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Post by timholycross on Oct 8, 2018 17:00:19 GMT -5
For those that make the scheduling argument, the PL is an absolute joke this year and every conference game outside of Colgate is "Georgetown" type of competition from year's past. It definitely seems that the PL has fallen substantially over the past 8 years and will need to create a new identity or become a second rate Ivy League experience with Div 2/Div 3 talent. The play for HC will be to get into the CAA if they want to really "compete" at the FCS level. In response to the 3-8 comment above, that 2004 team would have beat our 2018 team by at least two scores. Even in the "non-scholarship era", we still had a dual threat quarterback that went through a read progression, an All American/future HOF at Tailback, strong receivers, and a decent defense. In 2003, Colgate made it to the FCS National Championship game to give some perspective into how strong the PL was at that time. Remember how intense the Lehigh/Lafayette rivalry was back in the day? That game along with Colgate, usually determined the fate of the PLC and produced a lot of NFL talent as a byproduct. I know it's easy to exaggerate your own athletic experience, however, I can say with 100% certainty that the Patriot League is the weakest it has been since it's inception. Most of these players starting in 2018, would not have played from 2004-10. If I recall correctly, 2003 team was beating eventual IAA national championship finalists, Colgate entering the 4th quarter...just sayin'. ..that team was decent offensively; one of HC's worst on the other side of the ball (gave up over 30 points a game all but one game).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 18:18:36 GMT -5
..that team was decent offensively; one of HC's worst on the other side of the ball (gave up over 30 points a game all but one game). Well, that wouldn't be a problem with Murphy's offense. Put 8 in the box and key Wade's eyes. Better yet, we wouldn't even need to play with safeties.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 8, 2018 19:54:37 GMT -5
Let's compare HC's offense in 2016 with 2018 to date.
In 2016, PP played in four games; Guild in two
In 2016, 31 touchdowns were scored by the offense. HC was successful in 8/15 FG attempts In 2018 through six games, 10 TDs were scored by the offense, 2/3 in FG attempts
Passing yardage in 2016 by QB PP 1110 yar4ds Wade 1184 yards Bell 348 yards Clifford 108 yards
In 2016, Cozier and Alexander were the second and third leading rushers on the team. In 2016, DeNicola and Montgomery were the third and fifth leading receivers. A lot of the same faces.
In 2016, HC punted 56 times.. In 2018 to date, HC has had 49 punts
In 2016, HC scored 198 points over the first three quarters. In 2018 to date, HC has scored 31 points over the first three quarters.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2018 20:06:07 GMT -5
Let's compare HC's offense in 2016 with 2018 to date. In 2016, PP played in four games; Guild in two In 2016, 31 touchdowns were scored by the offense. HC was successful in 8/15 FG attempts In 2018 through six games, 10 TDs were scored by the offense, 2/3 in FG attempts Passing yardage in 2016 by QB PP 1110 yar4ds Wade 1184 yards Bell 348 yards Clifford 108 yards In 2016, Cozier and Alexander were the second and third leading rushers on the team. In 2016, DeNicola and Montgomery were the third and fifth leading receivers. A lot of the same faces. In 2016, HC punted 56 times.. In 2018 to date, HC has had 49 punts In 2016, HC scored 198 points over the first three quarters. In 2018 to date, HC has scored 31 points over the first three quarters. Stats never lie. Great job putting this together!
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 8, 2018 20:45:33 GMT -5
Nice job on the stats, but...only the first three quarters? Did HC leave the field in the 4th quarter in each of those seasons...or do those numbers not fit your point?
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Post by gks on Oct 8, 2018 20:49:31 GMT -5
Let's compare HC's offense in 2016 with 2018 to date. In 2016, PP played in four games; Guild in two In 2016, 31 touchdowns were scored by the offense. HC was successful in 8/15 FG attempts In 2018 through six games, 10 TDs were scored by the offense, 2/3 in FG attempts Passing yardage in 2016 by QB PP 1110 yar4ds Wade 1184 yards Bell 348 yards Clifford 108 yards In 2016, Cozier and Alexander were the second and third leading rushers on the team. In 2016, DeNicola and Montgomery were the third and fifth leading receivers. A lot of the same faces. In 2016, HC punted 56 times.. In 2018 to date, HC has had 49 punts In 2016, HC scored 198 points over the first three quarters. In 2018 to date, HC has scored 31 points over the first three quarters. Ummm....how about the offensive line? Think 2016 was a little better and more experienced. Stats are great....but what do your eyes tell you?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 8, 2018 20:56:10 GMT -5
Re: offensive line, has the loss of Rory Costello been a big factor in offensive struggles?
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 8, 2018 21:03:09 GMT -5
gks, I'll let Phreek do the stats but to my eyes, our offense is doing poorly. Probably better in the 4th quarter but overall very poorly and worse than poor through the first 3 quarters. To my recollection, we've scored exactly 7 points in the first quarter of our first 6 games this year and that was against Bucknell. That was the only game in which we did not dig a deep hole for ourselves and, even then, we lost that game. Was it the Dartmouth game in which we didn't even get a single first down until late in the 3rd quarter?
The offense, for whatever reason, has been AWOL the entire season. The worst I have ever seen from a Holy Cross team.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 9, 2018 2:43:21 GMT -5
Doesn't the opposition have to be factored into such an analysis?
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Post by gks on Oct 9, 2018 6:21:25 GMT -5
gks, I'll let Phreek do the stats but to my eyes, our offense is doing poorly. Probably better in the 4th quarter but overall very poorly and worse than poor through the first 3 quarters. To my recollection, we've scored exactly 7 points in the first quarter of our first 6 games this year and that was against Bucknell. That was the only game in which we did not dig a deep hole for ourselves and, even then, we lost that game. Was it the Dartmouth game in which we didn't even get a single first down until late in the 3rd quarter? The offense, for whatever reason, has been AWOL the entire season. The worst I have ever seen from a Holy Cross team. Agreed, offense has been poor at best. I see an extremely vanilla offense. Why? Probably because the talent to run to OC's complete offense is simply not there.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 9, 2018 6:43:41 GMT -5
Nice job on the stats, but...only the first three quarters? Did HC leave the field in the 4th quarter in each of those seasons...or do those numbers not fit your point? HC has hung around to play the 4th quarter, -- in both years. In 2016, point production over the second half was less than in the first half. In 2018, the fourth quarter is HC's best quarter. HC has 58 points, not all of them from the offense, outsoring the opponents' 28 points. In 2016, HC had 61 4th quarter points, opponents 79. I omitted the 4th quarter because opponents with a big lead going into the 4th quarter are not only subbing in their second and third stringers, but they tend to ease off on the defense: avoid big plays, give up the dinky stuff, run out the clock. Its not called garbage time for nothing. (NFL is somewhat of an exception, as the game roster is only a two-deep, players have performance incentives, and there are gazillion of dollars riding on the point spread.) ___________________________________ As far as the opposition in 2016, in the four games that PP started, HC won one, Morgan State. Lost to UNH, Albany, and Dartmouth. With the subs at QB, beat Harvard Lafayette, and Georgetown. The subs lost badly to Fordham at Yankee Stadium and Lehigh; also lost to Bucknell by one, and Colgate by 18. In 2016, Clifford was a freshman, Wade, Cozier, Alexander, DiNicola, and Montgomery were sophs, and Bell was a junior. Dorsey also played in 2016, but had only one or two catches. Some other comparative stats: Yards in penalties in 2016, 418; in 2018 331. Turnovers in 2016, 23: in 2018, 13. Third down conversions: in 2016 62; in 2018 23. Fourth down conversions: in 2016 15; in 2018 7. Red Zone scores in 2016, 29: in 2018, 5. ____________________________________________ I'll be traveling for several days and not taking a laptop, so further queries on statistics will have to wait.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 9, 2018 7:22:59 GMT -5
Really illustrates our lack of offensive production.
Agree on the 4th quarter omission - - so often the opposition (or theoretically HC) has called off the dogs, etc. as you point out. (Had to chuckle at your understated response to rgs318).
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 9, 2018 10:17:38 GMT -5
Not to get too far into the weeds, but how much play-action are we running? By slamming the RBs into the line repeatedly, and everything hovering within five yards of the line of scrimmage, I wonder if we can stretch the field with a few fake handoffs and bootlegs off of it.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 9, 2018 10:42:01 GMT -5
Seems like we never send a man in motion or do much else to make the defense adjust
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2018 11:05:36 GMT -5
gks, I'll let Phreek do the stats but to my eyes, our offense is doing poorly. Probably better in the 4th quarter but overall very poorly and worse than poor through the first 3 quarters. To my recollection, we've scored exactly 7 points in the first quarter of our first 6 games this year and that was against Bucknell. That was the only game in which we did not dig a deep hole for ourselves and, even then, we lost that game. Was it the Dartmouth game in which we didn't even get a single first down until late in the 3rd quarter? The offense, for whatever reason, has been AWOL the entire season. The worst I have ever seen from a Holy Cross team. Agreed, offense has been poor at best. I see an extremely vanilla offense. Why? Probably because the talent to run to OC's complete offense is simply not there. Again, if that's the case then why aren't we being innovative in getting the ball to Blaise Bell? The "talent" argument is silly when you have an OC that has NEVER CONSISTENTLY WON and has absolutely no idea what he's doing. If Murphy remains as the OC and no changes are made, we will lose every game moving forward. Is Chesney a good leader or is he simply someone Pine hired because he can be easily controlled? Time will tell. I really hope we can turn this season around and finish strong.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 9, 2018 11:18:34 GMT -5
Seems like we never send a man in motion or do much else to make the defense adjust Which is the antithesis of Spread and Shred.
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Post by td128 on Oct 9, 2018 16:40:57 GMT -5
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Post by joutsHC77 on Oct 9, 2018 17:06:53 GMT -5
Lot of those receivers from the 2017 UNH game are still with us, ain’t gettin’ ‘em da ball!!! Do it!!!!!
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 10, 2018 7:01:19 GMT -5
Seems like we never send a man in motion or do much else to make the defense adjust Which is the antithesis of Spread and Shred. Contract and don' t react?
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