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Post by hc80 on Oct 22, 2018 20:12:14 GMT -5
Is it time to consider this as a possibility? We are in a football conference that is pathetic and the possibility that it will improve dramatically is at least questionable if not totally doubtful. Apparently we cannot afford quality coordinators (this years OC as the poster child).
I look at the balance of the home schedule and just can’t excited about watching 2 teams at 1-6 this weekend. The November 10 game versus Fordham - they lost to Bryant - is so unappealing. I have had season tickets almost every year for a really long time but I am worn out. Is it time to reallocate funds?
Nate Pine - time for a gut check. Status quo is just awful - new coach or not - too many losses for too many years. New coach is scared - new OC is awful. And even a win versus a terrible Lehigh team does not make this better. Time to make some hard decisions.
For me, fall golf is the new way to go.
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Post by HC92 on Oct 22, 2018 20:30:31 GMT -5
I think we have to give it a full five years under Chesney. If it still looks like this, I wouldn’t be averse to at least having the discussion. I remain optimistic it will look much better in a few years.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 22, 2018 20:35:51 GMT -5
2017 - HC drops the Crusader 202X - HC drops football
I think at that point I would just stop telling people that I graduated from Holy Cross. I would be that upset. Hope we turn it around, needs to happen soon.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 22, 2018 20:36:30 GMT -5
Yes, let’s not panic, let’s not be rash, let’s give Coach Chesney a chance.
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Post by thecrossisback on Oct 22, 2018 20:38:00 GMT -5
Are you insane? A bad year and drop football? To many loyal fans. The conference is weak, but if they start to win it, they can advance to FCS playoffs. Teams go in stretches, you can't always have good teams. Football in the northeast is down right now, but teams will get better. My first year having season tickets at 19. Been to most games, and even in the loses, it has been fun. Went to BC, Yale, Dartmouth, Bucknell, Harvard and plan on going to the last two home games. Besides without HC football, what would I do in the Fall? Go to Worcester State games. Nah.
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Post by gks on Oct 22, 2018 20:49:59 GMT -5
Minus a miracle run to the NCAA tourney a few years ago basketball has struggled just as much. Would you propose the same fate for the basketball teams?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 21:09:52 GMT -5
2017 - HC drops the Crusader 202X - HC drops football I think at that point I would just stop telling people that I graduated from Holy Cross. I would be that upset. Hope we turn it around, needs to happen soon. To be honest man, I always try to avoid the topic. The conversation focuses on one of two things: 1. Liberal or religious agenda (I don't care about political correctness or organized religion) 2. Rudy Ruettiger I think football does fine in the CAA. I am not placing any faith in Pine or Chesney.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 22, 2018 21:21:17 GMT -5
Can’t happen!!!
Overall image and demographics would be severally impacted for the elite club that HC wants to be associated, I.e Patriot/Ivy.
As noted outside of a miracle shot by Rob Champion, Basketball, both M/W have underperformed over the last 10 years, in a sport that is easier to turn around.
Besides, when I win both Mega Millions and Powerball this week, there will be an endowed position for each football coach to ensure stability and a decent salary and a full makeover of Fitton. 😎 Hope my wife and kids will agree with this decision and don’t out vote me.
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Post by crusader12 on Oct 22, 2018 21:34:25 GMT -5
I wasted my entire month of september at HC football games. What a waste! Fall boating is the way to go, there's just no appeal!
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Post by hc87 on Oct 22, 2018 21:44:47 GMT -5
I've wasted close to 50 years following HC football...... The league is a major problem right now. It's just not set up to be truly competitive with the best FCS programs in the East or nationally.
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Post by joe on Oct 23, 2018 5:33:35 GMT -5
I’m going to wait out one more regime. Last chance. Especially if my kids do not attend the college. Too much time invested. Too many trips to Fitton, embarrassed and driving home in the third quarter, too many memories of the same while playing.
And they could have had an entire endowed coaching staff if they didn’t blow 97 million on the Luth for facilities used by a bunch of ancillary sports that should have been dropped long ago. Just a fraction of that insane sum of money could have rebuilt the football, basketball, and hockey programs from the ground up, both in terms of personnell and facilities. Good God the money flushed. And they think the Crusader mascot was a sin? You could have fed the third world for a decade with that cash. Priorities are totally messed up.
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Post by td128 on Oct 23, 2018 5:38:42 GMT -5
What is our best guesstimate as to the value of the real estate?
I know there is increasing demand these days for senior care facilities. Not sure that a youth camp is a viable option but willing to defer to those who might think that is worth exploring.
I know Amazon is down the road in terms of finding a second base of operations. Anybody got a number for Jeff Bezos?
Wow . . . if I wanted to go to Skidmore, I would have just applied there.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 23, 2018 6:05:38 GMT -5
If it were not for our tremendous financial investment in facilities the past few years I am sure there would be many more who would suggest going the way of BU and Northeastern in dropping D-I football (or going the way of MIT or the University of Chicago or NESCAC member schools and playing D-III football).
A rational calculation would eyeball DI (FCS) football expense v benefit nowadays. A mediocre or worse HC team in a weak football league with little fan interest doubtlessly impacts the 'benefit' side of that calculation.
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Post by spenser on Oct 23, 2018 7:26:40 GMT -5
I think we have to give it a full five years under Chesney. If it still looks like this, I wouldn’t be averse to at least having the discussion. I remain optimistic it will look much better in a few years. Absolutely right. Give it a chance for the term of Coach Chesney’s contract. If he can’t turn it around the discussion is definitely worth having. But certainly not now. Seven games is is not an adequate sample. And believe me, I gave this some thought during the later portion of the Gilmore era.
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Post by td128 on Oct 23, 2018 7:37:26 GMT -5
The long term cost/benefit analysis is skewed much more in the favor of making sure we have full and effective coordination in place among all parties involved than taking our ball and going home.
Perhaps somebody from Mount Saint James may want to get in the car and take a trip to Hamilton, NY and inquire as to what they are doing and how they are doing it not only in football but in many other athletic pursuits as well. (h/t ph).
#leadership
#vision
#execution
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 23, 2018 7:38:11 GMT -5
This has elements of a troll thread. 1.) The roll of the dice on Chesney is whether a coach with ZERO prior experience in Division I can build a successful Div I football program. I doubt HC will wait until year four or five before pulling the trigger if success doesn't look like its forthcoming. 2.) This year's PL looks, overall, to be less competitive than it was prior to scollies, and the transition years when rosters were half scollies and half-need. Why is that? Georgetown with only need-based aid, is beating up on the scollie teams. Of course, Georgetown may be playing with 40, 50, 60+ equivalencies. The only limit on equivalencies on Georgetown is its agreement to a roster limit of 90. 3.) The AI is not a legitimate excuse. Georgetown and Fordham are both subject to the AI with respect to their football rosters. Because Georgetown has the highest AI among PL schools, GU has a smaller pool of players from which it can recruit than the other PL schools. Colgate has the next highest AI. The football team at HYP must have a mean AI within one standard deviation of the school-wide AI for HYP. The school-wide AI for PL schools, other than GU and Colgate, probably approaches the mean AI for HYP football. That said, admissions rates at Harvard for recruited athletes are much higher than for non-athletes with the same test scores and GPA. See: www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/6/30/athlete-admissions/^^^Are PL schools that much different? 4.) The monies donated for the Luth were given for that purpose. If these donors wanted to endow the compensation of the football coaching staff instead, they could/would have done so. 5.) It is more likely that a Villanova or Richmond will drop to the PL than it is of HC joining the CAA. The CAA is really the realm of large, public universities, and private universities e.g., Northeastern and Hofstra, have dropped football rather than continue playing in the CAA. 6.) If one wants to put more money into football, don't have the men join HE.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 23, 2018 8:16:09 GMT -5
The long term cost/benefit analysis is skewed much more in the favor of making sure we have full and effective coordination in place among all parties involved than taking our ball and going home. Perhaps somebody from Mount Saint James may want to get in the car and take a trip to Hamilton, NY and inquire as to what they are doing and how they are doing it not only in football but in many other athletic pursuits as well. (h/t ph). #leadership #vision #execution No doubt Colgate has made some correct choices to enhance their academic and athletic accomplishments/reputation over the years. Other schools (U Chicago, BU, Northeastern NESCAC, etc.) have as well.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 23, 2018 8:54:58 GMT -5
It's a tough call. Not a new issue either...I really don't know the extent of the discussion or how seriously it was looked at etc but I know dropping football was in the air in the early 1970s. Though it was "saved" then, it was a much different time and place obviously i.e. an all male student body and alumni, costs for the program were probably not as extensive then as they are today etc. etc.
What football does have a stranglehold on at HC (and many schools) is that it provides a backdrop for events like Homecoming, Family Weekend, President's Council etc weekends that really no other sport can provide in scope. Holy Cross football also has the luxury of playing many Ivy League schools due to their proximity and historical ties. I really don't think you can slough that off.....playing Harvard, Yale and Dartmouth in football near annually, is something that can't be too easily replicated anywhere else to bolster the school's overall brand imo.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 23, 2018 8:57:51 GMT -5
Some interesting thoughts, but it's not like HC has changed head coaches more frequently than most other schools. Prior to brining on Coach Chesney, we had Dan Allen for 8 years then Tom Gilmore for 14.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 23, 2018 8:59:02 GMT -5
2017 - HC drops the Crusader 202X - HC drops football I think at that point I would just stop telling people that I graduated from Holy Cross. I would be that upset. Hope we turn it around, needs to happen soon. To be honest man, I always try to avoid the topic. The conversation focuses on one of two things: 1. Liberal or religious agenda (I don't care about political correctness or organized religion) 2. Rudy Ruettiger I think football does fine in the CAA. I am not placing any faith in Pine or Chesney. 3. Where exactly is Worcester? 4. Wait, Holy Cross is DIVISION I??? (looks at you like they just found out Santa isn't real).
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Post by bigfan on Oct 23, 2018 10:02:43 GMT -5
Don't complain, Chesney came from D2 Assumption. Some people don't remember that Rick Carter came from D3 Dayton. Let's give the coach at least four years to bring the program up, so that we can leave the awful PL.
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Post by gks on Oct 23, 2018 12:56:39 GMT -5
Here's my two cents from a CMass, non-alum....Never drop football. Football is the life-blood of any athletic department. Sorry but basketball can't do it, except at a few places. Win and people will care.
The Patriot League is a gigantic problem. I've never seen an athletic body handcuff themselves like the Patriot League does. It has to be the worst-run league in the NCAA. I always hear that it's made up of "like minded" institutions. This could not be further from the truth in my opinion. "We're a non-scholarship league"....until HC forces us to give basketball scholarship. "We don't give football scholarships"...until Fordham forces us to give football scholarship. There is no vision, no goals and no future for this league.
As other posters have stated HC administration is another big problem. It's been 30+ years but it's still shocking to me what they gave up in the 80s. Even if they dropped football, went D3 HC athletics would struggle.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 23, 2018 15:25:21 GMT -5
Here's my two cents from a CMass, non-alum....Never drop football. Football is the life-blood of any athletic department. Sorry but basketball can't do it, except at a few places. Win and people will care. The Patriot League is a gigantic problem. I've never seen an athletic body handcuff themselves like the Patriot League does. It has to be the worst-run league in the NCAA. I always hear that it's made up of "like minded" institutions. This could not be further from the truth in my opinion. "We're a non-scholarship league"....until HC forces us to give basketball scholarship. "We don't give football scholarships"...until Fordham forces us to give football scholarship. There is no vision, no goals and no future for this league. As other posters have stated HC administration is another big problem. It's been 30+ years but it's still shocking to me what they gave up in the 80s. Even if they dropped football, went D3 HC athletics would struggle. Great post. The Patriot League can't out-Ivy the Ivy League and hamstrung itself for years trying to do so. Now we are trying to recover. As someone whose entire following of HC athletics occurred during the PL era, I don't despise the league like many of my elders do. Say what you want about the "Big East decision" in 1979, but the 1986 PL/Colonial decision to gut the football program of scholarships and place basketball amongst a group of schools with almost zero basketball history was a bad choice. Worcester has walked away. We could be in A-10 for all sports and CAA for football at this point -- would have been a better path athletically and we wouldn't have had to sell our academic soul to compete in those leagues.
But we now have to be realistic. We're in the PL for foreseeable future. No one of interest is calling -- have to find a way to build within the house that we're in.
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wstruz71
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 82
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Post by wstruz71 on Oct 23, 2018 15:30:00 GMT -5
Is it time to consider this as a possibility? We are in a football conference that is pathetic and the possibility that it will improve dramatically is at least questionable if not totally doubtful. Apparently we cannot afford quality coordinators (this years OC as the poster child). I look at the balance of the home schedule and just can’t excited about watching 2 teams at 1-6 this weekend. The November 10 game versus Fordham - they lost to Bryant - is so unappealing. I have had season tickets almost every year for a really long time but I am worn out. Is it time to reallocate funds? Nate Pine - time for a gut check. Status quo is just awful - new coach or not - too many losses for too many years. New coach is scared - new OC is awful. And even a win versus a terrible Lehigh team does not make this better. Time to make some hard decisions. For me, fall golf is the new way to go. I have been a season ticket holder for over 40 years. Over the past 2 or 3 years, I have attended 3 or 4 games of the 5 game home schedule, but I have left at half time, because the quality has been so poor. I was reneging on buying season tickets this year, but I broke down and renewed them again. However, I have yet to attend one game. I had a conflict with the Yale game, but, not with the Dartmouth or Bucknell games. I can not see myself driving 70 miles one way to watch a high school like game. Based on what I have read in the game summaries, the quality this year is much worse than it has been the last few years. I doubt if I will attend the last 2 games. I agree with hc80, the administration must revisit this program and start making some hard nosed decisions. I have one added note. Scheduling FBS schools was a big mistake. This should only happen if Holy Cross is a consistent winner at the FCS level. I have heard that it helps with recruiting, but I seriously doubt it.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 23, 2018 15:58:02 GMT -5
Is it time to consider this as a possibility? We are in a football conference that is pathetic and the possibility that it will improve dramatically is at least questionable if not totally doubtful. Apparently we cannot afford quality coordinators (this years OC as the poster child). I look at the balance of the home schedule and just can’t excited about watching 2 teams at 1-6 this weekend. The November 10 game versus Fordham - they lost to Bryant - is so unappealing. I have had season tickets almost every year for a really long time but I am worn out. Is it time to reallocate funds? Nate Pine - time for a gut check. Status quo is just awful - new coach or not - too many losses for too many years. New coach is scared - new OC is awful. And even a win versus a terrible Lehigh team does not make this better. Time to make some hard decisions. For me, fall golf is the new way to go. Scheduling FBS schools was a big mistake. This should only happen if Holy Cross is a consistent winner at the FCS level. I have heard that it helps with recruiting, but I seriously doubt it.Scheduling FBS schools is a must and should be par for the course. MANY FCS programs that have fared much worse than Holy Cross over the past 25 years all schedule FBS opponents. One of our top 3 defensive players even admitted he committed to Holy Cross in part because of this opportunity. Would our trajectory this season be any different had we beat Marist 27-14 on September 8th rather than losing to BC in front of 40,000 people? Would losing to Assumption 39-38 have been better for the program than taking the 250K paycheck and alumni engagement we saw at Chestnut Hill? You tell me.
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