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Post by jkh67 on Jan 17, 2019 20:57:28 GMT -5
I've never forgotten Carmody's first HC press conference. I was struck by his low energy presentation. Very much like a guy looking to close out his career in a non-stressful situation at a school that used to have a big basketball reputation. I haven't seen much since then to change my initial impression.
What HC basketball needs is what I think/hope we've found in football...a smart, highly energized young guy able to relate to high school kids, bring the recruits he wants on board, and WIN, WIN, WIN. The big problem on the recruiting front is that I don't believe JC himself could bring high caliber basketball recruits to a school that plays in that glorified high school gym known as the Hart Center. Not to mention the PL downer. That's the recruiting challenge for the next coach. Hopefully, not an impossible one.
As always, thanks to Fr. Brooks for screwing up a once praiseworthy program
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 17, 2019 22:17:54 GMT -5
A ridiculous reach. Mark Few & Brad Stevens didn't have any head coaching experience or experience in a "real leadership position" prior to being hired by Gonzaga & Butler (with Stevens having only worked for one head coach). How'd that work out? Even your guy Carmody had only one year of head coaching experience at a Community College, followed by 20 years as an assistant, before he was hired by Princeton. Yeah I know some guys who are 5-10 who are great basketball players do I guess height is not an asset in the sport. Again, we’ve got to get you to a logic course—would really help you I would guess that "Basketball Skills" were a great asset for those guys. Just like "Head Coaching Skills" are a great asset for successful coaches. Where those skills were acquired -- as an assistant like Mark Few, Brad Stevens or Greg Popovich, as a player who continued involvement in the game through other roles like Steve Kerr or (college) Fred Hoiberg, or as a head coach working his way up through all levels like John Beilein -- is not close to as important as just having those skills. If there was a prototype for experience that created a successful coach, all hires would follow that same formula. When the next logic course is being held, I'll be sure to hop in line right behind the crew who thinks someone who's won 46% of his games over the last 16.5 years is a "great coach."
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 17, 2019 22:51:06 GMT -5
Excellent. I think you’ll find the classes very helpful
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Post by Ignutz on Jan 17, 2019 23:25:47 GMT -5
I've never forgotten Carmody's first HC press conference. I was struck by his low energy presentation. Very much like a guy looking to close out his career in a non-stressful situation at a school that used to have a big basketball reputation. I haven't seen much since then to change my initial impression. What HC basketball needs is what I think/hope we've found in football...a smart, highly energized young guy able to relate to high school kids, bring the recruits he wants on board, and WIN, WIN, WIN. The big problem on the recruiting front is that I don't believe JC himself could bring high caliber basketball recruits to a school that plays in that glorified high school gym known as the Hart Center. Not to mention the PL downer. That's the recruiting challenge for the next coach. Hopefully, not an impossible one. As always, thanks to Fr. Brooks for screwing up a once praiseworthy program I strongly disagree with your description of the Hart. If you want to see a glorified high school gym, trek over to the World’s Greatest University, pay your $10.00 to park, and watch the Johnnies. From there, head to Comm Ave. make your way up a few floors, and prepare to be incredibly underwhelmed. For a road trip, venture to New Rochelle, and cheer on the Gaels. I think the Hart is a very good basketball venue that when full (hopefully again in our lifetime) provides a solid home court advantage for our lads.
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Post by Xmassader on Jan 18, 2019 1:14:03 GMT -5
With regard to Andy Sachs: When FCRW left, FADDR told Andy (and presumably the other assistants) that he would not hire anyone as the head coach who had not had college head coaching experience. With that information in hand, Andy sought and obtained the head coaching position at Bethany College. Then FADDR did exactly what he told Andy he would not do—hire someone who had no college head coaching experience.
As most posters are well aware, the fateful events of June, 2009-March, 2010 (FCRW’s unexpected departure, the selection of FCSK, subsequent termination of FCSK after 9 mos. on the job, rejection of the job by Mike Lonergan and hiring of FCMB) have had an extremely negative effect on the program-an effect from which we are still trying to recover. Two winning seasons (and hopefully a third this yr.), no regular season PL championships and one NCAA appearance since all of that went down.
Certainly, there are some encouraging signs of improvement this yr. but we’ve got a ways to go to get back to the FCRW level of success—7 PL championship game appearances in 10 yrs. w. 4 titles. Let’s hope the new AD is focused on getting us there.
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Post by sader81 on Jan 18, 2019 7:21:58 GMT -5
With regard to Andy Sachs: When FCRW left, FADDR told Andy (and presumably the other assistants) that he would not hire anyone as the head coach who had not had college head coaching experience. With that information in hand, Andy sought and obtained the head coaching position at Bethany College. Then FADDR did exactly what he told Andy he would not do—hire someone who had no college head coaching experience. As most posters are well aware, the fateful events of June, 2009-March, 2010 (FCRW’s unexpected departure, the selection of FCSK, subsequent termination of FCSK after 9 mos. on the job, rejection of the job by Mike Lonergan and hiring of FCMB) have had an extremely negative effect on the program-an effect from which we are still trying to recover. Two winning seasons (and hopefully a third this yr.), no regular season PL championships and one NCAA appearance since all of that went down. It was on a decline before then, I’m sorry to say. Student interest has declined beginning in the 90s. Even during RWs winning years, unless it was a big game, few students made the trek up the hill. Sad.
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Post by alum on Jan 18, 2019 7:46:13 GMT -5
I've never forgotten Carmody's first HC press conference. I was struck by his low energy presentation. Very much like a guy looking to close out his career in a non-stressful situation at a school that used to have a big basketball reputation. I haven't seen much since then to change my initial impression. What HC basketball needs is what I think/hope we've found in football... a smart, highly energized young guy able to relate to high school kids, bring the recruits he wants on board, and WIN, WIN, WIN. The big problem on the recruiting front is that I don't believe JC himself could bring high caliber basketball recruits to a school that plays in that glorified high school gym known as the Hart Center. Not to mention the PL downer. That's the recruiting challenge for the next coach. Hopefully, not an impossible one. As always, thanks to Fr. Brooks for screwing up a once praiseworthy program It would appear that Coach Chesney is able to relate to high school kids, but I don't think that it is the high energy thing that makes that happen. I think that "kids today" tune out that rah rah stuff completely. I think that the "smart" thing matters more. The kids think he knows how to win and will follow him into battle because of that characteristic.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 18, 2019 7:56:49 GMT -5
Oh, boy, glad you moderated that first statement because Chesney is even more "rah rah" than Gilmore. The difference seems to be that while TG was emotional both positive and negative, I think Chez does a much better job at moderating the negative emotions. If someone didn't perform - players or assistants - or the refs made a bad call, TG let them have it. Chez holds back or, in the case of players seems to have "we'll get 'em next time" approach.
The Lehigh-HC games will be interesting to watch. A football rivalry may be in the making with the LU hiring of TG.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 18, 2019 8:01:27 GMT -5
They have a better mascot?
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Post by crusader12 on Jan 18, 2019 8:14:18 GMT -5
They have a better mascot? At least they have a mascot.........
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Post by possum on Jan 18, 2019 8:17:03 GMT -5
Bucknell has been better because they consistently recruit better players than the rest of the league. Does anyone really believe that Brad Stevens would have a tough time winning here, he took Butler to the final game twice the greatest feat in the history of college basketball.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 18, 2019 8:20:14 GMT -5
Some might argue that John Wooden's recruiting and utilization of those recruits to win multiple consecutive national titles was an even better feat. But, I get your point.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 18, 2019 9:26:52 GMT -5
Some might argue that John Wooden's recruiting and utilization of those recruits to win multiple consecutive national titles was an even better feat. But, I get your point. Until Sam Gilbert came along, John W, won 0 championships. A great coach ? Definitely. But Sam got the players.
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Post by notjuanjones on Jan 18, 2019 10:35:10 GMT -5
Until Sam Gilbert came along, John W, won 0 championships. A great coach ? Definitely. But Sam got the players. Gilbert's role was common knowledge and it insulated Coach Wooden by allowing him to claim "plausible deniability" until Wooden was forced to acknowledge his relationship with Gilbert. In his defense, it is my understanding that Wooden's players attended class and graduated. Could be wrong but that was what I was told. LoveHC In the main, they did go to class and graduate. That doesn't change the fact that many of them wouldn't have been on UCLA's campus in the first place if not for the "additional benefits" Gilbert lined up for them after their arrival. No one is saying John Wooden wasn't a great coach. I just draw the line at the deification of him by many in the college basketball media. He looked the other way while Gilbert hooked those kids up, and that makes him...no different from other great coaches who've benefitted from the stretching/breaking of the NCAA's admittedly archaic rules. But they are nonetheless the rules.
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Post by classof83 on Jan 18, 2019 10:44:52 GMT -5
On a side note - WFAN's Mike Francesa suggested the other night that Rick Pitino could be UCLA's coach next year.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 18, 2019 10:52:12 GMT -5
Gilbert's role was common knowledge and it insulated Coach Wooden by allowing him to claim "plausible deniability" until Wooden was forced to acknowledge his relationship with Gilbert. In his defense, it is my understanding that Wooden's players attended class and graduated. Could be wrong but that was what I was told. LoveHC In the main, they did go to class and graduate. That doesn't change the fact that many of them wouldn't have been on UCLA's campus in the first place if not for the "additional benefits" Gilbert lined up for them after their arrival. No one is saying John Wooden wasn't a great coach. I just draw the line at the deification of him by many in the college basketball media. He looked the other way while Gilbert hooked those kids up, and that makes him...no different from other great coaches who've benefitted from the stretching/breaking of the NCAA's admittedly archaic rules. But they are nonetheless the rules. Agree 100%. The NCAA looked the other way while Wooden was there, and still ignored it for a few years after he left. But then they came down hard on Larry Brown for allowing Gilbert to do the same things he did in the Wooden era.
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Post by Tom on Jan 18, 2019 11:34:32 GMT -5
He looked the other way while Gilbert hooked those kids up, and that makes him...no different from other great coaches who've benefitted from the stretching/breaking of the NCAA's admittedly archaic rules. But they are nonetheless the rules. One difference. . . he won 7 in a row and 10 out of 12. When his program broke the rules they were incredibly dominant, all the others were successful, but not nearly that successful
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Post by timholycross on Jan 18, 2019 15:18:05 GMT -5
I've never forgotten Carmody's first HC press conference. I was struck by his low energy presentation. Very much like a guy looking to close out his career in a non-stressful situation at a school that used to have a big basketball reputation. I haven't seen much since then to change my initial impression. What HC basketball needs is what I think/hope we've found in football...a smart, highly energized young guy able to relate to high school kids, bring the recruits he wants on board, and WIN, WIN, WIN. The big problem on the recruiting front is that I don't believe JC himself could bring high caliber basketball recruits to a school that plays in that glorified high school gym known as the Hart Center. Not to mention the PL downer. That's the recruiting challenge for the next coach. Hopefully, not an impossible one. As always, thanks to Fr. Brooks for screwing up a once praiseworthy program It's been a long time since I paid attention to a coaching introductory press conference, although Adam Gase's recent effort might cause me to think differently about that. George Blaney's opening act said "we'll press the second we come out of the locker room". Then he found out how the personnel he had were incapable of doing it. The press went on the shelf for two years. Milan Brown said something about "playing defense with enthusiasm or you'll be out of there with enthusiasm". Only saw that exhibited in small doses.
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Post by notjuanjones on Jan 18, 2019 17:06:34 GMT -5
In the main, they did go to class and graduate. That doesn't change the fact that many of them wouldn't have been on UCLA's campus in the first place if not for the "additional benefits" Gilbert lined up for them after their arrival. No one is saying John Wooden wasn't a great coach. I just draw the line at the deification of him by many in the college basketball media. He looked the other way while Gilbert hooked those kids up, and that makes him...no different from other great coaches who've benefitted from the stretching/breaking of the NCAA's admittedly archaic rules. But they are nonetheless the rules. 4not... You are absolutely correct. I totally agree with your astute comments. Did Alcindor (at that time) or his family get any financial benefits or payments in goods and services from UCLA or anyone indirectly working on behalf of the school? There has, AFAIK, never been any direct accusation concerning illicit payments between Kareem and Gilbert, though Gilbert served as his attorney when he negotiated his first pro contract with the Milwaukee Bucks. After Gilbert's death in 1987, the L.A. Times referred to him as a "benefactor" for KAJ, Bill Walton and Sidney Wicks. Seth Davis's book on Wooden has a chapter devoted to Gilbert, but he steers clear of making any accusations about KAJ (KAJ did not cooperate with him for the book). Davis wrote, "While it is plausible to assume that Gilbert gave players cash, no one has gone on record to say so...Rather, Gilbert served as a conduit between the players and businessmen he knew around town, men who gave them special discounts, if they charged the players at all...Taken individually, these favors were hardly alarming...But it was the pattern of behavior-helping out multiple players over several years-that made Gilbert's role so problematic."
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 18, 2019 17:21:30 GMT -5
I believe that Coach Wooden is so beloved a figure that even publicity-anxious ex-players would not sell him out.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 18, 2019 17:36:02 GMT -5
In fairness, tim, my recollection was that Milan himself never said that, it was one of his assistants summarizing Milan's philosophy to a new player.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 18, 2019 18:25:06 GMT -5
I believe that Coach Wooden is so beloved a figure that even publicity-anxious ex-players would not sell him out. Excerpt from a 2010 LA Times article on Gilbert and UCLA: "A 1981 Times investigative series, which interviewed 45 people connected with the basketball program, established Gilbert as "a one-man clearing house who has enabled players and their families to receive goods and services usually at big discounts and sometimes at no cost." The paper quoted Brent Clark, an NCAA field investigator who said that, in 1977, he was told to drop his case in Westwood. "If I had spent a month in Los Angeles, I could have put them on indefinite suspension," he said of UCLA. An NCAA spokesman disputed this claim. The Times established that Gilbert, during Wooden's heyday, helped players get cars, clothes, airline tickets and scalpers' prices for UCLA season tickets. Gilbert allegedly even arranged abortions for players' girlfriends. One former UCLA All-American told The Times: "What do you want me to say? That's my school. I don't want to see them take away all those championships." Gilbert considered many NCAA rules arcane and silly."
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Post by sader81 on Feb 16, 2019 16:17:23 GMT -5
People overlook the fact that BuckU had four days to prepare for the Princeton offense, having played American the game before. They are always tough at home, and shot lights out! For whatever reason, Grandy and Green had off nights. Butler played pretty well, and looks to be getting back to last year’s form. This is still a young team with growing pains and they keep getting better, albeit, not in a straight line. At the end of the year, they will be right in the mix, and will beat BuckU at home - take book on it!Ahem!
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 16, 2019 16:22:23 GMT -5
Very well done, sir!!
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