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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 17:16:37 GMT -5
Decided to start a new thread with bringbackcaro 's findings. Maybe this is more of the issue that needs to be focused upon in the short term. Pine has done some amazing things from a marketing perspective, however, he is not a leader and has absolutely horrendous results in hiring coaches. If someone has time, can we do a side by side comparison to Pine and Regan? Pine’s coaches in 2017-18: Men's Basketball: 12-19 (.387) -- 3 players suspended indefinitely, second year in a row with major rule/law violations (Not verified yet) Men's Hockey: 13-16-7 (.458) -- Coach has an absolutely horrific postseason record during his tenure at HC Men's Lacrosse: 4-8 (.333) -- 1-7 (.125) under the coach who NP hired, who is now suspended indefinitely Field Hockey: 7-11 (.389) Women's Lacrosse: 5-10 (.333) Women's Soccer: 4-9-4 (.353) Softball: 9-25 (.265) Volleyball: 5-24 (.172) And to round that out with the hot start for 2018-19: Field Hockey: 1-9 (.100) Women's Soccer: 3-8 (.272) Volleyball: 3-14 (.176) |
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Post by hchoops on Oct 1, 2018 17:23:32 GMT -5
For the sake of accuracy there has been nothing proven (only rumor)about the basketball players’ conduct being against the law.
Thus “major law violations” is incorrect and libelous to the players involved
Please amend
”not verified yet” is totally insufficient. Among other things, it implies it will be verified. There is no indication of any verification occurring.at any time.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 1, 2018 17:28:21 GMT -5
So much for bringing HC back into the “national consciousness.”
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Post by crossbball13 on Oct 1, 2018 17:39:07 GMT -5
Absolute F. Our sports have simply not improved under him. Next!
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Post by thecrossisback on Oct 1, 2018 17:48:33 GMT -5
Get rid of him. Terrible. Needs to get some better teams to Fitton than the ivies. Also needs to change conferences, in hockey. Hockey East. Also in basketball and football.
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Post by crusader12 on Oct 1, 2018 18:08:05 GMT -5
Grade: F
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 18:10:06 GMT -5
I’ve just copied and pasted what has been shared. Please feel free to share information and will be happy to revise if needed.
I think Nate Pine has done some great things at Holy Cross, however, hiring successful coaches that create winning programs has to be #1 for an AD.
I am thankful for the new schedules, website, marketing materials, gear, etc that Nate has made happen with his team. Can an assistant AD be hired that does a better job with picking coaches? Obviously, something isn’t working across the board.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 1, 2018 18:11:21 GMT -5
Assuming our admin wants to actually win (as opposed to participate in DI sports) this is just plain awful.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 1, 2018 18:15:47 GMT -5
The records are staggering and speak for themselves.
If men’s basketball doesn’t have a good season, I see no reason why we shouldn’t be looking to replace Pine.
Better highlight videos and Twitter presence only goes so far.
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Post by joe on Oct 1, 2018 18:17:02 GMT -5
Sometimes one begins to wonder if anyone can win at HC anymore.
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Post by moose1970 on Oct 1, 2018 18:22:40 GMT -5
interesting thread.
i have had questions about nate pine as the AD.
late season 2016 showcase game v fordham at yankee stadium.
we were clearly outplayed by the rams and lost big, 54-14.
soon after that game pine issued an "apology letter" signed by himself and coach gilmore promising better times ahead.
first, red flag- gilmore was finished as football coach at HC. 2017 Yale game was convenient excuse.
worst than that, the "apology letter" was a clear insult to that football team.
no reason to apologize simply for losing a football game(s).
only reason to apologize was if they had quit in any game that season WHICH THEY DID NOT.
i then sent an e-mail addressed to coach gilmore and pine expressing my disaproval of the "apology letter" .
coach gilmore at least acknowledged.
no response from pine.
nate pine seems to think that if HC teams win on the field he is doing a good job as AD.
it does not/should not work that way.
HC is a very special place where winning is neither everything nor the only thing.
at HC we always play to win the game, an entirely different concept that appears lost on mr pine.
GO 'SADERS!
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 1, 2018 18:23:23 GMT -5
Where are we at now - 2 of the last 300-something possible conference championships between PL and AHA among all sports?
Since 2009 Football championship season, all we have to show for ourselves is the baseball title in 2017 and men's basketball cinderalla run as the 9 seed in 2016. It also dawned on me -- have we not won a women's Patriot League crown in any sport since Women's Lax in 2007? Someone PLEASE tell me I'm forgetting one. And not counting sub-Division I open tournaments in Women's Ice Hockey.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 1, 2018 18:24:45 GMT -5
moose - good for you for your response to the Pine/Gilmore letter. Glad to see a former Crusader has the backs of the student athletes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 18:46:12 GMT -5
nate pine seems to think that if HC teams win on the field he is doing a good job as AD. it does not/should not work that way. HC is a very special place where winning is neither everything nor the only thing. at HC we always play to win the game, an entirely different concept that appears lost on mr pine. GO 'SADERS! I don't think Nate Pine is placing too much of emphasis on winning based upon his record. Again, we need to have a stronger direction as a school. Making excuses like we lose because we have "student athletes" is silly. The age old question is where do we want to go? Do you want to be a pretend Ivy League school or do we want to win at the FCS/FBS level? We can't be half in one direction and half in the other. The Duffner/Rick Carter era was successful because they were a scholarship school playing non-scholarship schools. They brought on FBS transfers like Gil Fenerty and murdered people. ODU beat Virginia Tech and has only been in existence since 2010. Obviously, they are the other extreme of lowering academic standards at all costs to win. I don't think that is the direction we want to go in, however, we need to make some concessions. If not, then we don't need to worry about records and this thread is pointless. |
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Post by moose1970 on Oct 1, 2018 18:55:52 GMT -5
nate pine seems to think that if HC teams win on the field he is doing a good job as AD. it does not/should not work that way. HC is a very special place where winning is neither everything nor the only thing. at HC we always play to win the game, an entirely different concept that appears lost on mr pine. GO 'SADERS! I don't think Nate Pine is placing too much of emphasis on winning based upon his record. Again, we need to have a stronger direction as a school. Making excuses like we lose because we have "student athletes" is silly. The age old question is where do we want to go? Do you want to be a pretend Ivy League school or do we want to win at the FCS/FBS level? We can't be half in one direction and half in the other. The Duffner/Rick Carter era was successful because they were a scholarship school playing non-scholarship schools. They brought on FBS transfers like Gil Fenerty and murdered people. ODU beat Virginia Tech and has only been in existence since 2010. Obviously, they are the other extreme of lowering academic standards at all costs to win. I don't think that is the direction we want to go in, however, we need to make some concessions. If not, then we don't need to worry about records and this thread is pointless. well said and thank you for your input. certainly agree with We can't be half in one direction and half in the other.otherwise, looks like we will just have to "agree to disagree" |
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Post by lou on Oct 1, 2018 19:02:29 GMT -5
I think I've said this before ... winning the basketball championship a few years ago was very exciting. I think Bill Carmody is a terrific coach, and I love watching his games. Great hire by Pine IMO. And wait, I thought everyone loved the Chesney hire? Met Coach Berard at a golf outing this Summer, he's very impressive, a terrific representative of HC, and is going to be a winner. Golf coach also very impressive, don't think I know any others
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 1, 2018 19:08:52 GMT -5
Grade: F
The smoke and mirrors may fool some, but he just simply isn’t fit to be the AD at Holy Cross.
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Post by crusader12 on Oct 1, 2018 19:11:45 GMT -5
I can’t name a single head coach at Holy Cross since the 90’s that has gone on to a better D1 head coaching job. Not one in almost 30 years. We have really stunk in all sports since ADNPs arrival but there’s an underlying systemic problem at the top. ADNP thought he could use HC as a stepping stone, never going to happen and hasn’t happened in 30 years.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 1, 2018 19:40:13 GMT -5
Our “team of the year” last year had a losing record. Says it all.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 1, 2018 19:46:19 GMT -5
The two finalists for DR's position were NP and the AD at CCSU.
NP was hired to shake the money tree, something DR was apparently unable to do. If the hearsay conversations are true, there would be no Luth if DR was still AD. That probably goes for an AD from CCSU.
If one goes back to the AD job announcement, the college assigned the highest priority to academic progress and academic achievement. And the athletes have delivered. e,g, "Holy Cross tied for second in the nation out of 356 Division I schools for the most teams to post a perfect score of 1,000. IMO, that counts big in the college's evaluation of the athletic program."
The college also places a high priority of fielding a large number of teams. IIRC, over 50 percent of enrolled students played a varsity sport in high school.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 1, 2018 20:17:08 GMT -5
I think I've said this before ... winning the basketball championship a few years ago was very exciting. I think Bill Carmody is a terrific coach, and I love watching his games. Great hire by Pine IMO. And wait, I thought everyone loved the Chesney hire? Met Coach Berard at a golf outing this Summer, he's very impressive, a terrific representative of HC, and is going to be a winner. Golf coach also very impressive, don't think I know any others Never mind the basketball team that has a .400+ winning percentage under Carmody, Hockey is an even worse one to bring up for Pine. 1) Pine is a primary reason Pearl left 2) The replacement Pine hired has a postseason winning percentage of .111, including being swept 2-0 in the playoffs each of the last three years 3) Pine was out-maneuvered by the Worcester Railers for the DCU and the Hockey East 3 strikes and you’re out. |
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Post by hc87 on Oct 1, 2018 21:36:47 GMT -5
nate pine seems to think that if HC teams win on the field he is doing a good job as AD. it does not/should not work that way. HC is a very special place where winning is neither everything nor the only thing. at HC we always play to win the game, an entirely different concept that appears lost on mr pine. GO 'SADERS! I don't think Nate Pine is placing too much of emphasis on winning based upon his record. Again, we need to have a stronger direction as a school. Making excuses like we lose because we have "student athletes" is silly. The age old question is where do we want to go? Do you want to be a pretend Ivy League school or do we want to win at the FCS/FBS level? We can't be half in one direction and half in the other. he Duffner/Rick Carter era was successful because they were a scholarship school playing non-scholarship schools T. They brought on FBS transfers like Gil Fenerty and murdered people. ODU beat Virginia Tech and has only been in existence since 2010. Obviously, they are the other extreme of lowering academic standards at all costs to win. I don't think that is the direction we want to go in, however, we need to make some concessions. If not, then we don't need to worry about records and this thread is pointless. That's a common misnomer here imo...the Carter/Duffner teams were beating both scholly and non-scholly teams during their reign. Yes, we dominated the PL teams from 1986-1991 but we were also regularly beating a lot of very good scholarship programs (UMass, UConn, William&Mary, Army, good URI teams, Delaware etc) then too. |
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Post by hcpride on Oct 2, 2018 4:37:02 GMT -5
I don't think Nate Pine is placing too much of emphasis on winning based upon his record. Again, we need to have a stronger direction as a school. Making excuses like we lose because we have "student athletes" is silly. The age old question is where do we want to go? Do you want to be a pretend Ivy League school or do we want to win at the FCS/FBS level? We can't be half in one direction and half in the other. he Duffner/Rick Carter era was successful because they were a scholarship school playing non-scholarship schools T. They brought on FBS transfers like Gil Fenerty and murdered people. ODU beat Virginia Tech and has only been in existence since 2010. Obviously, they are the other extreme of lowering academic standards at all costs to win. I don't think that is the direction we want to go in, however, we need to make some concessions. If not, then we don't need to worry about records and this thread is pointless. That's a common misnomer here imo...the Carter/Duffner teams were beating both scholly and non-scholly teams during their reign. Yes, we dominated the PL teams from 1986-1991 but we were also regularly beating a lot of very good scholarship programs (UMass, UConn, William&Mary, Army, good URI teams, Delaware etc) then too. I've noticed a very similar mistake by some posters before also. Our winning seasons (in this context) started when Carter arrived, 1981. Five years before the PL. And '82-'84 (25 wins, 8 losses, 1 tie) were among the strongest years in Holy Cross football history. Those '82-'84 teams were laden with all-time Holy Cross greats and NFLers such as Gill Fenerty and Bruce Kozerski. Neither one played in a PL game. Beating schollie schools and the Ivies. Not PL non-schollies. (In case one is wondering about those 8 losses, 3 were to Flutie's BC teams, one was a 7-point playoff loss and the remaining 4 were by 7 points or less). It is also true that the PL portion of our schedules (starting in 1986) were easy pickings for several years. And '87 is right in pointing out that those were not the only teams we were beating from 1986-1991. |
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Post by joe on Oct 2, 2018 5:32:27 GMT -5
Thought I would move this here:
Can’t be a small, impossible-to-get-into, “religious” school and play all these D1 sports. It’s idiotic. Choose a few men’s and women’s sports, comply with title 9, and make the rest club. Focus all energy on conference re-alignments and spend a lot more money on better coaches. Have the decreased number of athletes on campus counter whatever minor concessions you need in admitting the right athletes. We need to go back to the blue collar towns and mine for old school tough kids like we did in the past.
Otherwise drop D1 and join the league with Williams and MIT and those schools and put HC athletics, along with our sword and shield, out to pasture. Otherwise stop jerking around with dogs and ponies (although the hype videos are pretty amazing) and shake this thing up. Anything is better than the status quo.
PS - How we are still not in HE for men’s hockey is just silly.
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Post by alum on Oct 2, 2018 5:55:57 GMT -5
We all want it all. We want HC to:
1. Have a large number of applicants for admission;
2. Give outstanding financial aid;
3. Admit students with outstanding academic credentials;
4. Successfully recruit outstanding athletes;
5. Have admissions get out of the way for our best recruits;
6. Keep the college reasonably affordable;
7. Have great facilities;
8. Win in the Patriot League while spending money on scholarships, coaches, and facilities on a sport which most of the league does not play (hockey.)
9. Compete with two schools in which every athlete (every student) is on a full scholarship.
10. For some (including me,) join Hockey East which would require an upgrade in facilities and scholarships and probably require further academic compromises.
We are trying to have it all and that just might be impossible.
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