since we have already scheduled to play Navy, them too, because 1. they are in the PL for everything else and 2. our NROTC gives us close connections with the Navy and 3. we are used to travel down to Annapolis which also happens to be very beautiful though chances of beating them are about as good as beating BC. I am on the fence with Syracuse as they would stomp us even when there was supposed parity in the 60's. But I think the payday would be very good and for the most part their best football days seems to be in their rearview mirror. It appears that our dates with BC and Syracuse both happened to fall at a time when those programs are at a high point, at least compared to this past decade. BC is back in the Top 25 now and Dino Babers is doing an excellent job making SU nationally relevant for the first time since Donovan McNabb got drafted. They may well be a Top 25 opponent for us next year. Navy actually appears to be down and will miss a bowl game for the first (maybe second?) time since 2003. The Mids just got shutout by Cincinnati 42-0 yesterday. They haven't been beaten that badly since before Paul Johnson. That being said the Naval Academy always seems to reload at QB and defending the spread option will be a challenge no matter what. One rule change that went into effect this year banned cut blocking outside of 5 yards. I wonder if this disproportionately hampers Navy's attack relative to Army as the Cadets run the wishbone which is more of a North-South system. Navy and AFA play-calling takes them more East-West.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 4, 2018 12:12:40 GMT -5
realism, this thread may turn into a simple dialogue between us but to your good points: Beyond the first round of D-IA opponents, we've seen repeat performances for some already (UConn and BC) on futudre schedules. Here's their incentive: 1. A "probable win" (from their perspective) that counts toward bowl eligibility. 2. A local crowd drawer - Holy Cross fans "travel well" (see the big BC game crowd and the relatively large, for them, crowd at UConn and you know there would be similar crowds at UMass). Much bigger crowds than some other schools would draw and crowd size has to matter. 3. As you indicated or implied about Northwestern, the pay-out they would make would be less than other schools because our travel expenses would be less, being local. 4. Tradition for all of these schools as we've played them over many years 5. For Army and Navy, a fellow Patriot League school. There might be some back office pressure (or sympathy?) for them to schedule us. Literally the opposite of Georgetown. Army has been playing TWO PL schools a lot of years now. Their final two home games this year are against Lafayette and Colgate. With game against HC next year, Navy will have made their last four FCS opponents all PL members. haven't played either VMI or Delaware in a while, both of whom they typically played every 2-3 years.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 4, 2018 12:16:37 GMT -5
good point. thank you for the correction. i should have recognized NC State as an FBS program. of the two, NC State is the football program consistently in the hunt for a post season bowl bid. North Dakota State got to the championship game without playing an FBS opponent. so it can be done. Since 2010, ND State has played the following games against FBS Teams: 2010 Kansas: 6-3 win 2011 Minnesota: 37-24 win 2012 Colorado St: 22-7 win 2013 Kansas St 24-21 win 2014 Iowa St 34-14 win 2016 #11 Iowa 23-21 win Competitiveness isn't why they don't play FBS games. And maybe just MAYBE, some of those FBS wins helped a little with recruiting. They have not had an FBS opponent on schedule for a couple years now due to no one wanting to face them. IIRC, they did get a date with Oregon for 2020.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 4, 2018 12:17:44 GMT -5
Northwestern played, and lost to, UNH in 2006.....apropos of probably nothing, but I wouldn't rule out a game against the Wildcats down the line altogether.
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Post by nhteamer on Nov 4, 2018 12:19:08 GMT -5
We are 40, 50, 60, 70 year old posters.
More meaningful to me than poster opinions; the PLAYERS want to play these games
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Post by realism on Nov 4, 2018 13:15:54 GMT -5
Northwestern played, and lost to, UNH in 2006.....apropos of probably nothing, but I wouldn't rule out a game against the Wildcats down the line altogether. You're more than a generation removed from the reality of NU since they decided to recruit/play/schedule to be big time ( i.e. emulating Stanford, Duke, Vanderbilt ) without sacrificing their institutional integrity. The mantra of the modern iteration ( over the past decade under Pres. Morty Shapiro's reign ) of Northwestern's athletic marketing is that they're "Chicago's Big 10 team.." If you don't understand what that means in scheduling....they're going full force to lure the fannies of all Chicagoland Big 10/Stanford/Duke/Vanderbilt, and other Midwest college alumni/sports fans into NU properties' seats. NU Athletics, consisrent with NU's outstanding marketing/communications curricular/professional offerings, is a marketing machine. If Holy Cross were to become the perennial NDSU, NU would schedule Illinois State way before considering Holy Cross. And HC is not an academic peer, if you're thinking of that angle. I could see NU taking a flyer on Harvard with its huge Chicagoland undergraduate/professional school alumni base. But, that would be in Harvard's court. Your understanding of Northwestern is probably from familiarity with the era that is radically different than the current effort supporting the NU brand . I think HC will ultimately be relegated to New England FBS games for all the practical criteria spelled out by Sader1970. Find another fantasy. I'm sure you will.
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Post by nhteamer on Nov 4, 2018 13:19:38 GMT -5
Somewhat unnecessary realism "Find another fantasy. I'm sure you will."
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Post by hc87 on Nov 4, 2018 13:41:36 GMT -5
lol...I'm a big boy, can take the slings and arrows from the likes of realism.
Point being, there's really no opponent for HC "off the table" moving forward outside of the likes of ND, Bama, USC etc. Northwestern played Maine as recently as 2013, they are scheduled to play other FCS opponents on their future schedules etc.
Will a game evah be scheduled against the Wildcats? More than likely not due to travel logistics etc....but it is by no means completely outside the realm of possibility as realism would have you believe.
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Post by putter1 on Nov 4, 2018 14:12:32 GMT -5
Not sure why we keep discussing this as if it were an option to not play BCS games. The games are already scheduled. The players and coaches like them and want them. That’s really all that matters. That being said, the team really only focus on these games in recruiting and then for one week per year. When the game is over, win or lose, they move on and start thinking about the next game. Some posters here have too much time on their hands if they’re actually perseverating on this topic. I can think of abour a dozen more pressing issues for HC football right now. FBS vs FCS games are pretty standard these days and can only help the FCS programs in a variety of ways, regardless of the score. If this weren’t true they would not happen year after year. amen
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 4, 2018 14:38:12 GMT -5
Somewhat unnecessary realism "Find another fantasy. I'm sure you will." Do yourself a solid 'teamer and ignore this incoherent troll like everyone else does.
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Post by moose1970 on Nov 4, 2018 15:06:58 GMT -5
Since 2010, ND State has played the following games against FBS Teams: 2010 Kansas: 6-3 win 2011 Minnesota: 37-24 win 2012 Colorado St: 22-7 win 2013 Kansas St 24-21 win 2014 Iowa St 34-14 win 2016 #11 Iowa 23-21 win Competitiveness isn't why they don't play FBS games. And maybe just MAYBE, some of those FBS wins helped a little with recruiting. They have not had an FBS opponent on schedule for a couple years now due to no one wanting to face them. IIRC, they did get a date with Oregon for 2020. thank you for the info. i did not dig deep enough and looked only at last season schedule for ND State and did not see an FBS opponent. Their past record v FBS is impressive. But except for #11 Iowa in 2014 i do not know if the other FBS opponents had much success, e.g. in 2014 Iowa State record was 2-10, 2013 Kansas State record was 8-5, 2012 Colorado State record was 4-8. etc.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 4, 2018 17:30:59 GMT -5
And maybe just MAYBE, some of those FBS wins helped a little with recruiting. They have not had an FBS opponent on schedule for a couple years now due to no one wanting to face them. IIRC, they did get a date with Oregon for 2020. thank you for the info. i did not dig deep enough and looked only at last season schedule for ND State and did not see an FBS opponent. Their past record v FBS is impressive. But except for #11 Iowa in 2014 i do not know if the other FBS opponents had much success, e.g. in 2014 Iowa State record was 2-10, 2013 Kansas State record was 8-5, 2012 Colorado State record was 4-8. etc. Iowa and Kansas State were definitely the best wins of the bunch. While some of the other opponents were not that impressive, they still are all P5 except CSU, which is still a very respectable program. And they won those games by multiple touchdowns in some cases. NDSU is an absolute monster program. I have no doubt they could not just succeed in, but be near-dominant in a G5 conference. It doesn't look like they have any interest or have been seriously courted into making the jump, however. Good for FCS and our brand.
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