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Jan 11, 2019 20:48:10 GMT -5
Post by hchoops on Jan 11, 2019 20:48:10 GMT -5
Gordon Hamilton
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Jan 11, 2019 20:58:20 GMT -5
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Post by dadominate on Jan 11, 2019 20:58:20 GMT -5
RIP. a great player and an even greater person.
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Jan 11, 2019 21:54:19 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 21:54:19 GMT -5
On the Lehigh Game Day thread the discussion turned to the play of Pat Benzan and I cited a few of his (in my opinion) positive attributes. One of them was that he was the only player on the team who has more steals this year than turnovers. I don't think that's an official statistic but that sort of thing never stops me from taking it further. If you go back to the 1999-2000 year I found only three players who, in their careers, have had more steals than turnovers. They are: 1) 2) 3) I've left this blank in case anyone wants to guess (without just looking it up). If there's no interest I'll just fill in the names. Interesting. Top choice: Kevin Hamilton Others: RJ Evans Greg Kinsey Wow-- you came close on two of them. Kevin Hamilton was my #1 guess and I--and you--were wrong. KHam came close with 292 steals and 305 turnovers. RJ Evans did not come close. He was great at steals for a couple of years as I recall but turned the ball over more: 130 steals and 249 turnovers Greg Kinsey--would not have guessed him but he just missed: 121 steals and 124 turnovers
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Jan 11, 2019 21:55:02 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 21:55:02 GMT -5
Pretty confident that Pat Doherty is one of them. Pat Doherty had 129 steals but 197 turnovers
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Jan 11, 2019 21:57:15 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 21:57:15 GMT -5
Gordon Hamiltion did not play post 2000 but he did come close with 143 steals to 148 turnovers
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Jan 11, 2019 21:59:25 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 21:59:25 GMT -5
Okay hints-- One was a point guard, the second played some great defense in a memorable series of games, and the third is still paying. I apologize if the way I worded the question made you think it was limited to graduates
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Jan 11, 2019 22:00:05 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 22:00:05 GMT -5
If steals were kept then, Ron Perry Jr I f stats were kept then I have zero doubt that you'd be correct
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 22:02:12 GMT -5
In fact. there is a fourth player--I had some sloppy handwriting as I was scribbling down numbers and missed him. He has not been guessed yet. What a great ballplayer he was!
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Jan 11, 2019 22:11:32 GMT -5
Post by sader1970 on Jan 11, 2019 22:11:32 GMT -5
Keith Simmons? Tory Thomas?
Actually, I didn't even want to guess but wanted to give you kudos for the whole thought process because perhaps 7+ years ago I suggested on the board that rather than assist/turnover ratio, a better ratio would be steals/turnover ratio. My thinking is that the latter is more comparing an apple to an apple - taking the ball from an opponent vs. losing the ball to an opponent.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 11, 2019 22:12:23 GMT -5
Eric Green?
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Jan 11, 2019 22:21:19 GMT -5
Post by hchoops on Jan 11, 2019 22:21:19 GMT -5
Steals are not nearly as important a stat as assists. Some players accumulate steals by taking unnecessary chances, so if they do not succeed, they leave their team at a disadvantage.
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Jan 11, 2019 22:50:32 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 11, 2019 22:50:32 GMT -5
Steals are not nearly as important a stat as assists. Some players accumulate steals by taking unnecessary chances, so if they do not succeed, they leave their team at a disadvantage. And some assists are accumulated by passing to a guy on the perimeter who forces, but makes a low percentage shot. Over the course of a career, a high volume of steals indicates a player who was consistently active on defense. I had never seen the steal-to-turnover combination before, but it’s a great juxtaposition of possessions gained versus possessions lost.
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Jan 11, 2019 22:50:37 GMT -5
Post by CHC8485 on Jan 11, 2019 22:50:37 GMT -5
Jave Meade
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Post by hchoops on Jan 11, 2019 22:53:25 GMT -5
Deflections are a better indication of defensive prowess than steals.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 11, 2019 22:54:01 GMT -5
That certainly is an informed opinion. Assists, by definition, means your team scored while a steal counts no more than any other turnover. Maybe a score results, maybe it doesn't.
That said, I still think there is value to know how often a player was able to get the ball from an opponent compared to how often he has given it the opponent.
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Jan 11, 2019 22:55:57 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 22:55:57 GMT -5
Keith Simmons? Tory Thomas? Actually, I didn't even want to guess but wanted to give you kudos for the whole thought process because perhaps 7+ years ago I suggested on the board that rather than assist/turnover ratio, a better ratio would be steals/turnover ratio. My thinking is that the latter is more comparing an apple to an apple - taking the ball from an opponent vs. losing the ball to an opponent. Keith Simmons is correct--he is the player I had overlooked . Keith had 191 steals and 186 turnovers. The great Torey Thomas came close with 268 steals and 307 turnovers
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Jan 11, 2019 22:57:39 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 22:57:39 GMT -5
Eric is correct with 113 steals to 99 turnovers he is the 21st century leader with a +14. I'll bet my hint was necessary for folks to think of him??
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Jan 11, 2019 22:59:22 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 11, 2019 22:59:22 GMT -5
Deflections are a better indication of defensive prowess than steals. Agreed!
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Jan 11, 2019 22:59:34 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 22:59:34 GMT -5
Jave came close with 246 steals but he had 269 turnovers.. He did accomplish the feat with 60 steals to just 53 turnovers his senior year
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Jan 11, 2019 23:00:32 GMT -5
Post by sader1970 on Jan 11, 2019 23:00:32 GMT -5
OK, so I assume this means a current player, besides Pat Benzan.
Jehyve Floyd?
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Jan 11, 2019 23:00:36 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 23:00:36 GMT -5
So we are missing a point guard and a current Crusader
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Jan 11, 2019 23:02:44 GMT -5
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 11, 2019 23:02:44 GMT -5
OK, so I assume this means a current player, besides Pat Benzan. Jehyve Floyd? No--Pat Benzan is the current player. My setup just mentioned that he was positive for this season but, as it turns out, he has more steals than turnovers for his career. Jehyve Floyd does not register a lot of steals (opponents too smart to get near him with the ball?) and has 66 versus 145 turnovers So one player to go-a point guard
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Jan 11, 2019 23:04:20 GMT -5
Post by sader1970 on Jan 11, 2019 23:04:20 GMT -5
Andrew Beinert?
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Jan 11, 2019 23:08:57 GMT -5
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Post by crosspride on Jan 11, 2019 23:08:57 GMT -5
Anthony Thompson? Know he had a lot of steals, not sure about the turnovers.
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Jan 11, 2019 23:09:54 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 11, 2019 23:09:54 GMT -5
Out of the remaining PGs, I’d guess Anthony Thompson.
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