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Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 3, 2018 19:42:15 GMT -5
The top freshmen around the conference, through games of December 2nd. Limited to top 10 players, based on total minutes. Minimum 100 minutes. Listed in order of minutes per game, broken into two groups. Per game averages for points, assists, rebounds (minimum 2.0 for all categories) - leaders in bold - and RoW award(s). Additions/corrections, please.
Tucker Richardson (COL), 6-5 G 31.1m, 6.1p, 4.7r, 2.4a John Carter, Jr. (NAV), 6-4 G 24.3m, 8.1p, 5.7r RoW Josh Caldwell (ARM), 6-2 G 21.2m, 4.9p, 4.6r Garrett Pascoe (BU), 6-3 G 19.1m, 2.0p, 2.1a Kenny Jones (LOY), 6-0 G 18.6m, 5.4p
Isaac Suffren (LAF), 6-4 G 17.7m, 5.7p, 3.0r Nic Lynch (LEH), 6-10 C 17.6m, 6.9p, 4.7r RoW Fletcher Tynen (BU), 6-7 G 17.0m, 4.7p, 2.4r Aaron Duhart (ARM), 6-0 G 15.9m, 5.3p, 2.2a Jack Hemphill (BU), 6-9 F 15.2m, 6.6p, 3.3r RoW
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Post by purplepig on Dec 3, 2018 20:36:45 GMT -5
Lynch is going to be a stalwart for Lehigh. He’s not the usual tall skinny PL project. Suffren isn’t a typical Laffy guard. Overall last year’s freshmen may have been better.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Dec 31, 2018 15:04:10 GMT -5
The top freshmen around the conference, through games of December 30th. Limited to top 10 players, based on total minutes. Minimum,175 minutes. Listed in order of minutes per game, broken into two groups. Per game averages for points, assists, rebounds (minimum 2.0 for all categories) - leaders in bold - and RoW award(s). Additions/corrections, please.
Tucker Richardson (COL), 6-5 G 31.2m, 6.3p, 4.5r, 2.3a RoW John Carter, Jr. (NAV), 6-4 G 24.8m, 8.2p, 5.9r RoW(2) Josh Caldwell (ARM), 6-2 G 19.8m, 4.5p, 4.0r Garrett Pascoe (BU), 6-3 G 19.3m, 2.3p, 2.3a Isaac Suffren (LAF), 6-4 G 18.8m, 6.4p, 3.4r
Kenny Jones (LOY), 6-0 G 18.2m, 5.9p Alex Vilarino (BU), 6-1 G 16.8m, 5.0p, 2.2r Fletcher Tynen (BU), 6-7 G 16.7m, 4.2p, 2.5r Nic Lynch (LEH), 6-10 C 16.2m, 5.3p, 3.8r RoW Jordan Guest (BU), 6-8 F 15.6m, 5.8p, 3.2r RoW
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 31, 2018 15:39:32 GMT -5
Here I've added the players O-Ratings from KenPom
Tucker Richardson (COL), 6-5 G 31.2m, 6.3p, 4.5r, 2.3a RoW…..96.1 O-Rating from Ken Pomeroy John Carter, Jr. (NAV), 6-4 G 24.8m, 8.2p, 5.9r RoW(2)…..93.8 Josh Caldwell (ARM), 6-2 G 19.8m, 4.5p, 4.0r...…...68.2 Garrett Pascoe (BU), 6-3 G 19.3m, 2.3p, 2.3a...…..72.9 Isaac Suffren (LAF), 6-4 G 18.8m, 6.4p, 3.4r...…..88.8
Kenny Jones (LOY), 6-0 G 18.2m, 5.9p...…...121.1 Alex Vilarino (BU), 6-1 G 16.8m, 5.0p, 2.2r......94.4 Fletcher Tynen (BU), 6-7 G 16.7m, 4.2p, 2.5r...….91.8 Nic Lynch (LEH), 6-10 C 16.2m, 5.3p, 3.8r RoW…….81.4 Jordan Guest (BU), 6-8 F 15.6m, 5.8p, 3.2r RoW…….88.7
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Post by bison137 on Jan 1, 2019 10:44:27 GMT -5
One note on the above. Boston U's Alex Vilarino is a sophomore in terms of academics, since he spent first semester last year on Texas Tech's roster as a walk-on and second semester at Boston U. Although he is still has freshman eligibility, he is not eligible for the PL ROY award.
Bucknell has no-one on the above list, but Andrew Funk has been playing well the last month after a poor start. If he gets enough playing time, he could challenge for a spot on the all-rookie team. However Nathan Davis has been using 11 players, plus the starters are all pretty good, so I'm not sure he will get enough minutes. Of course playing on a team where you get a lot of playing time has always been a key to making that team. A number of very good PL players were not all-rookie because they played for strong teams. Looking at the above list, imo two or three of the top five in minutes are not in the top five in terms of ability.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 1, 2019 11:24:26 GMT -5
One note on the above. Boston U's Alex Vilarino is a sophomore in terms of academics, since he spent first semester last year on Texas Tech's roster as a walk-on and second semester at Boston U. Although he is still has freshman eligibility, he is not eligible for the PL ROY award. Bucknell has no-one on the above list, but Andrew Funk has been playing well the last month after a poor start. If he gets enough playing time, he could challenge for a spot on the all-rookie team. However Nathan Davis has been using 11 players, plus the starters are all pretty good, so I'm not sure he will get enough minutes. Of course playing on a team where you get a lot of playing time has always been a key to making that team. A number of very good PL players were not all-rookie because they played for strong teams. Looking at the above list, imo two or three of the top five in minutes are not in the top five in terms of ability. Yes-- looks like a few of these players are getting playing time because their teams have real roster problems. Caldwell at Army is an example, shooting .208 on 3's, .326 on 2's, and .364 from the line and committing a lot of fouls, as many freshmen do. I think BU fans would admit that Pascoe has struggled as well.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 1, 2019 11:29:15 GMT -5
The criticisms of the list are legitimate. My intention is only to show who's getting minutes, so the phrase "top freshmen" is probably misleading.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 1, 2019 11:56:14 GMT -5
The criticisms of the list are legitimate. My intention is only to show who's getting minutes, so the phrase "top freshmen" is probably misleading. To be clear-- no one is criticizing your work on this--it's great to see what freshmen are getting the playing time. It will also be good to see what freshmen begin to earn more time and then make this ongoing list. I really appreciate the work on this.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 1, 2019 14:11:01 GMT -5
The criticisms of the list are legitimate. My intention is only to show who's getting minutes, so the phrase "top freshmen" is probably misleading. To be clear-- no one is criticizing your work on this--it's great to see what freshmen are getting the playing time. It will also be good to see what freshmen begin to earn more time and then make this ongoing list. I really appreciate the work on this. Yes, no criticism at all. Just thought I'd add a few comments to add to the discussion. The work is appreciated.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 1, 2019 18:34:58 GMT -5
Here's a copy of something I posted on the Bucknell board that gives some more info on the various possible candidates for All-Rookie team. (Vilarino is not included since he is not eligible.)
Below are PL frosh who have played at least 25% of available minutes, plus three others of interest. I've shown pct of minutes played for each one, plus effective FG pct, which factors in the value of a 3-pointer; scoring average; and scoring average per 40 minutes. Also a few random comments.
· Tucker Richardson (Colgate) 6-5 SG; 78% of minutes; 48% EFG; 6.3 ppg (8.1 pts per 40 min); plays 30 mpg but only takes 6 shots per game. · John Carter (Navy) 6-4 wing; 62% of minutes; 41% EFG; 8.2 ppg (13.2 per 40); good rebound rate and fouls drawn. · Josh Caldwell (Army) 6-2 wing; 50% of minutes; 32% EFG; 4.5 ppg (9 per 40) good steal rate, nothing else special. · Kenny Jones (Loyola) 6-0 PG; 46% of minutes; 64% EFG; 5.9 ppg (12,9 per 40); having good season but minutes are limited due to returning PG Hart. · Isaac Suffren (Lafayette) 6-4 CG; 46% of minutes; 39% EFG; 6.4 ppg (13.5 pts per 40); starter since Thanksgiving; nice player but 1-13 on threes. · Garrett Pascoe (Boston) 6-3 PG; 44% of minutes; 44% EFG; 2.3 ppg (4.9 per 40); was starter ‘til last 2 games; good assist rate but high turnover. · Nic Lynch (Lehigh) 6-11 center; 41% of minutes; 46% EFG; 5.3 ppg (13 pts per 40 min); strong player, high rebound rate, foul-prone · Fletcher Tynen (Boston) 6-7 SF; 41% of minutes; 41% EFG; 4.2 ppg (10 per 40); low rebound rate. · Jordan Guest (Boston) 6-8 PF; 38% of minutes; 47% EFG; 6 ppg (15 per 40); started last 2 games · Jaylin Andrews (Loyola) 6-4 wing; 37% of minutes; 34% EFG; 3.2 ppg (8.7 per 40); shoots a lot of threes but low pct. · Jack Hemphill (Boston) 6-9 PF; 34% of minutes; 50% EFG; 6 ppg (17 pts per 40 min); minutes have declined a bit since 12/1 · Aaron Duhart (Army) 6-0 PG; 32% of minutes; 39% EFG; 4.5 ppg (13 pts per 40 min); high assist rate · Andrew Funk (Bucknell) 6-4 SG; 32% of minutes; 43% EFG; 3 ppg (9.3 pts per 40 min); 10-20 on threes since 12/1; won ROW award last week. · Jeameril Wilson (Lehigh) 6-7 SF; 31% of minutes; 61% EFG; solid player but minutes are limited due to LU’s many SF’s. · Jonas Harper (Boston) 6-2 SG; 29% of minutes; 47% EFG; 3 ppg (10.3 per 40); high turnover rate · Walter Ellis (Bucknell) 6-5 SF; 26% of minutes; 46% EFG; 2.2 ppg (8.1 per 40); minutes down since exam break · Josiah Strong (Navy) 6-2 SG; 25% of minutes; 48% EFG; 3.4 ppg (13.8 per 40). · Richard Njoku (Navy) 6-7 PF; 19% of minutes; 50% EFG; 1.8 ppg (7.8 pts per 40 min). · Josh Alexander (American) 6-8 PF; 16% of minutes; 67% EFG; 3.7 ppg; high pts and rebs per minute; won ROW in late December · Sean Good (Lafayette) 6-10 center; 16% of minutes; 0.8 ppg (5.1 pts per 40 min); project – was overrated by some LC fans due to bogus ESPN 4 star ranking; may become solid center down the road.
Right now it's tough to predict who will make the All-Rookie team, and a lot will depend on how many minutes some of the good frosh on strong teams will get. Right now, without much thought I'd put the contenders into four buckets, assuming good health of course:
Good chance - Richardson, Lynch, Carter Pretty good chance - Guest, Suffren, Jones Some chance - Caldwell, Hemphill, Pascoe, Funk, Wilson Small chance - Duhart, Tynen, Andrews
Of course some player could suddenly earn a lot more playing time and get into the mix - maybe someone like Josh Alexander. Another issue is whether to select a better player who gets less minutes because he is on a strong team. You may recall that Zach Thomas had played a total of 17 minutes in his first 15 games. When he finally got a chance, he became a regular - playing over 20 mpg and averaging over 10 ppg.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 1, 2019 20:11:18 GMT -5
Wow! Fantastic addition to this dialogue. Thanks
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Post by possum on Jan 2, 2019 7:18:59 GMT -5
Sadly unless you're interested in following the development of the rest of the leagues freshmen this thread has little relevance to HC. Although a little early I fear that we should have stood pat last spring and used our scholarships in the fall when there was a much larger pool of players to pursue.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 2, 2019 7:26:19 GMT -5
Sadly unless you're interested in following the development of the rest of the leagues freshmen this thread has little relevance to HC. Although a little early “A little early “? maybe like a few years
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Post by possum on Jan 2, 2019 10:39:06 GMT -5
Hoops you told me the same thing about the current junior class or what's left of it, how did that work out. As evidenced by the extensive list above its not unusual for freshmen to play. The only school with no representation on this list is you guessed it HC. Don't think you start looking for hidden recruiting gems in late spring, hopefully I'll be proven wrong.
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hc82
Freshman
Posts: 12
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Post by hc82 on Jan 2, 2019 11:08:04 GMT -5
Wasn't Grandison a late gem?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 2, 2019 11:21:30 GMT -5
If we dug back into our archives three years we could probably find some posters criticizing the scholarship given to Jehyve Floyd, but he's turned into a star. I won't predict the same for the current freshmen, but I won't write them off yet. I think you have to wait until junior year to get the true reading on some players, e.g. Floyd, Miller, Champion
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 2, 2019 11:33:20 GMT -5
Frosh on a good team will not get as much playing time. The only way to know their true ability is to watch them at practice. Otherwise it is just a guessing game. The luxury of having talented players ahead of them does give them time to develop and to learn the HC system. It is interesting to see what frosh are doing at other schools, but to draw any conclusions about the talent level of HC frosh based on who is getting pressed into service at other PL schools is, at best, foolish IMHO.
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Post by lou on Jan 2, 2019 11:39:37 GMT -5
Pretty sure most if us here would love to see our freshmen get some PT. Especially since at the moment we have about one or two subs who play. Would be nice to at least get Zig and Cope back into the mix now that league play begins. And hopefully Hargis will surprise in the near future
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Post by possum on Jan 2, 2019 11:56:12 GMT -5
Grandson is a great example of a hidden gem as was Torey Thomas but I don't want to hang my hat on chasing recruits who had few if any offers in late spring. Last season was an exception as due to other circumstances scholarships opened up, just didn't see the need to rush out and use them unless it was for someone like Grandison who could contribute right away. Using this strategy we were mining the leftovers rather than the full talent pool that was available in the fall. By the way RGS, Colgate, Bucknell and Lehigh all good teams have freshmen playing significant minutes. It's not like we don't have minutes available for someone to grab.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 2, 2019 12:15:10 GMT -5
Colgate, Bucknell and Lehigh all good teams have freshmen playing significant minutes. It's not like we don't have minutes available for someone to grab. To put this in perspective, players on the teams you mention generally are seeing far less minutes than if they played for Army, Loyola, Lafayette, or Navy. For example, I think Bucknell's Andrew Funk is one of the league's top five freshmen - but he only plays 13 mpg. Would play 25 mpg for the second division teams. Lehigh had a need at center, so Lynch plays maybe 18 mpg. But they have lots of wings, so Wilson - who looks like a good player - doesn't play that much. Colgate was in a bit different position, since they graduated two guards and a SF - and don't have a deep roster due to players transferring out. Thus they really had no decent SG to step in - which created big minutes for Richardson, who looks like a solid player but likely never a star.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 2, 2019 12:58:04 GMT -5
By the way RGS, Colgate, Bucknell and Lehigh all good teams have freshmen playing significant minutes. It's not like we don't have minutes available for someone to grab. Actually, it is exactly like that, given the system HC uses and the number of players who have been learning it for 2 years or more.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 2, 2019 14:45:50 GMT -5
By the way RGS, Colgate, Bucknell and Lehigh all good teams have freshmen playing significant minutes. It's not like we don't have minutes available for someone to grab. Actually, it is exactly like that, given the system HC uses and the number of players who have been learning it for 2 years or more. By your logic, why did we have many of last year’s freshmen class receive so many minutes?
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 2, 2019 14:56:01 GMT -5
Because we did not have enough experienced players who could get the job done (as in no seniors). I would have thought you would be aware of that. It was the older players who got the first shot, but when they could not get it done, the frosh got time.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 2, 2019 14:58:27 GMT -5
Actually, it is exactly like that, given the system HC uses and the number of players who have been learning it for 2 years or more. By your logic, why did we have many of last year’s freshmen class receive so many minutes? You know the answer-- talent outweighed experience last year
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Post by Tom on Jan 2, 2019 15:30:06 GMT -5
Actually, it is exactly like that, given the system HC uses and the number of players who have been learning it for 2 years or more. By your logic, why did we have many of last year’s freshmen class receive so many minutes? Last year, there were only 5 healthy non-freshmen to start the season. To be blunt, one of those five has pretty much demonstrated he is not a double digit minute guy. (obviously that is always subject to change) HC was forced into heavy freshmen minutes from necessity. That was set to be a rebuilding year from game 1.
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