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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 30, 2018 6:05:25 GMT -5
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 30, 2018 6:09:22 GMT -5
Interesting article...but not the best students of logic: “Who doesn’t want to be with the No. 3 school in the country and be considered the team to beat?” said St. John’s defensive lineman Tre Williams, who transferred from a Connecticut prep school in March. “Who doesn’t want to be with the best?”
Does being #3 make you the "best"? That is strange logic indeed.
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Post by alum on Nov 30, 2018 8:43:46 GMT -5
This is nuts.
Mr. Williams, who is mentioned as having transferred to St. John's from a Connecticut prep school, is 6'1 and 308 pounds as a junior. He has offers from everyone.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 30, 2018 9:37:12 GMT -5
I think some states prohibit recruiting by high schools. Here's an extract from the Michigan High School Athletic Association, with the link to the full piece below "In 2007, the United States Supreme Court issued a rare unanimous decision that state high school athletic association rules should prevent and penalize the recruiting of students into high schools because of athletics. Our school has agreed to follow the rules of the Michigan High School Athletic Association (MHSAA) which apply equally to public schools, charter schools and nonpublic schools. A long-standing rule, Undue Influence, involves cooperation and compliance by more than just the athletes and coaching staff. The anti-recruiting rule states that a violation can occur if a person “directly or indirectly associated with a student, a student’s parent or the school” encourages or secures the attendance of a student because of athletics. “Directly or indirectly associated with the school” may include but not be limited to parents of players, booster club members, alumni and representatives of non-school athletic programs. Often it is the non-school environment (AAU or youth sports) where inappropriate recruiting rule violations occur and where vigilance is needed. www.mhsaa.com/portals/0/Documents/AD%20Forms/antirecruit.pdf
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 30, 2018 9:53:26 GMT -5
I have been told that the great NJ Catholic HS football programs - Bergen Catholic, Don Bosco, etc. - competitively recruit heavily within the state to annually produce powerhouse teams. AS A FORMER BC AD, I WILL TAKE A SHOT AT THIS. I have always wondered exactly what is done to recruit the youngster? How do the schools know whom to recruit? Do the schools employ scouts or receive info from rec league coaches? Are the rec league coaches paid? Does recruiting merely involve a visit to a prospect from a kindly coach? Is it name recognition of the school? Name recognition of the coach?A visit to the school? It can't be merely all of the above as there has to be one or two factors that are more important in attracting a youngster. Does recruitment involve any more nefarious tactics - money under the table? Admission of non- academically qualified students with special classes not up to the standards of the rest of the school? Special tutoring for the players not available;e to the non-athlete? NO SCOUTS ARE EMPLOYED. COACHES DO LET STUDENTS KNOW IF THE SCHOOL IS INTERESTED. THE BEST PLAYERS ARE WIDELY KNOWN. THE NAME OF THE COACH DOES HELP KARCICH AT SJR OR TOLL AT DBP FOR TWO EXAMPLES. THE SUCCESS OF A PROGRAM IS ANOTHER FACTOR. THERE ARE NO SCHOLARSHIPS (OR MONEY UNDER THE TABLE) AT BC. DB HAS BEEN FOUND TO OFFER "INCENTIVES" IN PAST YEARS IN TERMS OF REDUCED TUITION. DIOCESAN SCHOOL HAVE LOWER TUITION THAN PRIVATE SCHOOLS SUCH AS DB OR BC. NON-ACADEMCALLY QUALIFIED STUDENTS DO NOT GET ADMITTED TO BC OR DB...TOO MUCH DEMAND BY QUALIFIED STUDENTS. I HAVE NO DIRECT CONTACT WITH REC LEAGUE COACHES, BUT I DO BELIEVE THEY ARE VOLUNTEERS. ALL OF THE SCHOOLS HAVE OPEN HOUSE DAYS AND ENCOURAGE VISITS BY PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS. Is scholarship money given which is not available to the non- athlete? Are the recruits admitted ahead of other more academically qualified non-athletes? Where does the money come from to support recruitment? Are the programs financially self sustaining? Is money taken from academics to support football? Are these schools reliant on the name recognition that comes with great football teams in order for the schools to stay afloat? NO ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS ARE GIVEN. NO MONEY COMES FROM ACADEMICS TO SUPPORT ANY SPORTS. I do admire the high quality competition among these schools but I did have these questions after being told that I was naive if I didn't realize that these schools heavily recruit football players with all that is implied with big time recruitment. LoveHC BC ONCE HELD A CATHOLIC GRAMMAR SCHOOL TOURNAMENT EACH YEAR TO GET STUDENTS SOMEE XPOSURE TO THE SCO. THAT WAS STOPED YEARS AGO...NO NEEED TO DO IT. PS: PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS RECRUIT AS WELL...FROM PRIVATE/PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS AND EVEN FROM OTHER PUBLIC SCHOOLS. ONE HIGH SCHOOL IN BERGEN COUNTY, NJ GOT TWO WRESTLERS TO TRANSFER FROM A PAROCHIAL SCHOOL TO THEIR PROGRAM AND HELPED THE FAMILIES TO RENT AN APARTMENT IN THE TOWN SO THE BOYS COULD ESTABLISH RESIDENCY.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 30, 2018 10:12:00 GMT -5
rgs as a former administrator of Bergen, do you know the answer to any of mm67's questions ?. Others do similar practices does not seem sufficient
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 30, 2018 10:16:27 GMT -5
rgs as a former administrator of Bergen, do you know the answer to any of mm67's questions ?. Others do similar practices does not seem sufficient You may want to look at the answers I already posted. Is there anything I missed?
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Post by hchoops on Nov 30, 2018 10:22:10 GMT -5
sorry-i missed it could things like scholarships have changed since you were there?
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 30, 2018 10:26:51 GMT -5
There is one sort of scholarship at BC. If a student's parent dies (the breadwinner), the parents clubs pay that student's tuition for the balance of his time at BC. Might outsiders help with tuition? I know others think that is the case, but I do not know of any such cases. The issue is complicated when kids tell their friends that they are getting a scholarship to play at BC. They have done that for years. I never found a case where it was true.
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Post by rickii on Nov 30, 2018 11:51:15 GMT -5
I have been told that the great NJ Catholic HS football programs - Bergen Catholic, Don Bosco, etc. - competitively recruit heavily within the state to annually produce powerhouse teams. AS A FORMER BC AD, I WILL TAKE A SHOT AT THIS. I have always wondered exactly what is done to recruit the youngster? How do the schools know whom to recruit? Do the schools employ scouts or receive info from rec league coaches? Are the rec league coaches paid? Does recruiting merely involve a visit to a prospect from a kindly coach? Is it name recognition of the school? Name recognition of the coach?A visit to the school? It can't be merely all of the above as there has to be one or two factors that are more important in attracting a youngster. Does recruitment involve any more nefarious tactics - money under the table? Admission of non- academically qualified students with special classes not up to the standards of the rest of the school? Special tutoring for the players not available;e to the non-athlete? NO SCOUTS ARE EMPLOYED. COACHES DO LET STUDENTS KNOW IF THE SCHOOL IS INTERESTED. THE BEST PLAYERS ARE WIDELY KNOWN. THE NAME OF THE COACH DOES HELP KARCICH AT SJR OR TOLL AT DBP FOR TWO EXAMPLES. THE SUCCESS OF A PROGRAM IS ANOTHER FACTOR. THERE ARE NO SCHOLARSHIPS (OR MONEY UNDER THE TABLE) AT BC. DB HAS BEEN FOUND TO OFFER "INCENTIVES" IN PAST YEARS IN TERMS OF REDUCED TUITION. DIOCESAN SCHOOL HAVE LOWER TUITION THAN PRIVATE SCHOOLS SUCH AS DB OR BC. NON-ACADEMCALLY QUALIFIED STUDENTS DO NOT GET ADMITTED TO BC OR DB...TOO MUCH DEMAND BY QUALIFIED STUDENTS. I HAVE NO DIRECT CONTACT WITH REC LEAGUE COACHES, BUT I DO BELIEVE THEY ARE VOLUNTEERS. ALL OF THE SCHOOLS HAVE OPEN HOUSE DAYS AND ENCOURAGE VISITS BY PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS. Is scholarship money given which is not available to the non- athlete? Are the recruits admitted ahead of other more academically qualified non-athletes? Where does the money come from to support recruitment? Are the programs financially self sustaining? Is money taken from academics to support football? Are these schools reliant on the name recognition that comes with great football teams in order for the schools to stay afloat? NO ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS ARE GIVEN. NO MONEY COMES FROM ACADEMICS TO SUPPORT ANY SPORTS. I do admire the high quality competition among these schools but I did have these questions after being told that I was naive if I didn't realize that these schools heavily recruit football players with all that is implied with big time recruitment. LoveHC BC ONCE HELD A CATHOLIC GRAMMAR SCHOOL TOURNAMENT EACH YEAR TO GET STUDENTS SOMEE XPOSURE TO THE SCO. THAT WAS STOPED YEARS AGO...NO NEEED TO DO IT. PS: PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS RECRUIT AS WELL...FROM PRIVATE/PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS AND EVEN FROM OTHER PUBLIC SCHOOLS. ONE HIGH SCHOOL IN BERGEN COUNTY, NJ GOT TWO WRESTLERS TO TRANSFER FROM A PAROCHIAL SCHOOL TO THEIR PROGRAM AND HELPED THE FAMILIES TO RENT AN APARTMENT IN THE TOWN SO THE BOYS COULD ESTABLISH RESIDENCY. AIR, this whole topic was extensively discussed on the old board a few years ago.
As some may recall, it was noted in some article that the initial uproar with major Catholic high schools in NJ football recruiting were traced back to St Josephs in Montvale 'recruiting' a fantastic RB from NY State named Cooper Rego. Can't recall the year but I believe he wound up going to Notre Dame. From that point forward till nowadays, schools like Bergen Catholic, Don Bosco and St. Peters in Jersey City joined St Josephs in savagely raiding each other as well as public schools for star football athletes and embarked on scheduling 'away' games in places like Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Nevada and California....on charter jets !
rgs - I remember a more recent article on line that stated Don Bosco has a booster club with an approx $240,000 balance annually, an exclusive radio broadcast outlet for football games and a year-round weight training program at a facility owned by a major booster. Can you comment ?
As a sidebar, 35 years ago I had a nephew on the football team at Servite Academy in Orange County, California. Went to a home regular season night game to see him play....was astounded to see 13-14,000 people in attendance ! That was my first exposure/revelation to normal big-time prep/high school football in states like California, Ohio, Texas and Florida.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 30, 2018 13:45:52 GMT -5
PS: PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS RECRUIT AS WELL...FROM PRIVATE/PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS AND EVEN FROM OTHER PUBLIC SCHOOLS. ONE HIGH SCHOOL IN BERGEN COUNTY, NJ GOT TWO WRESTLERS TO TRANSFER FROM A PAROCHIAL SCHOOL TO THEIR PROGRAM AND HELPED THE FAMILIES TO RENT AN APARTMENT IN THE TOWN SO THE BOYS COULD ESTABLISH RESIDENCY. AIR, this whole topic was extensively discussed on the old board a few years ago.
As some may recall, it was noted in some article that the initial uproar with major Catholic high schools in NJ football recruiting were traced back to St Josephs in Montvale 'recruiting' a fantastic RB from NY State named Cooper Rego. Can't recall the year but I believe he wound up going to Notre Dame. From that point forward till nowadays, schools like Bergen Catholic, Don Bosco and St. Peters in Jersey City joined St Josephs in savagely raiding each other as well as public schools for star football athletes and embarked on scheduling 'away' games in places like Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Nevada and California....on charter jets !
rgs - I remember a more recent article on line that stated Don Bosco has a booster club with an approx $240,000 balance annually, an exclusive radio broadcast outlet for football games and a year-round weight training program at a facility owned by a major booster. Can you comment ?
As a sidebar, 35 years ago I had a nephew on the football team at Servite Academy in Orange County, California. Went to a home regular season night game to see him play....was astounded to see 13-14,000 people in attendance ! That was my first exposure/revelation to normal big-time prep/high school football in states like California, Ohio, Texas and Florida.
Those long trips came about because public schools did all that they could to not play any parochial schools and excluded them from their leagues. An outside promoter booked games among some of the top teams nationwide and the parochial schols were able to join in on that. A court case finally got the schools into leagues (citing religious discrimination), but the league then went to divisions and put all of the parochial together in "separate but equal" divisions by themselves. No parochial schools have tv or radio broadcasts of their own. They do stream games on computer (and next year the Big North will do the same for all teams - private and public), much like the PL. Both Bergen and Bosco have weight rooms that are open year round. Bosco has done a major expansion of their campus over the last two years (academic and athletic facilities) and Bergen is starting construction of "Crusader Stadium" and raising funds among alumni. All of the schools also have lights for Friday night games (unlike HC). Some athletes may go to local health clubs, like the one adjacent to the DB Campus) but that is on their own. The cost is for faulty and trainers to staff that weight room. Most crowds do not approach that level in Bergen County due to the fact that there are 52 high schools in a county made up of small towns and that does limit crowd size.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 30, 2018 14:51:05 GMT -5
There used to be a rule that had a minimum number of games against NJ opponents to qualify for the state tournament. That was brutal since NJ publics would not schedule the parochials. The state finally backed off a bit so out of state games became possible. Playing those marquis match-ups get funding from promoters (and they are typically home and home). There is almost no expanse for the team...only for parents and fans who travel to see away games.
Some public schools are now starting to schedule high profile games out of state. Football is taking on a whole new persona in North Jersey. (BTW, included in Crusader Stadium is a performing arts center/dance studio. St Joes has made a splash with its music and theater program and the other parochials feel it is necessary to follow suit to compete for students. (That is for al students. After all, without a full student body, probably none of the schools can afford their athletic programs.
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Post by richh on Nov 30, 2018 16:00:52 GMT -5
I coached HS football in NJ back in the 70s. Still talk to a lot of my kids from back then. Recruiting in HS makes the rounds public, prep and parochial. Still does. The Catholic League in NJ is one of the very toughest in the nation. Cant speak to all parochial schools but I am unaware of any that give football scholarships. A good number do offer financial assistance. for needy students. I coached both in public and parochial schools. Back the there was a great deal of player stealing by both sides. I do know our AD would not schedule many parochial programs in North Jersey.The warfare has abated but the recruiting and stealing continues to an extent.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 30, 2018 16:05:18 GMT -5
rich, I also coached in both parochial and public schools. One thing that used to be necessary for eligibility of a transfer was that the school the student was leaving had to sign a letter that they did not believe the student had been recruited. I and my colleagues always signed off...even for one All-County athlete clearly recruited by the public school in his town. If he wanted to leave to play with his home town friends for his senior year, we had no desire to "punish" him for that.
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Post by nhteamer on Nov 30, 2018 16:16:13 GMT -5
I have been told that the great NJ Catholic HS football programs - Bergen Catholic, Don Bosco, etc. - competitively recruit heavily within the state to annually produce powerhouse teams. I have always wondered exactly what is done to recruit the youngster? How do the schools know whom to recruit? Do the schools employ scouts or receive info from rec league coaches? Are the rec league coaches paid? Does recruiting merely involve a visit to a prospect from a kindly coach? Is it name recognition of the school? Name recognition of the coach?A visit to the school? It can't be merely all of the above as there has to be one or two factors that are more important in attracting a youngster. Does recruitment involve any more nefarious tactics - money under the table? Admission of non- academically qualified students with special classes not up to the standards of the rest of the school? Special tutoring for the players not available;e to the non-athlete? Is scholarship money given which is not available to the non- athlete? Are the recruits admitted ahead of other more academically qualified non-athletes? Where does the money come from to support recruitment? Are the programs financially self sustaining? Is money taken from academics to support football? Are these schools reliant on the name recognition that comes with great football teams in order for the schools to stay afloat? I do admire the high quality competition among these schools but I did have these questions after being told that I was naive if I didn't realize that these schools heavily recruit football players with all that is implied with big time recruitment. LoveHC start with the sons of NYFootball Giants players
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 30, 2018 16:21:27 GMT -5
AIR, this whole topic was extensively discussed on the old board a few years ago.
As some may recall, it was noted in some article that the initial uproar with major Catholic high schools in NJ football recruiting were traced back to St Josephs in Montvale 'recruiting' a fantastic RB from NY State named Cooper Rego. Can't recall the year but I believe he wound up going to Notre Dame. From that point forward till nowadays, schools like Bergen Catholic, Don Bosco and St. Peters in Jersey City joined St Josephs in savagely raiding each other as well as public schools for star football athletes and embarked on scheduling 'away' games in places like Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Nevada and California....on charter jets !
rgs - I remember a more recent article on line that stated Don Bosco has a booster club with an approx $240,000 balance annually, an exclusive radio broadcast outlet for football games and a year-round weight training program at a facility owned by a major booster. Can you comment ?
As a sidebar, 35 years ago I had a nephew on the football team at Servite Academy in Orange County, California. Went to a home regular season night game to see him play....was astounded to see 13-14,000 people in attendance ! That was my first exposure/revelation to normal big-time prep/high school football in states like California, Ohio, Texas and Florida.
Rego went to West Virginia as RB-scored 12 touchdowns there, although he was stuck behind Avon Cobourne who ran for 5,000+ yards and 43 TD's
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