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Post by sader1970 on Oct 11, 2021 15:48:11 GMT -5
Feel free to PM me if there are personal reasons why your position is so strong against Tom Gilmore but prefer not to post publicly.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 11, 2021 16:13:57 GMT -5
What facts have you presented? You said he “got lucky” with Dom but that’s an opinion, not fact. Also, Dom had an excellent offensive line that he would not have succeeded without. Did he get lucky with them as well? I stipulate that’s my opinion and not a fact either. You had issues with Tom. OK, I understand that. My relationship with him was not player to coach but alum to coach and no question that’s a very different dynamic. That said, I have spoken to a number of his former players who loved the guy but with the caveat that his tough love approach was not well received by some players. So, we can agree to disagree but, again, those are opinions and not facts you (and I) have presented. Facts: we fired him mideseason. He has yet to score a touchdown this season in his PL reboot. Why are you so vigorously defending him? Because you got gladhanded at an alumni event? The players at HC did not like playing for him. I can assure you that unrest was his undoing. It appears the players at LU don’t enjoy playing for him either. The litmus test suggests it was TG, not HC that had the problem. Keep waiving your pom poms for a rival head coach though. Facts: In 2005 TG's third year we put together a winning record after what, one winning season in 13 years?. John O'Neil was the starting QB not Dom Randolph. This was the year we beat Lehigh, who was ranked in the Top 10. You may have been on the field for that one. From 2006-2009, we were a total 5 points away from winning 4 straight Patriot League championships. The defense improved by just about every metric every single year during that stretch. Gilmore-coached teams managed to finish with winning records in both 2010 and 2011, the first two season's after Randolph departed. In 2010, we were a 14-7 loss to Lehigh short of winning the league. The bar was clearly raised. We went from competing evenly with the likes of Fairfield and San Diego to competing evenly with the likes of Harvard, UMASS, UNH and the top teams in the PL. Sure, Gilmore had some dynamite assistants during his big run, not to mention Dom and a stacked O Line. But building a staff is part of being a head coach, right?
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 11, 2021 17:02:27 GMT -5
Dom keeps getting mentioned, deservedly so. But perhaps Peter Pujals better defines TG's HC tenure. It seemed that Pujals was regularly "oh so close" to putting it all together to win the league and make a good showing in the FCS tournament like HC did under Gilmore with Dom.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 11, 2021 17:04:14 GMT -5
Feel free to PM me if there are personal reasons why your position is so strong against Tom Gilmore but prefer not to post publicly. Just tell me when you played for TG. My assumption is you didn’t. Enough said. Again, the results speak for themselves. I wish no ill will on the man.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 11, 2021 17:12:09 GMT -5
Facts: we fired him mideseason. He has yet to score a touchdown this season in his PL reboot. Why are you so vigorously defending him? Because you got gladhanded at an alumni event? The players at HC did not like playing for him. I can assure you that unrest was his undoing. It appears the players at LU don’t enjoy playing for him either. The litmus test suggests it was TG, not HC that had the problem. Keep waiving your pom poms for a rival head coach though. Facts: In 2005 TG's third year we put together a winning record after what, one winning season in 13 years?. John O'Neil was the starting QB not Dom Randolph. This was the year we beat Lehigh, who was ranked in the Top 10. You may have been on the field for that one. From 2006-2009, we were a total 5 points away from winning 4 straight Patriot League championships. The defense improved by just about every metric every single year during that stretch. Gilmore-coached teams managed to finish with winning records in both 2010 and 2011, the first two season's after Randolph departed. In 2010, we were a 14-7 loss to Lehigh short of winning the league. The bar was clearly raised. We went from competing evenly with the likes of Fairfield and San Diego to competing evenly with the likes of Harvard, UMASS, UNH and the top teams in the PL. Sure, Gilmore had some dynamite assistants during his big run, not to mention Dom and a stacked O Line. But building a staff is part of being a head coach, right? You win, man. I won’t argue with you. You obviously played for TG and are entitled to your opinion. I respect a brother who wore the jersey. What I won’t do, however, is accept the opinion of those who never laid it on the line when it comes to matters ONLY known by players. TG may be a fine man. He is proving to be a bad coach. That’s the thrust of all of this.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 11, 2021 17:43:43 GMT -5
Won PL "Coach of the Year" twice. From Wiki: His career at Holy Cross was "A Tale of Two Cities" - 2004-2011 and 2012-2017. I don't pretend to know all of the reasons for this dichotomy but I am confident that the answer(s) is/are not black & white or as simple as many here believe. What I do know about Tom Gilmore is: * He loved Holy Cross and everything it stands for * He wanted, and still wants, Holy Cross to succeed * He is a fierce competitor * He doesn't like to lose and holds high standards for himself and everyone he associates with The doubters will likely be proven wrong in the long run. Tell me more about his doubters, counselor.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 11, 2021 19:43:56 GMT -5
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Post by jkh67 on Oct 11, 2021 19:45:48 GMT -5
I've never met Gilmore...much less played for him in a Crusader uniform. Based on what I've read about him on this site, he seems to be a good guy and I don't doubt his dedication to HC after such a long tenure. That being said, he was not doing well in his later years as HC coach. In my estimation, Pine should not have waited until the Yale disaster to fire him. Gilmore should have been terminated immediately after the debacle against Fordham at Yankee Stadium a few years earlier -- one of the true low points in the long history of HC football.
The reality is that, even at the PL level, coaches don't deserve to be retained if they don't produce good results. And Gilmore wasn't producing good results in the later years of his tenure, whatever his track record early on. (I won't get into the Randolph question, beyond noting that Casey Stengel admonished an adulatory press in 1953 after the Yankees won their fifth World Series in a row that he couldn't have done it without the players. That goes for any coach/manager in my view, regardless of the sport.)
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 12, 2021 0:15:53 GMT -5
Once TG decides that a career as a football coach is no longer in the cards, I see him being very successful in either Athletic Department Fund Raising, or as a Account Manager/ Director for one of the major athletic firms such as Nike or Adidas. Another option would be as an Analyst for a sports network. He has decades of football experience, the presence and the verbal skills to succeed in front of a camera.
In his mid 50’s, he has several more years before retirement. I wish him success once he leaves the coaching profession.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 12, 2021 4:37:07 GMT -5
Not sure I can believe you - diver Thornton Mellon (Rodney Dangerfield) was able to pull it off in the 80s as a middle aged dad. I tell ya you get no respect....
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 12, 2021 7:50:56 GMT -5
Rodney Dangerfield is DEAD! Now let’s see him pull it off!😂
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Post by mm67 on Oct 12, 2021 8:37:42 GMT -5
Of no particular value. Let me stipulate at the outset. I like TG. Thought he was a fine man & was proud to have him represent HC. However, maybe erroneously, I got the sense that there was a high turnover among his assistants. At that time I was able to drive to Fitton. At one of the games (Dartmouth?) had a casual conversation with another alum. (possibly a poster on Crossports). I shared my observation about the turnover in assistants. The following were his observations: He liked Tom but he noted that the coach ceaselessly worked day & night. He was driven to succeed out of proportion and was extremely difficult to work for. In fact he mercilessly drove himself & those around him. He was given to flashes of anger. Players felt the stress also.HC football was a not in a good place. TG was uptight as was the workplace. He believed this situation with HC football may have affected recruiting.
At the time of TG's forced removal I felt that it was a good move for HC but also maybe for TG, too. Time for this fine man to go in a new direction..The change might have given him an opportunity to reflect, gain some introspection, get a balance and cool down. Possibly with experience he would gain a new perspective and find the right balance. Maybe, this is all poppycock. I do not have first-hand knowledge. Eyes are tried have to stop. Any comments?
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Post by inhocsigno on Oct 12, 2021 8:44:20 GMT -5
Let's let this thread die...like Lehigh's chances of winning a PL title. Coach Gilmore, who I did not play for, gave his all to our program for over a decade. I played for DA, and we had three bad seasons and one good season. I don't doubt his dedication, commitment and value to HC, nor should we discount Gilmore's. We can be optimistic about the program's trajectory under HCBC. Let us look to the future.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 12, 2021 9:09:23 GMT -5
I have to think at this point where one is in the Ignatius camp, the 4Crusader3 (RIP) camp, or somewhere in-between; we all know where TG's career at Lehigh is headed. Best of luck to him in the future; hope he lands on his feet. Enough of this thread for a while.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 12, 2021 9:37:48 GMT -5
I should add that I honestly don’t care about any of this. We’re in good hands with BC. I just felt the need to speak my mind based on my own experiences, and in response to the TG sympathizers.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 12, 2021 11:02:45 GMT -5
On the Lehigh board, those fans are indeed blaming TG BUT . . . . Included in the blame are the: 1. AD 2. Offensive coordinator 3. President, not just for football but for the entire direction of the university And, believe it or not, there are defenders of TG and almost no one expects TG to be fired mid-season a la Holy Cross because 1. that's not how they do things at Lehigh and 2. because they believe the entire program needs to be evaluated post-season including AD, head coach, assistants (especially OC - anyone remember we had the same issues with OC under TG?), and players and some there also argue like we do that the PL has inherent recruiting disadvantageous. They are also questioning how long TG's contract is because it appears they generally don't believe Lehigh would terminate prior to contract running out. www.lehighsportsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21471&sid=a8c40179b017205dcf81e43c49f6a53a&start=50
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 12, 2021 11:10:21 GMT -5
sader1970, It sounds as though Lehigh is trying to give TG a fair shake in light of the unusual events of the last two seasons. I know he was tough on assistants, but I like and respect the man and hope he lands on his feet whatever happens this year.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 12, 2021 11:25:21 GMT -5
Agree.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 19, 2021 9:26:37 GMT -5
Of no particular value. Let me stipulate at the outset. I like TG. Thought he was a fine man & was proud to have him represent HC. However, maybe erroneously, I got the sense that there was a high turnover among his assistants. At that time I was able to drive to Fitton. At one of the games (Dartmouth?) had a casual conversation with another alum. (possibly a poster on Crossports). I shared my observation about the turnover in assistants. The following were his observations: He liked Tom but he noted that the coach ceaselessly worked day & night. He was driven to succeed out of proportion and was extremely difficult to work for. In fact he mercilessly drove himself & those around him. He was given to flashes of anger. Players felt the stress also.HC football was a not in a good place. TG was uptight as was the workplace. He believed this situation with HC football may have affected recruiting. At the time of TG's forced removal I felt that it was a good move for HC but also maybe for TG, too. Time for this fine man to go in a new direction..The change might have given him an opportunity to reflect, gain some introspection, get a balance and cool down. Possibly with experience he would gain a new perspective and find the right balance. Maybe, this is all poppycock. I do not have first-hand knowledge. Eyes are tried have to stop. Any comments? I won't argue that Gilmore was a breeze to work for, but two young assistants with bright futures (Charlie Noonan and Anthony Dimichele) voluntarily chose to work for Gilmore at Lehigh after being retained on Chesney's staff at HC. While Gilmore was certainly an extremely hard worker, "uptight," etc, but are those really unique characteristics of football coaches? How would you describe the two best football coaches of this generation -- Bill Belichick and Nick Saban? Gilmore was pretty darn successful during the first half of his tenure at HC, but some combination of staying in the same place for too long and struggling with the changing landscape of 1-AA football in the northeast (Ivy increasing aid, NEC adding scholarships, PL transitioning to scholarships) -- which every PL school struggled with -- meant it was time for a change for both HC and TG*. *If TG was not currently the head coach at Lehigh, he would likely still be on the staff for undefeated #16 Wake Forest.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 10:26:36 GMT -5
Of no particular value. Let me stipulate at the outset. I like TG. Thought he was a fine man & was proud to have him represent HC. However, maybe erroneously, I got the sense that there was a high turnover among his assistants. At that time I was able to drive to Fitton. At one of the games (Dartmouth?) had a casual conversation with another alum. (possibly a poster on Crossports). I shared my observation about the turnover in assistants. The following were his observations: He liked Tom but he noted that the coach ceaselessly worked day & night. He was driven to succeed out of proportion and was extremely difficult to work for. In fact he mercilessly drove himself & those around him. He was given to flashes of anger. Players felt the stress also.HC football was a not in a good place. TG was uptight as was the workplace. He believed this situation with HC football may have affected recruiting. At the time of TG's forced removal I felt that it was a good move for HC but also maybe for TG, too. Time for this fine man to go in a new direction..The change might have given him an opportunity to reflect, gain some introspection, get a balance and cool down. Possibly with experience he would gain a new perspective and find the right balance. Maybe, this is all poppycock. I do not have first-hand knowledge. Eyes are tried have to stop. Any comments? I won't argue that Gilmore was a breeze to work for, but two young assistants with bright futures (Charlie Noonan and Anthony Dimichele) voluntarily chose to work for Gilmore at Lehigh after being retained on Chesney's staff at HC. While Gilmore was certainly an extremely hard worker, "uptight," etc, but are those really unique characteristics of football coaches? How would you describe the two best football coaches of this generation -- Bill Belichick and Nick Saban? Gilmore was pretty darn successful during the first half of his tenure at HC, but some combination of staying in the same place for too long and struggling with the changing landscape of 1-AA football in the northeast (Ivy increasing aid, NEC adding scholarships, PL transitioning to scholarships) -- which every PL school struggled with -- meant it was time for a change for both HC and TG*. *If TG was not currently the head coach at Lehigh, he would likely still be on the staff for undefeated #16 Wake Forest. I encourage you to go read the Lehigh board re. TG’s people skills. Also, it doesnt seem like it took Noonan long to leave the staff at LU. As for Wake, TG didn’t even have a positional group to coach there.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 19, 2021 10:31:50 GMT -5
I won't argue that Gilmore was a breeze to work for, but two young assistants with bright futures (Charlie Noonan and Anthony Dimichele) voluntarily chose to work for Gilmore at Lehigh after being retained on Chesney's staff at HC. While Gilmore was certainly an extremely hard worker, "uptight," etc, but are those really unique characteristics of football coaches? How would you describe the two best football coaches of this generation -- Bill Belichick and Nick Saban? Gilmore was pretty darn successful during the first half of his tenure at HC, but some combination of staying in the same place for too long and struggling with the changing landscape of 1-AA football in the northeast (Ivy increasing aid, NEC adding scholarships, PL transitioning to scholarships) -- which every PL school struggled with -- meant it was time for a change for both HC and TG*. *If TG was not currently the head coach at Lehigh, he would likely still be on the staff for undefeated #16 Wake Forest. I encourage you to go read the Lehigh board re. TG’s people skills. I encourage you to listen to Boston sports radio to hear people complain about Bill Belichick’s coaching style now that the Pats are struggling. Fans of any team that is losing are going to complain about the coach. I don’t know or care what’s going on at Lehigh. All I know is that TG did a better job at HC than people seem to want to give him credit for.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 19, 2021 10:34:52 GMT -5
Would you prefer him over Bob Chesney?
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 10:38:57 GMT -5
I encourage you to go read the Lehigh board re. TG’s people skills. I encourage you to listen to Boston sports radio to hear people complain about Bill Belichick’s coaching style now that the Pats are struggling. Fans of any team that is losing are going to complain about the coach. I don’t know or care what’s going on at Lehigh. All I know is that TG did a better job at HC than people seem to want to give him credit for. He’s a bad coach and people don’t seem to care for his personality either. I was merely providing evidence of both.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Oct 19, 2021 10:42:55 GMT -5
Please, not this again. We all get it; some people love him, some people hate him and the vast majority don't give a sh**.
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Oct 19, 2021 10:47:48 GMT -5
Please, not this again. We all get it; some people love him, some people hate him and the vast majority don't give a sh**. This is what the board is for. Debate. If you dont like it, don’t keep opening a thread entitled “New Leigh coach—Tom Gilmore.”
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