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Post by rgs318 on Oct 21, 2018 10:07:40 GMT -5
Massey makes Holy Cross a 14 point favorite (38-24) with an 84% chance for the win.
Not only does football need a win here, I think it will be a standout loss among so many HC losses this fall if Lehigh wins. A win could indicate the start of a turnaround for the team...or a loss show HC has reached a new low.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 21, 2018 10:16:35 GMT -5
From Lehigh:
WASHINGTON – A defensive battle between Lehigh and Georgetown needed overtime to be decided. A three-yard touchdown run by Jackson Saffold in the second overtime gave the Hoyas a 22-16 win over the Mountain Hawks Saturday at Cooper Field. It was the Hoyas' first win over Lehigh since 1925, snapping a 17-game Lehigh winning streak in the series. Lehigh trailed 9-6 through much of the game, but pulled even on Ed Mish's 27-yard field goal with 7:46 to play. Georgetown's Brad Hurst missed five field goals, including two which were blocked to keep the teams level. Georgetown scored on its first possession of overtime and Lehigh answered with a 20-yard pass from senior Brad Mayes to junior Devon Bibbens on a 4th-and-5 to extend the game. The Mountain Hawks' second overtime possession ended on an interception on a ball that was ruled to be deflected off sophomore Jorge Portorreal before Saffold's second overtime touchdown gave the Hoyas the win. "The streak was never going to last forever," Lehigh head coach Andy Coen said. "You have to give the Georgetown players a lot of credit, there are a lot of dynamic players on that squad. When you're in such a defensive game and it's going back and forth, it's eventually going to break one way, but unfortunately, it didn't break our way." The loss is Lehigh's sixth straight as the Mountain Hawks fall to 1-6 overall and 0-2 in the league. Georgetown is now 4-4 and 3-0 in the league. Georgetown's biggest play through regulation came on its third play from scrimmage as Michael Dereus got behind the Lehigh defense on third down and Gunther Johnson connected for a 70-yard touchdown. Lehigh answered on its second offensive possession as Mayes hit sophomore Jorge Portorreal for an 85-yard catch-and-run to get the Mountain Hawks in the end zone. Unfortunately for the visiting Mountain Hawks, Mish's extra point attempt was blocked and Georgetown returned the blocked kick for two points. From there the Lehigh defense stood tall, keeping the Hoyas off the scoreboard through the final 58:27 of regulation. Lehigh got its ground game going in the second half. Senior Dom Bragalone rushed eight times for five yards in the first half but came back with 85 in the second half to finish with 90 yards on 28 carries. The Mountain Hawks moved the ball well in the second half, but struggled to sustain drives and put points on the board. Mish's tying field goal capped a 13-play, 66-yard drive that knocked 5:36 off the clock. The Hoyas had a chance to win the game in regulation, but Marquis Wilson blocked Hurst's 41-yard field goal attempt. Mayes finished 16-of-40 for 253 yards with two touchdowns and two interceptions. Portorreal hauled in a career-high 151 yards on six catches. Georgetown finished with a slight 363-357 edge in total yards and a 31:19-28:41 advantage in time of possession. "We've got to find a way to get balanced,". We're not going to be a good offense if we can't run and throw the ball consistently." Johnson finished 16-of-37 for 270 yards and one touchdown. Saffold did most of his damage in overtime, finishing with 50 yards on 18 carries. Starting linebackers Jon Seighman and Keith Woetzel totaled 31 tackles, four tackles for loss and Seighman added half a sack. "I ask these kids to play their hearts out, and that's what they did today," Coen said. "I'm proud of how they reacted and how they played in this situation. This was probably one of the first times our defense played consistently and it's a shame that the difference in this game was two big plays." EXTRA POINTS… The loss was Lehigh's first against the Hoyas since Georgetown joined the Patriot League in 2001… the/b] Mountain Hawks are 0-2 in the Patriot League for just the third time in program history (2007, 2014)… the six game losing streak is Lehigh's longest since the 1967 lost its last eight games[/b]… seniors Harrison Kauffman and Juwan Morrow each had sacks, while sophomore Erik Slater shared a sack with Seighman… Lehigh is now 7-5 in overtime games and suffered its first-ever loss in a double overtime game (2-1)… the Mountain Hawks' last overtime game prior to Saturday was a 51-44 double overtime win over Central Connecticut State in the 2013 season opener… Bragalone went over the 4,000 yard rushing mark for his career, finishing the day at 4,001… the long touchdown pass to Portorreal tied the sixth longest pass play in school history and the first 80-plus yard pass since an 84 yard touchdown pass from Nick Shafnisky to Derek Knott in the 2016 Fordham game… Lehigh paired its white helmets and white jerseys with gold pants for the first time.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 21, 2018 10:21:24 GMT -5
Massey makes Holy Cross a 14 point favorite (38-24) with an 84% chance for the win. Not only does football need a win here, I think it will be a standout loss among so many HC Losses this fall if Lehigh wins. It could indicate the start of a turnaround for the team...or a new low. Agree and disagree. Since we are ranked 80 (Massey) and 1-6 Lehigh an astonishing 111 (sandwiched right between non-schollie Butler and non-schollie Marist), a loss would perhaps be a new low but a win (IMHO) does not indicate a turnaround. More of a 'stop the bleeding' than a turnaround.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 21, 2018 10:44:28 GMT -5
At this point, I am not sure there is a difference. It is the next game that marks a win (should HC get one) as a turning point - or simply a break in the bleeding.
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Post by purplepig on Oct 21, 2018 13:50:51 GMT -5
A win is always a win. A loss ... a loss to Lehigh would indicate zero improvement this season. What is going on in South Bethlehem goes beyond bad football. It’s approaching total collapse. How a team with Bragalone can lose to Georgetown is a mystery. The Hoyas usually have a few top athletes surrounded by Pioneer League types. This year that is enough to put them in the title hunt.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 22, 2018 20:39:39 GMT -5
Team should be fired up for Lehigh. They've had our number of late. Last three meetings weren't even close -- seniors need to take out some frustrations over this dumpster fire of a squad.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 22, 2018 21:52:43 GMT -5
Coach Chesney and staff, I’ll bet, have been working on some new plays, new looks, new tactics, new whatever so that Lehigh and we fans will see a very different team than we saw in the first half of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 23:27:23 GMT -5
Coach Chesney and staff, I’ll bet, have been working on some new plays, new looks, new tactics, new whatever so that Lehigh and we fans will see a very different team than we saw in the first half of the season. Yea, that's generally what you do in the bye week after a 1-6 start. Lehigh must have a Murphy type OC as well. Who is going to have the most successful check downs and QB runs to get the win? It's going to be a barn burner!
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 22, 2018 23:57:48 GMT -5
Coach Chesney and staff, I’ll bet, have been working on some new plays, new looks, new tactics, new whatever so that Lehigh and we fans will see a very different team than we saw in the first half of the season. Yea, that's generally what you do in the bye week after a 1-6 start. Lehigh must have a Murphy type OC as well. Who is going to have the most successful check downs and QB runs to get the win? It's going to be a barn burner! It should be clear to all that you have great contempt for the current staff and for the team's prospects. You communicate that each game and here in preparation for the Lehigh game. I just checked the "predictions for the second season" thread and did not see any commentary from you--maybe I missed it. If not, why don't you "go on record" and predict 1 win or even 0 wins for the rest of the season and set yourself up for an always satisfying "I told you so" at season's end?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 8:51:35 GMT -5
Yea, that's generally what you do in the bye week after a 1-6 start. Lehigh must have a Murphy type OC as well. Who is going to have the most successful check downs and QB runs to get the win? It's going to be a barn burner! It should be clear to all that you have great contempt for the current staff and for the team's prospects. You communicate that each game and here in preparation for the Lehigh game. I just checked the "predictions for the second season" thread and did not see any commentary from you--maybe I missed it. If not, why don't you "go on record" and predict 1 win or even 0 wins for the rest of the season and set yourself up for an always satisfying "I told you so" at season's end? I think we should get the win at Lehigh and potentially finish with 3-4 wins this year. Looking at the 2019 schedule, I think Chesney does about the same next year (3-4 wins) with his current skill set as an HC.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 23, 2018 8:57:10 GMT -5
So you believe his skill set made him a consistent winner at his other schools, but won't work at HC. What do you see as the problem with Holy Cross?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 8:58:21 GMT -5
Yea, that's generally what you do in the bye week after a 1-6 start. Lehigh must have a Murphy type OC as well. Who is going to have the most successful check downs and QB runs to get the win? It's going to be a barn burner! It should be clear to all that you have great contempt for the current staff and for the team's prospects. You communicate that each game and here in preparation for the Lehigh game. I just checked the "predictions for the second season" thread and did not see any commentary from you--maybe I missed it. If not, why don't you "go on record" and predict 1 win or even 0 wins for the rest of the season and set yourself up for an always satisfying "I told you so" at season's end? I don't have great contempt for the coaching staff, but I do believe this team could have finished with at least 6 wins this year. Regardless of opinions on Gilmore, I think the firing/coaching search was very poorly executed by Pine and the program will pay for it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 9:11:30 GMT -5
So you believe his skill set made him a consistent winner at his other schools, but won't work at HC. What do you see as the problem with Holy Cross? He doesn't have a strong enough coaching acumen or personality to have long term success at the FCS level. Offensive schemes lack any type of basic motion/te trade to get an advantage at the point of attack, has poor clock management in key situations, fails to make halftime adjustments, ineffective at putting together offensive game plans, and has a personality that will grate on players over time (fake inspirational type). If I have time, I can put together a more comprehensive list. I think he has a great staff in place with Ari Confessor, Chris Smith, Anthony Dimichele, and Scott James. Too much talent on this team to be 1-6.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 23, 2018 9:16:43 GMT -5
Please do, since most of these opinions do not mean much...such as, he wasn't an outstanding football player (I assume you mean in college and some outstanding college players have been a disaster as coaches.), he exudes a "fake positive" attitude (I do not see that being fake at all), he didn't play freshman (his recruiting class) enough (from game 1 he has used frosh throughout games).
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 23, 2018 9:48:40 GMT -5
Agree with some of what 43 says, not so much other parts.
First, no way is Bob’s enthusiasm “fake.” He is the way he is all the time. It is genuine. Fake is when he turns it on sometimes and not other times.
Second, clock management. I loved Tom G but there were too many games that were close and lost due to clock management. Whether due to his poor offensive coordinator or his direct responsibility, as we’ve discussed multiple times, it falls on the head coach. I might have played the clock differently than Bob on occasion but I am not a head coach and I think it too early to ding Bob for this.
43 likes Bob’s assistants, mostly those who were former Crusader players. I am fine with that. They were really good players but the best coaches were not necessarily the best players which has the major element of natural physical abilities. While I can’t personally stand Belichick, I and many would concede he is an excellent coach and not aware of him being a great player.
I do think there is a major flaw in our playing calling and that falls on the OC and ultimately Bob C.
Let’s see how the second half of the season goes against lesser foes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 10:12:45 GMT -5
Agree with some of what 43 says, not so much other parts. First, no way is Bob’s enthusiasm “fake.” He is the way he is all the time. It is genuine. Fake is when he turns it on sometimes and not other times. Second, clock management. I loved Tom G but there were too many games that were close and lost due to clock management. Whether due to his poor offensive coordinator or his direct responsibility, as we’ve discussed multiple times, it falls on the head coach. I might have played the clock differently than Bob on occasion but I am not a head coach and I think it too early to ding Bob for this. 43 likes Bob’s assistants, mostly those who were former Crusader players. I am fine with that. They were really good players but the best coaches were not necessarily the best players which has the major element of natural physical abilities. While I can’t personally stand Belichick, I and many would concede he is an excellent coach and not aware of him being a great player. I do think there is a major flaw in our playing calling and that falls on the OC and ultimately Bob C. Let’s see how the second half of the season goes against lesser foes. You're probably right about the limitations on judging coaches by their playing ability. Personally, I just have a hard time listening to anyone in an authority position that fails to produce AND doesn't have a track record that aligns with what I view as successful. His dad was a football coach and he went to Dickinson? What? He is a second generation coach and the best school he has been associated with is Assumption prior to HC? Maybe that's a shallow way of looking at things and I am naive. Time will tell.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 23, 2018 10:23:59 GMT -5
See, here’s the thing. Many head coaches start at the bottom of the ladder and work their way up unless they have the benefit of being a superstar playing reputation where they can skip a bunch of rungs.
I’ve met both Coach Bob and his Dad. They are quality people and his father was a successful high school coach and believe he could have gone college ranks but preferred to stay local.
As posted above, perhaps our most successful head coach came from the lower division.
Coach Bob May have started at D-3 Salve Regina, proved himself and graduated to D-2 Assumption and now will likely be a success at D-IAA Holy Cross. I still believe in 5 years or less we will lose him to a higher level school.
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Post by dharry13 on Oct 23, 2018 10:24:48 GMT -5
4crusader3 - Don't understand the coaching acumen comment? Why - because he coached D2 football? Then I guess Chip Kelly would have never made it.
I can assure you there are many teams in top leve D2 in America (where Assumption was) that would beat low level FCS teams. His personality will grate on players over time - based on what anecdotal evidence? I see PJ Fleck and Dabo Sweeney having some success? I'm not saying he's there, but hell, give the guy somewhat of a chance. . His personality worked for D3, and D2....so I guess that personality doesn't work on FCS? Not sure why that would be.
Where I certainly agree with you is on the Offensive front. Play calling and ineffective game plans. Both have been quite poor in my opinion as well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 10:35:49 GMT -5
4crusader3 - Don't understand the coaching acumen comment? Why - because he coached D2 football? Then I guess Chip Kelly would have never made it. I can assure you there are many teams in top leve D2 in America (where Assumption was) that would beat low level FCS teams. His personality will grate on players over time - based on what anecdotal evidence? I see PJ Fleck and Dabo Sweeney having some success? I'm not saying he's there, but hell, give the guy somewhat of a chance. . His personality worked for D3, and D2....so I guess that personality doesn't work on FCS? Not sure why that would be. Where I certainly agree with you is on the Offensive front. Play calling and ineffective game plans. Both have been quite poor in my opinion as well. Chip Kelly? Not really sure what you're referring to? Playing Career: UNH (defensive back) Kelly broke into the coaching ranks in 1990 at Columbia University, where he served as secondary and special teams coach for the freshman team. The next year, he was outside linebackers and strong safeties coach for the varsity team. In 1992, he went to the University of New Hampshire as the running backs coach. He left to become the defensive coordinator at the Johns Hopkins University for one season. He returned to his alma mater as the running backs coach for the next three seasons (1994–96). He was just in time to devise a zone-blocking scheme for star Jerry Azumah. From 1995 through 1998, the speedy back raised the profile of UNH football as he rushed for what was then an FCS record 6,193 yards.[4] He changed to the offensive line coach for two seasons (1997–98).[2] Kelly was promoted to offensive coordinator at New Hampshire (1999–2006). The Wildcats' offenses averaged better than 400 yards per game of total offense in seven of his eight seasons[1] In 2004, the school broke 29 offensive school records; compiling 5,446 yards of total offense and scoring 40 or more points in seven games. Their best offensive output was in 2005 when the Wildcats finished second nationally in total offense (493.5 ypg), third in scoring (41.7 ppg) and fifth in passing (300.1 ypg). They completed the season with an 11–2 record. He was named the College Assistant Coach of the Year by the Gridiron Club of Greater Boston following the 2005 season in addition to being selected as "one of college football's hottest coaches" by American Football Monthly.[5] In 2006, quarterback Ricky Santos won the Walter Payton Award under Kelly's guidance, after Santos finished second in balloting for the award in 2005.[5] Kelly, along with Florida Gators head coach Dan Mullen, former Winnipeg Blue Bombers offensive coordinator Gary Crowton and Philadelphia Eagles quarterbacks coach Ryan Day, are part of the so-called "New Hampshire mafia" as they all have strong connections to New Hampshire.[6]
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 23, 2018 10:45:27 GMT -5
4Crusader3-
Chesney has produced outstanding results wherever he has coached. I believe he will do so at HC. To deny his long record of success reduces the credibility of your insights in my opinion
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 10:59:08 GMT -5
4Crusader3- Chesney has produced outstanding results wherever he has coached. I believe he will do so at HC. To deny his long record of success reduces the credibility of your insights in my opinion He definitely has had success at Salva Regina and Assumption. But how much weight does that really hold? He went 6-4 in his first season at SR and 6-5 at Assumption.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 11:03:58 GMT -5
4crusader3 - Don't understand the coaching acumen comment? Why - because he coached D2 football? Then I guess Chip Kelly would have never made it. I can assure you there are many teams in top leve D2 in America (where Assumption was) that would beat low level FCS teams. His personality will grate on players over time - based on what anecdotal evidence? I see PJ Fleck and Dabo Sweeney having some success? I'm not saying he's there, but hell, give the guy somewhat of a chance. . His personality worked for D3, and D2....so I guess that personality doesn't work on FCS? Not sure why that would be. Where I certainly agree with you is on the Offensive front. Play calling and ineffective game plans. Both have been quite poor in my opinion as well. You meant Brian Kelly. Even with that argument, Brian Kelly coached at a national powerhouse at the D- II level. Grand Valley State is a MUCH STRONGER PROGRAM than Salva Regina or Assumption. My dad played in Div II and I have known about Grand Valley State since I was a kid. It holds a lot more weight than any school Chesney has been associated with.
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Post by dharry13 on Oct 23, 2018 11:17:13 GMT -5
No I actually meant Chip Kelly. He was successful at 1-AA so by your theory couldn’t be successful at 1A. And with Brian Kelly you’re just twisting your argument to satisfy your narrative. Chesney took two no name programs and built them up. Assumption was nothing, zero, nada. Then they went to NCAA playoffs twice. Based on that I’m willing to give the guy a shot.
I might be wrong, but his lack of success won’t have anything to do with where he has coached previously. Every great coach got a break in order for them to become great. He earned that break here through his previous tenures. I’m willing to give him more than 7 games. Relax on the capital letters by the way tough guy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 11:44:50 GMT -5
No I actually meant Chip Kelly. He was successful at 1-AA so by your theory couldn’t be successful at 1A. And with Brian Kelly you’re just twisting your argument to satisfy your narrative. Chesney took two no name programs and built them up. Assumption was nothing, zero, nada. Then they went to NCAA playoffs twice. Based on that I’m willing to give the guy a shot. I might be wrong, but his lack of success won’t have anything to do with where he has coached previously. Every great coach got a break in order for them to become great. He earned that break here through his previous tenures. I’m willing to give him more than 7 games. Relax on the capital letters by the way tough guy. You're trying to tell me that Brian Kelly and Chip Kelly's early resumes are comparable to Chesney? Eh, no. Not even close.
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Post by dharry13 on Oct 23, 2018 11:48:32 GMT -5
Nope. Not what I said. They simply got a shot from a lower division and made the most of it. Chesney now simply has the same opportunity which he earned. Time will tell if HC made the right bet, but I’m not going to cast him off simply because he came from Assumption where he took a dormant program and made it successful quickly.
He earned the opportunity is pretty much it.
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