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Post by possum on Nov 28, 2018 20:59:38 GMT -5
Floyd with only two shots is ridiculous. He and Butler have been basically no shows against the better competition. Butler 5 for 37 in those 3 games. No help from bench other than Benzan, Niego scoreless. Unfortunately playing with only two classes no help from junior or freshmen class. Grandison is the real deal and a definite POY candidate.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 28, 2018 20:59:56 GMT -5
HC has 15 assists on 21 FGs (71.4%), which is .2% better than the season number going into the game (71.2%) which was good enough for 3rd in the country.
Unfortunately, this had 0.0 impact on the game.
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Post by thecrossisback on Nov 28, 2018 21:13:02 GMT -5
So mad about this loss. But they showed no care at all. Missed free throws, missed layups, when they caused turnovers, came up with nothing for points. Frustrating, when the back door cut doesn't work the offense is lost. Why down 7 have Neigo still in the game to miss a three and two free throws. Kyle Copland dosen't really belong along with Matt Zignorski, not fit for this level. Benzan played not bad, but why not play some rookies to see what you have. Unless they are really not capable.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 28, 2018 21:15:12 GMT -5
HC has 15 assists on 21 FGs (71.4%), which is .2% better than the season number going into the game (71.2%) which was good enough for 3rd in the country. Unfortunately, this had 0.0 impact on the game. This puts some of those wacky stats into their proper perspective...if we put back some offensive rebounds that would help (but not with that stat).
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 28, 2018 21:17:52 GMT -5
Feeding frenzy has begun
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Post by cfrivals on Nov 28, 2018 21:20:24 GMT -5
Hard for this team to complete with better deep squads You have two classes with zero production. At this level I can understand freshmen but no productivity out of you junior class (only one left) really hurts.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 28, 2018 21:20:33 GMT -5
Floyd with only two shots is ridiculous. He and Butler have been basically no shows against the better competition. Butler 5 for 37 in those 3 games. No help from bench other than Benzan, Niego scoreless. Unfortunately playing with only two classes no help from junior or freshmen class. Grandison is the real deal and a definite POY candidate. Agreed. Butler has tremendous difficulty scoring under the basket against the better athletes … although he is certainly willing to drive and/or get position down low and shoot it up. When the D sags off of Grandy he makes them pay from the outside and he is tall/athletic enough to drive and score against good competition.
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Post by nhteamer on Nov 28, 2018 21:41:40 GMT -5
Fire the Offensive Coordinator!
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 28, 2018 21:47:47 GMT -5
After tonight's game HC has moved up from #156 to #154 on KenPom…...
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Nov 28, 2018 22:10:03 GMT -5
I hope people don't get hurt jumping off the bandwagon. Harvard is pretty good. HC had a bad night. On to the next game.
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Post by classof83 on Nov 28, 2018 23:13:13 GMT -5
A couple observations:
Harvard has size and length at the guard position and when we play teams with size at the guard position it is match up problem for us. IMO it makes it difficult to get the ball into JF and our offense is only effective when the ball runs through him. We won't see guards with that size in the PL so I am not that concerned.
With the exception of the press we used to get back into the game I did not see us pressure/trap Harvard's guards as they brought the ball up the court and then settle into our match-up zone. I have seen this strategy in every game I have seen - I assume to shorten the shot clock for the opposition. I am curious why we didn't employ this strategy tonight.
CBC was clearly trying to get more players into tonight's game. My impression was he was going to lengthen the bench regardless of the deficit. Not that he didn't care about winning, but it seemed to me getting other players some time was a priority .
The two times we showed the 1-3-1 zone resulted into two easy dunks for Harvard - a disaster.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 28, 2018 23:30:13 GMT -5
Amaker has really stocked the shelves the last few years. Case in point: Sr. PG Tommy McCarthy started as a freshman when Siyani Chambers was hurt. He now looks to be one of the very last guys on their bench.
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Post by crosspride on Nov 28, 2018 23:35:14 GMT -5
Benzan on the back side for each dunk Without benzan they might lose by 30. Showed, by far, the most energy and fueled the late run. Not sure your issue with him but he’s not in the top 50 reasons why we lost tonight.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 28, 2018 23:51:29 GMT -5
A couple observations: Harvard has size and length at the guard position and when we play teams with size at the guard position it is match up problem for us. IMO it makes it difficult to get the ball into JF and our offense is only effective when the ball runs through him. We won't see guards with that size in the PL so I am not that concerned.
With the exception of the press we used to get back into the game I did not see us pressure/trap Harvard's guards as they brought the ball up the court and then settle into our match-up zone. I have seen this strategy in every game I have seen - I assume to shorten the shot clock for the opposition. I am curious why we didn't employ this strategy tonight. CBC was clearly trying to get more players into tonight's game. My impression was he was going to lengthen the bench regardless of the deficit. Not that he didn't care about winning, but it seemed to me getting other players some time was a priority . The two times we showed the 1-3-1 zone resulted into two easy dunks for Harvard - a disaster. Harvard sure does have some very tall guards, and the team overall (all 5 positions) ranks #54 in height in D-1. Patriot League opponents don't have many short guards. Here are the listed heights for the two guards KenPom lists as getting the most minutes at PG &SG season to date Boston U: 6-5 & 6-3 American U: 6-2 & 6-4 Bucknell: 6-3 & 6-2 Loyola: 6-0 & 6-4 Lafayette: 6-1 & 6-3 Lehigh: 6-2 & 6-1 Colgate: 6-0 & 6-2 Army: 6-0 & 6-1 Navy: 6-0 & 6-1 So, it would be safe to say that HC will very often have a significant height disadvantage (maybe offset by a quickness advantage to a degree?) in the backcourt.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 29, 2018 4:44:09 GMT -5
Most of Baker's defensive work was done away from the basket. Not sure any PL teams have a kid like that. He's really improved from last year.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 29, 2018 4:49:15 GMT -5
So mad about this loss. But they showed no care at all. Missed free throws, missed layups, when they caused turnovers, came up with nothing for points. Frustrating, when the back door cut doesn't work the offense is lost. Why down 7 have Neigo still in the game to miss a three and two free throws. Kyle Copland dosen't really belong along with Matt Zignorski, not fit for this level. Benzan played not bad, but why not play some rookies to see what you have. Unless they are really not capable. C'mon, they lose and they don't care?
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Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 29, 2018 6:44:54 GMT -5
So, it would be safe to say that HC will very often have a significant height disadvantage (maybe offset by a quickness advantage to a degree?) in the backcourt. I'd be concerned about size and strength match-ups in the front court too, especially with Lehigh and Colgate.
The defensive rebounding continues to be a major concern with this team, and (as I've noted elsewhere) has been a problem for virtually all of Carmody's teams since he left Princeton. After last night's abysmal performance on the boards, Holy Cross now ranks 299th in DR%, worst among all PL teams. This is not a result, btw, of a few mis-matched games - in fact, by far the best performance of the year was against Michigan, when HC snared 80% of the available rebounds at the defensive end. Against everybody else, it's been a problem.
Indifference to rebounding at the offensive end can be a successful strategic choice. Poor rebounding at the defensive end is not a strategy - it is a major deficiency. For those interested in correlations, look at the KenPoms, year by year, of the worst defensive rebounding teams in the country. It ain't a pretty picture.
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Post by sader81 on Nov 29, 2018 7:15:15 GMT -5
Attended last night’s game - I’ve been to every game ( I’ve got to get a life!). The boys threw up a bit of a stinker last night. They just didn’t play well, probably the worst game of the year. Sloppy passing, shots weren’t dropping, they looked a bit lethargic most of the night. Take nothing away from Harvard, they’re good! To beat them, HC would have to play very well - they didn’t! Every time the boys would get back in the game, Harvard would hit a big 3. The good news is the boys didn’t quit, they played through it and made a nice run near the end - just too little, too late. I had a very optimistic prediction of 23 wins this year, with Harvard being a loss. Still a road game against a very good team, you have to learn from it, get better and move on. So it’s not the end of the world, one road loss to a good team does not a season make. They are better than they showed last night and have around 25 more games to prove it.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 29, 2018 7:16:50 GMT -5
Amaker has really stocked the shelves the last few years. Case in point: Sr. PG Tommy McCarthy started as a freshman when Siyani Chambers was hurt. He now looks to be one of the very last guys on their bench. Yes and the top two players from last year (starting guard last year Bryce Aiken [JR] who was Ivy ROY as a frosh and Ivy POY forward Seth Towns [JR] ) have been out injured all season thus far.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 29, 2018 8:04:40 GMT -5
Perfect summation of the game by 81 and the season so far. Shots didn't drop, poor passing but never quit as evidenced by the late surge cutting the lead from 17 to 7 but fell short. Biggest differential was in rebounding - 21 for Crusaders, 40 for Harvard, resulting in 0, count 'em, zero, second chance points for Holy Cross and 13 for Harvard. We had more steals (10 to 7); fewer turnovers (14 to 19); almost identical FT shooting (8 of 13 to 8 of 14); more assists (16 to 14); shockingly more 3 pointers made (10 of 23 to 9 of 20). Harvard was a much taller team with long arms and took advantage. Oh, Harvard had 42 bench points to 12 for Holy Cross. And I don't know why you guys complain about Harvard, they only had 20 players on their roster. I wasn't as optimistic as 81 in my pre-season picks, expecting us to go 6-7 in out of conference. I expected a Harvard win [edit: "loss"] pre-season but the only game where results differed from my prediction was our win over Albany. So, we are 1 game up on my expectations. The disappointment from this loss comes from all the arrows pointing to a much improved Crusader team that could have notched the 5th win in a row over the johnnies. On another day, the results might have been different. Not sure, if at all, the 8 day lay-off from games affected play but our guys were not playing sharp for much of the game. Let's see how the guys play Saturday. Kudos to 81 for attending every game! Iggy (R.I.P.) would be proud of you.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 29, 2018 8:36:34 GMT -5
A couple observations: Harvard has size and length at the guard position and when we play teams with size at the guard position it is match up problem for us. IMO it makes it difficult to get the ball into JF and our offense is only effective when the ball runs through him. We won't see guards with that size in the PL so I am not that concerned.
With the exception of the press we used to get back into the game I did not see us pressure/trap Harvard's guards as they brought the ball up the court and then settle into our match-up zone. I have seen this strategy in every game I have seen - I assume to shorten the shot clock for the opposition. I am curious why we didn't employ this strategy tonight. CBC was clearly trying to get more players into tonight's game. My impression was he was going to lengthen the bench regardless of the deficit. Not that he didn't care about winning, but it seemed to me getting other players some time was a priority . The two times we showed the 1-3-1 zone resulted into two easy dunks for Harvard - a disaster. Harvard sure does have some very tall guards, and the team overall (all 5 positions) ranks #54 in height in D-1. Patriot League opponents don't have many short guards. Here are the listed heights for the two guards KenPom lists as getting the most minutes at PG &SG season to date Boston U: 6-5 & 6-3 American U: 6-2 & 6-4 Bucknell: 6-3 & 6-2 Loyola: 6-0 & 6-4 Lafayette: 6-1 & 6-3 Lehigh: 6-2 & 6-1 Colgate: 6-0 & 6-2 Army: 6-0 & 6-1 Navy: 6-0 & 6-1 So, it would be safe to say that HC will very often have a significant height disadvantage (maybe offset by a quickness advantage to a degree?) in the backcourt. Harvard had 6'5", 6'5", 6'7", 6'2" and 6'3" at guard. That seems to indicate they had three guards as tall or taller than the tallest player you list. IIHO the original point was correct...there are no PL teams with guards with that sort of height.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 29, 2018 8:43:21 GMT -5
Three games in March.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 29, 2018 8:58:27 GMT -5
So, it would be safe to say that HC will very often have a significant height disadvantage (maybe offset by a quickness advantage to a degree?) in the backcourt. I'd be concerned about size and strength match-ups in the front court too, especially with Lehigh and Colgate.
The defensive rebounding continues to be a major concern with this team, and (as I've noted elsewhere) has been a problem for virtually all of Carmody's teams since he left Princeton. After last night's abysmal performance on the boards, Holy Cross now ranks 299th in DR%, worst among all PL teams. This is not a result, btw, of a few mis-matched games - in fact, by far the best performance of the year was against Michigan, when HC snared 80% of the available rebounds at the defensive end. Against everybody else, it's been a problem.
Indifference to rebounding at the offensive end can be a successful strategic choice. Poor rebounding at the defensive end is not a strategy - it is a major deficiency. For those interested in correlations, look at the KenPoms, year by year, of the worst defensive rebounding teams in the country. It ain't a pretty picture.
Floyd has to do an awful lot underneath, and, no knock on him, last night he didn't, rebounding or defensively. Faw can't guard anyone without fouling so his minutes are usually limited. Niego shouldn't be criticized very much, he was in there and contributed when they came back but he's got his limitations too...when it got cut to 7 perhaps his shelf life had expired for the day. Both he and Faw don't seem to be strong rebounders. Grandison is very valuable but not much of a frontcourt guy. No one else ready to contribute it would appear. In reply to efg72, Pat drives me nuts too; but again, when a run was needed to get back in the game, he stepped up big time.
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Post by classof83 on Nov 29, 2018 9:15:36 GMT -5
Harvard sure does have some very tall guards, and the team overall (all 5 positions) ranks #54 in height in D-1. Patriot League opponents don't have many short guards. Here are the listed heights for the two guards KenPom lists as getting the most minutes at PG &SG season to date Boston U: 6-5 & 6-3 American U: 6-2 & 6-4 Bucknell: 6-3 & 6-2 Loyola: 6-0 & 6-4 Lafayette: 6-1 & 6-3 Lehigh: 6-2 & 6-1 Colgate: 6-0 & 6-2 Army: 6-0 & 6-1 Navy: 6-0 & 6-1 So, it would be safe to say that HC will very often have a significant height disadvantage (maybe offset by a quickness advantage to a degree?) in the backcourt. Harvard had 6'5", 6'5", 6'7", 6'2" and 6'3" at guard. That seems to indicate they had three guards as tall or taller than the tallest player you list. IIHO the original point was correct...there are no PL teams with guards with that sort of height. It isn't just the height - it is the girth as well. Kirkwood is 6'7" 215 lbs Bassey 6'5" 215 lbs - had 4 offensive rebounds last night - ugh Johnson 6' 5" 200 lbs It probably didn't help that Butler got hurt and had limited minutes in the second half. As a result, we saw more of Benzan and Green - Benzan (5'11" 175) and Green (5"10" 175). When CBC put in Copeland HC got back in the game with the press- Copeland is 6' 4". I would not be surprised to see Copeland play more as we go forward. I agree our rebounding is a deficiency and not a strategy - IIRC - it didn't help that Faw had three fouls in the first half - CBC didn't pull him right away after the second - this was a mistake
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 29, 2018 10:36:52 GMT -5
I don't buy the notion that this was just an "off game" for HC, and everything is just fine and dandy.
The season can be broken down into three pretty distinct sections right now: 1) 3 wins vs bad- teams -Sacred Heart, Siena, and Albany are a combined 5-13 (.278) against D1 teams -Their defenses are ranked 345, 328, 249 -Their five wins have come against teams with an average rank of 250, with the highest ranked team at 221
2) 1 good win vs Stony Brook -Stony Brook (#177) is looking like a nice win, as they are 5-1 against D1 teams and have defeated #76 South Carolina & #125 URI
3) 3 losses vs good+ teams -Michigan is looking like a damn good team and blew us out in the 2nd half -There were some flashes against #64 Providence & #83 Harvard, but when they turned up the heat, we had no answers. We did keep the scores respectable after the foot came off the gas as the leads stretched to the mid-teens, but as dadominate put it, "nobody cares about close losses."
So through 7 games, we essentially have one good win, and did not do much against the Top 100 teams on the schedule to provide evidence that the way we play against teams ranked in the 250-350 range will translate against more talented teams. Also, aside from Grandison & Green (who have clearly separated themselves) and Niego's first half vs Michigan, the play from the "outstanding" Sophomore class has been pretty abysmal against the Top 100 teams. Players 3-6 in that class have yet to show that they can ramp things up when the talent, size, and athleticism of the opposition increases.
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