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Post by matunuck on Dec 29, 2018 20:39:07 GMT -5
Every year ND is way over rated and here we are yet again.
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Post by cmo on Dec 29, 2018 20:47:32 GMT -5
Murray may start his baseball careeer by halftime
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 29, 2018 21:37:42 GMT -5
Every year ND is way over rated and here we are yet again. Every year in every sport, Notre Dame will be overrated.
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Post by thecrossisback on Dec 29, 2018 21:44:30 GMT -5
Holy Cross could have had more than 3 lousy points vs Clemson what a joke.
Only made it because Independent, Undefeated, and big fanbase.
Even Oklahoma is getting killed.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 30, 2018 0:21:32 GMT -5
Alabama's last possession was something to watch--ate up the clock with running plays by backs who broke tackles and carried defenders for yards--just would not go down.
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Post by td128 on Dec 30, 2018 5:30:33 GMT -5
Seems fairly obvious that if we wanted the 4 teams with the best overall personnel that we could annually take the top 3 teams in the SEC along with the top ACC team (for now Clemson) and call it the playoffs.
More than one coach has said that winning the ACC championship in hoop is more difficult than winning the NCAA hoop championship. Would seem that the same could be said for the SEC in football.
Is ND overrated? I don't think so.
The SEC is under rated and for a reason. To do otherwise would be to highlight the reasons why these teams -- and Alabama especially -- are loaded year in and year out. I am not saying Alabama is breaking the rules to the extent that there are rules to break. But what does Alabama and its other top tier teams in the SEC have and use to its advantage?
- A plethora of talent and speed throughout the south making it a recruiting hotbed. Not in debate.
- For all intents and purposes an Open Admissions policy. When was the last time you heard an SEC coach indicate that they lost a kid due to Admissions. Not in debate. - A willingness/desire/practice of actively engaging in over recruiting so that they run kids off/out of the program. Not widely discussed but very real.
The top 4 teams this year in terms of personnel were almost certainly Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, and take your pick among LSU, Ohio State, Florida.
Clemson is special, no doubt about it and all the credit to Dabo Swinney for developing what certainly appears to be a perennial power. That said, I think you can make a compelling case that the SEC Championship is as close to the National Championship game or certainly the semi-final game as anything that will come out of the Bowl Playoffs. But if the selection committee were to go there and consistently include another SEC team if not two would be to send a message to the rest of college football that would cause an uproar.
So, easy to take shots at the Irish but that strikes me as a disservice to Brian Kelly and all those connected to ND. Not easy to win 12 games against major D1 programs. Ask all those other programs including Ohio State how tough it is to show up every weekend and strap it on and get the W.
By the way, remember two years ago when the Clemson Tigers took on the Buckeyes in the semi-final game? Final score, Clemson 31 - Buckeyes 0.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 30, 2018 8:21:22 GMT -5
Can't argue with td128's analysis on why Alabama, Georgia, etc. are so successful right now.
Heck, Alabama has averaged 3 NFL 1st Rounders (and many, many more drafted later on) per year since Saban arrived in 2008. And there might be 5 more NFL 1st Rounders this year. I heard an analyst note that Saban literally has more talent on his team (12 or so future 1st Rounders) than some NFL teams - and the other analysts did not disagree.
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Post by deep Purple on Dec 30, 2018 10:02:31 GMT -5
I'm going with Clemson over Alabama
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 30, 2018 10:14:25 GMT -5
I say Clemson over Alabama at this point. ND is a good team but they were clearly no match for the Tigers. I would say Clemson 45 / Alabama 41.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Dec 30, 2018 10:17:29 GMT -5
Seems fairly obvious that if we wanted the 4 teams with the best overall personnel that we could annually take the top 3 teams in the SEC along with the top ACC team (for now Clemson) and call it the playoffs. More than one coach has said that winning the ACC championship in hoop is more difficult than winning the NCAA hoop championship. Would seem that the same could be said for the SEC in football. Is ND overrated? I don't think so. The SEC is under rated and for a reason. To do otherwise would be to highlight the reasons why these teams -- and Alabama especially -- are loaded year in and year out. I am not saying Alabama is breaking the rules to the extent that there are rules to break. But what does Alabama and its other top tier teams in the SEC have and use to its advantage? - A plethora of talent and speed throughout the south making it a recruiting hotbed. Not in debate. - For all intents and purposes an Open Admissions policy. When was the last time you heard an SEC coach indicate that they lost a kid due to Admissions. Not in debate. - A willingness/desire/practice of actively engaging in over recruiting so that they run kids off/out of the program. Not widely discussed but very real. The top 4 teams this year in terms of personnel were almost certainly Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, and take your pick among LSU, Ohio State, Florida. Clemson is special, no doubt about it and all the credit to Dabo Swinney for developing what certainly appears to be a perennial power. That said, I think you can make a compelling case that the SEC Championship is as close to the National Championship game or certainly the semi-final game as anything that will come out of the Bowl Playoffs. But if the selection committee were to go there and consistently include another SEC team if not two would be to send a message to the rest of college football that would cause an uproar. So, easy to take shots at the Irish but that strikes me as a disservice to Brian Kelly and all those connected to ND. Not easy to win 12 games against major D1 programs. Ask all those other programs including Ohio State how tough it is to show up every weekend and strap it on and get the W. By the way, remember two years ago when the Clemson Tigers took on the Buckeyes in the semi-final game? Final score, Clemson 31 - Buckeyes 0. Not that long ago, SEC and ACC teams refused to play teams with even one black player. How the worm has turned. Great analysis td128; thanks for treating ND in a fair, objective manner.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Dec 30, 2018 10:29:38 GMT -5
Every year ND is way over rated and here we are yet again. Every year in every sport, Notre Dame will be overrated. Women's basketball? Soccer? I agree that ND gets too much press but they produce many excellent teams that are not overrated.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 30, 2018 10:38:43 GMT -5
The tough thing about the playoff only having four teams is that it makes it politically difficult to give one conference multiple bids when other P5 conference champs (or ND) with 0 or 1 loss are going to be left out.
If you asked any objective college football follower the morning of the SEC Championship Game to choose between Georgia or Oklahoma, it wouldn't have been close. But Georgia gets penalized for losing a close game to the "head and shoulders" number one team. The logic in excluding them is, "well they had their shot and lost. Give someone else a chance. The SEC Championship is a de facto play-in."
In an expanded playoff where every conference champ gets in to the field, no one would complain about the SEC getting 4 bids as long as the other P5 conferences had their chance.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 30, 2018 10:54:04 GMT -5
In terms of multiple bids, I have long held that no team should qualify for postseason play if it does not have a .500 record in its conference for hoops (or a conference title in football). True, that applies mostly for hoops, but if you cannot win your conference why should you be a possible national champion? Of course the current system gives big bucks to all those in the multiple bid power conferences so the rich do get richer. This system also devalues conference play a bit and makes it almost impossible for "outsiders" to ever get into the playoffs. (unless you are Notre Dame and undefeated - and even then some complain).
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Post by nhteamer on Dec 30, 2018 11:38:18 GMT -5
'BAMA
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 30, 2018 12:18:47 GMT -5
I'll go with Alabama--clutch play and superior coaching to go along with the extraordinary talent
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 30, 2018 15:55:02 GMT -5
- For all intents and purposes an Open Admissions policy. When was the last time you heard an SEC coach indicate that they lost a kid due to Admissions. Not in debate. When was the last time he last time you heard a Notre Dame coach indicate that they lost a kid due to Admissions? Excepting Stanford and (maybe) Duke and Northwestern, open admissions is standard across the top five conferences.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 30, 2018 16:08:55 GMT -5
Maybe it happens, but they don't whine as much about it as some other schools.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 30, 2018 16:30:45 GMT -5
Well, since you asked. We hear about the admissions issues every year (and every season) without exception from almost every PL school. If it is that bad, suck it up and work with what you have. How is that?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 30, 2018 16:37:07 GMT -5
The anti-ND argument that they only have a good record because they don’t play anyone is very lazy.
They had a tougher strength of schedule (#21) than both Alabama (#33) and Clemson (#32) this year. Their 12-game schedule included only two teams who are not in a BCS conference, Navy & Ball State. Is that really worse than the bottom of Alabama (Citadel, LA Lafayette, Arkansas St) and Clemson’s (Fruman, GA Southern) schedules?
They certainly laid an egg against Clemson yesterday, but if that 1st quarter kickoff fumble was ruled inbounds for a recovery by ND (either the right call or a fraction of an inch from being the right call), ND goes up 10-3 and it could have been a totally different game.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 30, 2018 16:49:27 GMT -5
"Do you really believe that their talent was comparable to Clemson's in any way whatsoever? Certainly, in the game that I witnessed, ND was totally outclassed by Clemson on so many levels."
That issue was stetted by the final score. What is more important is whether or not undefeated ND belonged in the Final Four and playing in the national semifinals. I believe they did.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 30, 2018 17:00:08 GMT -5
I have no brief against ND but... Do you really believe that their talent was comparable to Clemson's in any way whatsoever? Certainly, in the game that I witnessed, ND was totally outclassed by Clemson on so many levels. And, In my view Georgia & Fla. to name two were far superior. LoveHC If you simply swapped QBs, it would have been a very different game. Ian Book was dreadful and ND needs a significant upgrade. ND’s best defensive back (and one of the better ones in the country), Julian Love, was also injured on the first series of the game, and his replacement was badly exposed.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 30, 2018 17:25:09 GMT -5
The anti-ND argument that they only have a good record because they don’t play anyone is very lazy. They had a tougher strength of schedule (#21) than both Alabama (#33) and Clemson (#32) this year. Their 12-game schedule included only two teams who are not in a BCS conference, Navy & Ball State. Is that really worse than the bottom of Alabama (Citadel, LA Lafayette, Arkansas St) and Clemson’s (Fruman, GA Southern) schedules? They certainly laid an egg against Clemson yesterday, but if that 1st quarter kickoff fumble was ruled inbounds for a recovery by ND (either the right call or a fraction of an inch from being the right call), ND goes up 10-3 and it could have been a totally different game. ND by no means plays a weak schedule. But there’s NO WAY if they played in the SEC they’d sniff the jockstrap of an undefeated season. Irish completely deserved to be in the playoff. A couple bounces go another way and yesterday’s game is respectable. FBS football is basically BAMA CLEMSON GEORGIA and a long elevator ride down to the rest.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 30, 2018 17:31:04 GMT -5
The anti-ND argument that they only have a good record because they don’t play anyone is very lazy. They had a tougher strength of schedule (#21) than both Alabama (#33) and Clemson (#32) this year. Their 12-game schedule included only two teams who are not in a BCS conference, Navy & Ball State. Is that really worse than the bottom of Alabama (Citadel, LA Lafayette, Arkansas St) and Clemson’s (Fruman, GA Southern) schedules? They certainly laid an egg against Clemson yesterday, but if that 1st quarter kickoff fumble was ruled inbounds for a recovery by ND (either the right call or a fraction of an inch from being the right call), ND goes up 10-3 and it could have been a totally different game. But there’s NO WAY if they played in the SEC they’d sniff the jockstrap of an undefeated season. Irish completely deserved to be in the playofft Maybe, maybe not. The SEC has some great teams, but they also have some clunkers, and depending on the rotation of teams, some schedules aren’t any stronger than the group of ACC, Big 10, Pac 12 teams ND criss-crosses the country to play (Alabama’s schedule this year, for example). Brian Kelly has done an excellent job making the roster bigger, stronger, and more athletic. They just haven’t had anything close to an elite quarterback since Brady Quinn and that’s really hurt them against top teams.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 30, 2018 17:56:39 GMT -5
Alabama has an elite quarterback now, but has won some championships with journeymen at the position.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Dec 30, 2018 21:23:53 GMT -5
Clemson was the better team for sure, but with a few minutes to go in the first half it was 3-9. ND forced Clemson to punt several times. To say it was a total mismatch is an overstatement.
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