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Post by timholycross on Nov 16, 2018 10:33:32 GMT -5
They beat UNH to advance to the next round.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 16, 2018 10:35:49 GMT -5
To what sport do you refer?
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Post by timholycross on Nov 16, 2018 12:05:01 GMT -5
ooops- men's soccer
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 16, 2018 12:20:53 GMT -5
Thanks, tim.
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Post by bison137 on Nov 16, 2018 12:20:56 GMT -5
It's probably worth noting that UNH was ranked #22 in the nation. Shows what can be done by a PL team if it has a full complement of scholarships.
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Post by purplehaze on Nov 16, 2018 12:32:00 GMT -5
For me, Colgate has always been the closest comparison to HC in the league. We had played them in most sports well before the PL was formed. My point is that they have a very successful athletic program, and we do not. Did you know: = their men's soccer team beat Umass and Michigan (both on the road) last year and advanced to the 'elite 8' (they're at it again this season) = we know that their men's basketball team finished 2nd in the league last year = their women's hockey team advanced to the 'frozen four, won the semifinal game and lost in the championship = their football team has been good for a long time (arguably the best team last season) and we know how good they are in 2018 = most of their minor sports are better than us - v'ball, lax, tennis, golf, sw&diving, they even beat us in rowing !
Tell me. Mr. Pine, how are they doing it and how are we not !
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 16, 2018 13:36:05 GMT -5
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 16, 2018 13:36:36 GMT -5
For the 100th time, the biggest factor is all those kids who prefer to study in a "bucolic setting" rather than a "best years are in the rearview mirror former industrial small city." We can't compete on a level playing field with those odds stacked against us! Oh, yeah, we also had an offensive mascot for decades but that will soon be remedied.
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Post by CHC8485 on Nov 16, 2018 14:13:22 GMT -5
I thought you only responded when others bring up the mascot decision, 1970. And to answer the question posed, maybe Colgate has 1 or 2 sports annually that are good in the PL and do really well outside the confines of the PL and a bunch of other teams that stink. Not to be a broken record, but here's Colgate & HC's performance over the last 5 years in PL President's cup which support that hypothesis.
| 2014 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 | Holy Cross | 7 | 7 | 6 | 6 | 7 | Colgate | 6 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 6 |
Looks pretty close overall. And yes I get it. Having 1 or 2 teams win the PL and advance to the NCAAs and do well with 20 teams finishing last, may be preferable to having 22 teams finish 7th in the league. The data here shows that overall, Colgate is not head and shoulders above HC.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 16, 2018 15:21:56 GMT -5
And, in fact, I was responding, lightheartedly and tongue-in-cheek to this prior post: My response was based on multiple people who have told me that some excellent students and student-athletes do not come to Holy Cross because "it is perceived as too Catholic" and that they found the mascot "offensive" (presumably tying in the one with the other). No one has ever given me specific names of those who self-selected out of coming. BTW, I know you are just "busting" me and that's OK.
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Post by purplehaze on Nov 16, 2018 16:22:47 GMT -5
CHC, It's only that close because they don't have a baseball team and their hockey teams play in the ECAC which is not included. Just take a look at their recent seasons and archives in various sports. We're way behind them (there's no arguing how many teams they have with winning records and our "zero" in that category)
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Post by bison137 on Nov 16, 2018 19:24:36 GMT -5
CHC, It's only that close because they don't have a baseball team and their hockey teams play in the ECAC which is not included. Just take a look at their recent seasons and archives in various sports. We're way behind them (there's no arguing how many teams they have with winning records and our "zero" in that category) Lack of a baseball team definitely takes away a few points, as does their lack of a women's golf team. However what really affects Colgate in the President's Cup is their strategy of putting all their resources into about eight sports and nothing into many others. Here are the sports CU has been terrible in: - CU was last in women's CC. HC was 7th. - CU was last in men's CC. HC was 7th. - CU was last in field hockey. HC was 5th (of 7) - CU was last in women's outdoor T&F. HC was 6th. - CU was last in men's outdoor T&F. HC was 7th. - CU was last in women's indoor T&F. HC was 6th. - CU was last in men's indoor T&F. HC was 8th. - CU was last in women's basketball. HC was tied for 6th. (Note: this is one sport that I don't think CU is punting. They just have had weak coaches and a terrible tradition.) - CU is mediocre in softball, as is HC. - CU was 7th (out of 8) in men's golf. But HC was 8th. - CU was 8th in women's tennis. But HC was 9th. But otoh, Colgate is much better in football, women's soccer, men's soccer, women's lax, men's lax, and men's tennis. They compete for PL titles in most of these sports.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 17, 2018 16:07:13 GMT -5
Colgate offers about 17.5 more men's scolles and about 11 more women's scollies than does HC. About $1.7 million more in athletically related fin aid than HC.
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Post by purplehaze on Nov 19, 2018 9:43:57 GMT -5
Colgate's season came to an end last night with a 2-0 loss at #2 Wake Forest - another great season for the Raiders who represented the league very well again.
On another topic that Pak Phreek mentioned above here, it seems to me that it makes little sense to be in a league where most of the other schools are allocating more resources to their olympic sports and the clear result ('zero' winning seasons) should not be the norm going forward. Why subject our kids to compete at a disadvantage in almost every sport ? Not sure I understand the logic.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2018 16:41:29 GMT -5
Colgate's season came to an end last night with a 2-0 loss at #2 Wake Forest - another great season for the Raiders who represented the league very well again. On another topic that Pak Phreek mentioned above here, it seems to me that it makes little sense to be in a league where most of the other schools are allocating more resources to their olympic sports and the clear result ('zero' winning seasons) should not be the norm going forward. Why subject our kids to compete at a disadvantage in almost every sport ? Not sure I understand the logic. Total athletically-related fin aid for M/W for PL football schools (-GU because they show $0 fin aid for football) fin) + BostU (because they spend so much) AU is the the bottom, Loyola gets to spend $$$ on lacrosse / soccer because they don't play football or ice hockey. Boston U $16.4 million Fordham 14.0 Bucknell 13.2 Colgate 12.8 Lehigh 12.4 HC 11.0 Lafayette 9.3 Recruiting expenses all sports 2016-17, $ in thousandsColgate 740 Georgetown 711 Fordham 618 Boston U 525 Bucknell 490 HC 467 Lehigh 419 Lafayette 345 Loyola 324
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Post by bison137 on Nov 19, 2018 17:20:04 GMT -5
Colgate's season came to an end last night with a 2-0 loss at #2 Wake Forest - another great season for the Raiders who represented the league very well again. On another topic that Pak Phreek mentioned above here, it seems to me that it makes little sense to be in a league where most of the other schools are allocating more resources to their olympic sports and the clear result ('zero' winning seasons) should not be the norm going forward. Why subject our kids to compete at a disadvantage in almost every sport ? Not sure I understand the logic. Total athletically-related fin aid for M/W for PL football schools (-GU because they show $0 fin aid for football) fin) + BostU (because they spend so much) AU is the the bottom, Loyola gets to spend $$$ on lacrosse / soccer because they don't play football or ice hockey. Boston U $16.4 million Fordham 14.0 Bucknell 13.2 Colgate 12.8 Lehigh 12.4 HC 11.0 Lafayette 9.3 Recruiting expenses all sports 2016-17, $ in thousandsColgate 740 Georgetown 711 Fordham 618 Boston U 525 Bucknell 490 HC 467 Lehigh 419 Lafayette 345 Loyola 324 Note that these numbers are not just for scholarships but also for need-based aid that is altered in any way for athletes - such as the aid PL players received for football a few years ago. A significant amount of Bucknell's aid falls into that category. I'm sure some of HC's aid does also.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2018 17:26:45 GMT -5
bison, I am waiting to see the college re-allocate some of the indirect spending for athletics to scollies, but I have long expected this, but have yet to see it. That would help level the playing field.
Looking at the audited financial statement for HC and the auxiliary expenses, it would seem HC spent no more on athletics in the 2017-18 fiscal year than it did in 2016-17. That line is essentially flat. The line does not include fin aid.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 29, 2018 8:49:04 GMT -5
For me, Colgate has always been the closest comparison to HC in the league. We had played them in most sports well before the PL was formed. My point is that they have a very successful athletic program, and we do not. Did you know: = their men's soccer team beat Umass and Michigan (both on the road) last year and advanced to the 'elite 8' (they're at it again this season) = we know that their men's basketball team finished 2nd in the league last year = their women's hockey team advanced to the 'frozen four, won the semifinal game and lost in the championship = their football team has been good for a long time (arguably the best team last season) and we know how good they are in 2018 = most of their minor sports are better than us - v'ball, lax, tennis, golf, sw&diving, they even beat us in rowing ! Tell me. Mr. Pine, how are they doing it and how are we not ! +1 And the school is in the middle of nowhere. They will be a formidable contender in PL basketball this year.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 29, 2018 9:47:21 GMT -5
haze, may I suggest that this question be directed at Fr. Boroughs and the BoT as well. Not excusing Nate at all but this isn't all on him.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 29, 2018 11:38:41 GMT -5
I watched part of the second half and the overtime of St. Mary's versus Stanford in men's soccer. It was on Stadium. Stanford won on penalty licks though St. Mary's had outplayed them in regulation time and overtime.
The stadium at St. Mary's (it was the higher seed) was packed, standing room only, --this on a Sunday afternoon of Thanksgiving weekend. (IThe soccer stadium was once the football stadium; it seats 5500.)
St. Mary's had gone undefeated regular season.
The players taking the penalty kicks for St. Mary's had foreign sounding names, so I looked at the roster. Ten or eleven of the rostered players for St. Mary's were from other countries, mostly Europe.
How does a small school like St. Mary's do so well in men's basketball and men's soccer? Perhaps their pipeline of players from other countries.. At the St. Mary's home basketball games, they ought to play the Australian national anthem as well. _____________ I did hear that HC field hockey hoped to go recruiting in Europe this year.
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Post by rickii on Nov 29, 2018 16:32:02 GMT -5
I watched part of the second half and the overtime of St. Mary's versus Stanford in men's soccer. It was on Stadium. Stanford won on penalty licks though St. Mary's had outplayed them in regulation time and overtime. The stadium at St. Mary's (it was the higher seed) was packed, standing room only, --this on a Sunday afternoon of Thanksgiving weekend. (IThe soccer stadium was once the football stadium; it seats 5500.) St. Mary's had gone undefeated regular season. The players taking the penalty kicks for St. Mary's had foreign sounding names, so I looked at the roster. Ten or eleven of the rostered players for St. Mary's were from other countries, mostly Europe. How does a small school like St. Mary's do so well in men's basketball and men's soccer? Perhaps their pipeline of players from other countries.. At the St. Mary's home basketball games, they ought to play the Australian national anthem as well. _____________ I did hear that HC field hockey hoped to go recruiting in Europe this year. You'll find the same thing at Colgate. I counted 5-6 kids with foreign sounding names plus saw 2 kids from Japan, 1 from Sweden, 1 from Austria and an apparent transfer on their roster. Conversely, HC's roster reads nothing close to that.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 29, 2018 17:43:58 GMT -5
I think one reason that colleges recruit these int'l student-athletes is to run up their "44 states and 11 foreign countries" claims re: student body. Other than to play field hockey, what would draw some of these young women to these colleges?
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 29, 2018 17:59:30 GMT -5
Degrees from American colleges are often highly valued overseas (along with the contact they provide).
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 29, 2018 18:08:44 GMT -5
Degrees from American colleges are often highly valued overseas (along with the contact they provide). Yes, but how would a student in Belgium or Thailand or Argentina decide from among 1,000+ colleges? When I was at the Coca-Cola Company in Atlanta I worked with an ex-pat from Norway--not an athlete that I know of. I found out that he went to college in the USA. and was surprised to hear that he had left home and crossed the Atlantic to go to UMass....
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 29, 2018 21:47:12 GMT -5
I daresay that all these students athletes are fluent in English; I don't believe one can successfully matriculate at a four year American college without being fairly fluent. Which would make these students more internationally minded than their American counterparts in high school. An American can get a bachelor's degree at the University of Amsterdam without speaking Dutch (a truly Gawd-awful language). www.uva.nl/en/education/bachelor-s/bachelor-s-programmes/bachelor-s-programmes.htmlBut if you're an accomplished junior athlete who attends the University of Amsterdam, this is what the university offers: student.uva.nl/en/content/az/sport-and-fitness/top-class-athletics/top-class-athletes.htmlNinety percent of the Dutch have at least some English fluency. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population________________________ Six of the 21 players on BostU's field hockey roster are from Australia / New Zealand. Eight players on Harvard's field hockey team are from England, Netherlands, New Zealand. and South Africa. To be fair, HC field hockey hss one international player, a sophmore from the Netherlands (Arnhem, 'the bridge too far') who is majoring in physics, She is PL All-academic and a member of the National Field Hockey Coaches Assn All academic squad.
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