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Post by sader1970 on Oct 14, 2018 20:26:29 GMT -5
No, didn't mean to imply that Nate Pine is leaving but there seems to be the usual grousing about what a poor job Nate Pine seems to be doing after the grousing about what a poor job Dick Regan did. I posted the comments and questions below on another thread but think it deserves its own:
Just for the record, for all those who think Nate was a bad hire, I would be interested in seeing your thoughts posted here for posterity as no one stays in these jobs forever and Nate has already been here longer than many of us thought.
So, let's assume Nate leaves within the next 3 to 5 years, maybe sooner, what credentials should Holy Cross be looking for? At what salary range? And bonus points if you can identify specific persons who Holy Cross should target.
Example: should we be looking for someone who already has been an AD? Focus on a young assistant AD? What conference(s)? Should the person be from the PL or IL to understand the academics? Should the person be a former athlete? Should the person have been a coach? If so, what sport? How much should we expect to pay? Should a woman be considered for the job? Does the person need to have played or coached at Holy Cross?
Pretty easy to say Dick Regan or Nate Pine aren't "successes" if you don't have to come up with an alternative.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 15, 2018 8:52:16 GMT -5
First three that come to my mind:
1) Know sports. In particular, how to hire and develop coaches.
2) Have the ability to truly transform Football and Men's Basketball into the marquee sports that they are should be at Holy Cross. Make Fall Saturdays at Fitton Field events that all HC fans and alums want to attend. Generate interest in the Men's Basketball program again.
3) Be "all in" for Holy Cross. It's one thing to hire someone who wants to be a "big time" AD one day, but while he/she is at HC it has to be all about HC and not about just growing his/her personal "brand."
Assessing our two most recent ADs against this criteria would show that Dick Regan had 1 out of 3 (#3) and Pine has zero. As a result, we have experienced ~20 years of losing, with the Ralph Willard era and the first part of Tom Gilmore's years as the only major exceptions.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 15, 2018 12:15:53 GMT -5
So, Dick was better than Nate? Not sure you would get many to jump on that bandwagon.
Do agree that Nate seems to have 3 things he has focused on. IMO they are in order:
1. Fundraising (seems very successful) 2. Branding (Holy Cross’, not his personal brand - much less successful and also doubtful he fought to defend the Crusader. Probably thought it was too “old school”) 3. Academic success of student-athletes (seems he has at minimum maintained the already high standards and perhaps bettered them)
I suspect the hiring of coaches has been a much lower priority for him. Maybe that’s for the next guy?
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 15, 2018 12:44:32 GMT -5
Programs' winning games isn't mentioned anywhere. So I guess they're all successful.
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Post by gks on Oct 15, 2018 13:52:17 GMT -5
Fundraising is now the #1, 2 and 3 job of the Athletic Director at any D1 school. I would place winning 4th. It's all about raising coin and building facilities.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 15, 2018 14:43:51 GMT -5
So, Dick was better than Nate? Not sure you would get many to jump on that bandwagon. Do agree that Nate seems to have 3 things he has focused on. IMO they are in order: 1. Fundraising (seems very successful) 2. Branding (Holy Cross’, not his personal brand - much less successful and also doubtful he fought to defend the Crusader. Probably thought it was too “old school”) 3. Academic success of student-athletes (seems he has at minimum maintained the already high standards and perhaps bettered them) I suspect the hiring of coaches has been a much lower priority for him. Maybe that’s for the next guy? Re: Regan vs Pine -- No, Regan just checked off 1 of those 3 boxes. Neither were/are good. But Regan did bring in Ralph Willard, which is an exponentially greater accomplishment than anything Pine has on his resume. I sort of agree. However, I would make a couple slight tweaks: 1) Winning -- Major fail. IMO, Pine's top priority had to be winning so he could move on to his next gig. 2) Nate Pine Brand -- I direct you to his bio, which still states the following in the opening paragraph: "Nathan Pine is in his fifth full academic year as the director of athletics at the College of the Holy Cross in 2018-2019. Since being named the school's eighth director of athletics on Dec. 17, 2013, Pine has quickly revitalized the athletics program and transformed the athletics culture on Mount St. James to put Holy Cross back into the national consciousness"3) Fundraising -- Agreed that it does appear that money coming in has increased, but the significance of that diminishes if we can't use the money to actually execute a better athletic program 4) HC Branding -- Agreed that this has not been successful. The new shield logo (that was originally just a lousy secondary logo) is now a lousy primary logo. Social media presence has increased to a "market average" level, but we have not been able to execute against any marketing initiatives in a way that drive results. 5) Academic success (because initiative #1 has failed) -- I would agree with "maintain" here, but the only thing that increased is the number of press releases and stats that get made up to tout academic success of athletes (that has been occurring at HC forever) as if it's a major accomplishment.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 15, 2018 15:37:47 GMT -5
I didn’t say winning isn’t important (to us fans and players) but just don’t think TPTB gave this as a high priority for him. I think HC remains a huge believer in participation trophies.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 15, 2018 16:15:45 GMT -5
That is sad to hear. After all you can still give "participation" awards to players on a winning team. The two are not exclusive, are they?
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 15, 2018 20:36:51 GMT -5
Rob, that's a rhetorical question, right? Of course participating does not preclude winning. In fact, you pretty much can't win unless you participate. My use of that phase was in the common usage now, meaning just playing with no regard for actually winning. But you knew that.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 15, 2018 21:22:08 GMT -5
Lockbaum should be AD....what does Pine really do that Gordie can't/couldn't?
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 16, 2018 6:03:58 GMT -5
Rob, that's a rhetorical question, right? Of course participating does not preclude winning. In fact, you pretty much can't win unless you participate. My use of that phase was in the common usage now, meaning just playing with no regard for actually winning. But you knew that. Right. But a different meaning commonly given to "participation trophy" is one that a player gets just for being there. It does not mean that the school, the team o the layer have no regard for winning. After all, just being there can still be a rewarding experience for some not gifted enough to get on the field/court but offer their support in other ways (practice for example). But you knew that.
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Post by trimster on Oct 16, 2018 7:58:11 GMT -5
First three that come to my mind: 1) Know sports. In particular, how to hire and develop coaches. 2) Have the ability to truly transform Football and Men's Basketball into the marquee sports that they are should be at Holy Cross. Make Fall Saturdays at Fitton Field events that all HC fans and alums want to attend. Generate interest in the Men's Basketball program again. 3) Be "all in" for Holy Cross. It's one thing to hire someone who wants to be a "big time" AD one day, but while he/she is at HC it has to be all about HC and not about just growing his/her personal "brand." Assessing our two most recent ADs against this criteria would show that Dick Regan had 1 out of 3 (#3) and Pine has zero. As a result, we have experienced ~20 years of losing, with the Ralph Willard era and the first part of Tom Gilmore's years as the only major exceptions. IMHO number two ain't happening any time soon, if ever. I don't see how anyone could accomplish that as our AD without a seismic shift on the part of the Administration in their view of the role of athletics at HC. It took one 35-40 years to get us where we are today and it will take another one to accomplish #2. I just don't see it happening. You can try to market the "revenue sports" all you want but it won't make much of a difference in how the locals, the media, the alumni and students view the athletic program. As far as #1 and #3 are concerned, hiring is a bit of a crapshoot, (I am not implying it's mostly luck), and we don't know that Nate Pine isn't all in on HC.
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Post by gks on Oct 16, 2018 8:41:16 GMT -5
Lockbaum should be AD....what does Pine really do that Gordie can't/couldn't? While I agree, the days of former college athletes becoming ADs are unfortunately gone. Pencil pushers and penny pinchers seem to be the preferred choice. The team-AD relationship is different now. Many ADs can't relate to what the student-athletes go through.
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 9, 2019 12:40:59 GMT -5
The chairman of the HC board of trustees stated this afternoon that the final three candidates for Athletic Director were on campus this week. He did not provide their names.
The announcement should be made within a few days.
Look for the white smoke above the LAC. 😊
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 9, 2019 12:56:43 GMT -5
This tells us everything we need to know
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Post by sader1970 on May 9, 2019 13:18:29 GMT -5
Crucis, I assume you were in on the same webinar as I was based on your post.
I was keeping notes and Rick Patterson said that we will have a new "AD announcement in the coming days." While that implies the next couple or 3 days for someone like me, it's vague enough that it could be months. Only because Fr. B was quoted awhile back that he wanted the position filled at the end of the academic year, I would guess we'll hear no later than Memorial Day. At this point, it probably makes little difference.
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Post by longsuffering on May 9, 2019 13:25:00 GMT -5
IAD Sullivan would obviously have been on campus this week. Do you think there were two other finalists on campus this week or three? I would say two, but that is not an endorsement. Did the webinar clarify?
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Post by Crucis#1 on May 9, 2019 13:31:56 GMT -5
Yes, my comment was based on the statement made in the webinar. Rick Patterson noted that the AD search was wrapping up, but did not provide additional details.
I would presume that once the decision is made, the selected candidate would finalize their contract, notify their current employer, take a couple weeks vacation, and start on July 1st.
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Post by longsuffering on May 10, 2019 1:03:00 GMT -5
It will be incredibly exciting to see Fr. B step out onto the O'Kane porch face the breathlessly awaiting assembled throng and announce: "We Have An Athletic Director." Then, the new AD can step out onto the porch, face the crowd and say a few words humbly asking for thoughts and prayers during his reign at the top of HC athletics. May God provide strength and wisdom to the new AD because she/he will certainly need it. LoveHC I like that image MM. A bit too creative for the HC Administration but it works for me.
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