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Post by Tom on Jan 24, 2019 9:55:41 GMT -5
Starting a new thread because this isn't exclusive to any single game thread.
I'm not a coach, but do any of our coaches out there think that using a 6 man rotation night in night out is creating mental fatigue? To me, the guys don't appear physically gassed at the end of the games, but they certainly don't look right. Some of this might be our league foes knowing us well. I'm wondering if mental fatigue is also a contributing cause and throwing it out there for discussion
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Post by Crosser on Jan 24, 2019 10:54:03 GMT -5
I agree with the “certainly don’t look right.” But, it seems to me if there’s mental fatigue, it must have been accompanied by physical fatigue as well. I don’t want to say that the team has quit on the coach or has “mailed it in” because there are frequent spurts of high energy and intensive effort from all the players. But, there are many prolonged periods where they seem to be running plays and sets in a lazy, lackadaisical manner. I didn’t notice this during the OOC. The current rotation is clearly not viable. I’m not sold on the theory that other PL coaches just know Carmody’s stuff so well that they can shut us down at will. Wouldn’t Carmody have the same familiarity with them and be able to make similar adjustments. Oh, wait....... never mind.
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Post by Ray on Jan 24, 2019 10:57:51 GMT -5
I think mental fatigue is possible. I also think it makes us even easier to prep for. There's no varied look to HC, no "they up the defensive pressure when this lineup configuration is on the floor", etc. I also think it hurts our defensive aggressiveness... we generally have avoided foul trouble, but is that a chicken-or-egg thing? Is everyone overly conscious of staying on the floor and defending too passively as a result?
Getting Niego back would help, as would one of the frosh developing into a 7th-8th man who could give even 10 minutes a night.
For a multitude of reasons, it doesn't seem like the current model is tenable.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 24, 2019 11:05:06 GMT -5
I've made exactly the same point in the past. How come it is a one-way street? They learn how to defend us . . . . . and do so. Us learning to defend them? Not so much.
The wide open 3s that it seems every team gets playing us, repeatedly, just drives me bonkers. And the after-the-shot-is-released dives on "defense" into the seats when we aren't giving them 4-point plays is insane.
And being outrebounded almost every single game against even poor rebounding teams - except when they play us - is frustrating.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 24, 2019 11:29:31 GMT -5
I’m not sold on the theory that other PL coaches just know Carmody’s stuff so well that they can shut us down at will. Wouldn’t Carmody have the same familiarity with them and be able to make similar adjustments. Oh, wait....... never mind. Other PL teams are not shutting us down.
HC Non-Con EFG - 52.8% HC Conference EFG - 56.4%
They are just having a much easier time shredding our defense to pieces
HC Non-Con EFG Defense - 49.4% HC Conference EFG Defense - 57.9%
Carmody is, as you note, as familiar with what other PL teams do as they are with us. You assume, I guess, that he is putting the same amount of time and thought into game preparation, in-game adjustments, and finding ways to correct multiple, chronic deficiencies (rebounding, closing out shooters at the arc without exposing the interior, finding ways to get to the free throw line) as others do.
He recruits "pass, dribble, shoot," and I think he is unduly preoccupied with that part of the game. Maybe he thinks if we "pass,dribble, shoot" well enough, he doesn't have to worry about those other annoying elements of the game which, I suspect, don't interest him as much.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 24, 2019 11:44:55 GMT -5
Did a quick look back, and believe this is the best-shooting Holy Cross team (54% EFG) in at least thirty years. With oodles of assists, too.
And here we are.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 24, 2019 11:50:36 GMT -5
I’m not sold on the theory that other PL coaches just know Carmody’s stuff so well that they can shut us down at will. Wouldn’t Carmody have the same familiarity with them and be able to make similar adjustments. Oh, wait....... never mind. Other PL teams are not shutting us down.
HC Non-Con EFG - 52.8% HC Conference EFG - 56.4%
They are just having a much easier time shredding our defense to pieces
HC Non-Con EFG Defense - 49.4% HC Conference EFG - 57.9%
Carmody is, as you note, as familiar with what other PL teams do as they are with us. You assume, I guess, that he is putting the same amount of time and thought into game preparation, in-game adjustments, and finding ways to correct multiple, chronic deficiencies (rebounding, closing out shooters at the arc without exposing the interior, finding ways to get to the free throw line) as others do.
He recruits "pass, dribble, shoot," and I think he is unduly preoccupied with that part of the game. Maybe he thinks if we "pass,dribble, shoot" well enough, he doesn't have to worry about those other annoying elements of the game which, I suspect, don't interest him as much.
Stubborn, one-trick pony coach. Undisciplined program. Over-hyped players. These pL results are far more predictable than the fool's gold OOC led some people to believe this year. Who is the best coach that we beat in the OOC? Will Brown and his 4-15 Albany Great Danes?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 24, 2019 13:57:33 GMT -5
"Over-hyped players"? Please stop the nonsense.
As far as the "fools gold OOC" start, didn't you suggest that we should win 15 or 16 games in conference? Of course you said that just to set up a bar that you knew the team could not clear. With your level of expertise, why didn't you predict what has happened in conference play?
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Post by hchoops on Jan 24, 2019 14:04:12 GMT -5
I do not have the reasons for the disparity in OOC and PL play, but I do not think that the problem is either mental or physical fatigue. We play only 2 games a week. We have not had the pressure of classes until Tuesday. Coach and all the players who get in have seen a significant drop in performance. Why ? I wish I knew.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 24, 2019 14:21:18 GMT -5
You can get away with a 6-7 man rotation in HS hoop (32 minutes and obviously, not as taxing/physical compared to college play)....you really can't do it, and be consistently successful, in college hoop. Our lack of depth has been our Waterloo.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 24, 2019 14:32:03 GMT -5
"Over-hyped players"? Please stop the nonsense. One true example of nonsense: Not to speak for all of the "objectors," but the biggest gripe seemed to be with having SIX scholarship players in the same class. As nobody had actually seen Grandison play, I don't think people we singling him out as much as they were speaking about the total lack of roster management that has been exhibited by Carmody that got us to a point of having SIX players in the same class. We would be in deep doo-doo without Grandison, so I am glad he is at HC, but that doesn't change the fact that the roster is not in good shape.I'll have to disagree--the roster will be in great shape for at least two &1/2 more years with this outstanding class on the team. To say a roster that only has 7 players capable of contributing is in "great shape" is utter nonsense. And the idea that the sophomore class is "outstanding" is fantasyland.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 24, 2019 14:35:58 GMT -5
Checking some of RW’s teams’ minutes 01-02 (18-15) 34, 34, 32, 30
06-07(25-9) 38,36, 29,29
this season 38,35,34,30
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 24, 2019 14:38:39 GMT -5
Have mentioned before, but as a reminder . . . AU got little help from the bench during conference play in 2015, due to injuries. On occasions, four of the starters (Gardner, Reed, Schoof, and Charlie Jones) each went 38-40 minutes, and they almost never went more than seven deep. They beat Lehigh (with Kempton) in the quarters of the PLT, getting just 23 minutes off the bench and using the 6-4 Jones as their center. They beat Colgate in the semis, using just one guy (for twelve minutes) off the bench. Then they took Lafayette to the brink in the final, getting a grand total of one minute from the bench.
So a thin bench doesn't preclude success - I don't think fatigue is the issue with HC, anyway.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 24, 2019 14:55:31 GMT -5
Checking some of RW’s teams’ minutes 01-02 (18-15) 34, 34, 32, 30 06-07(25-9) 38,36, 29,29 this season 38,35,34,30 What'd you think of the game last night? Are you comfortable with the future of this program with Carmody as head coach? If so, would be interested to learn why.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 24, 2019 15:02:43 GMT -5
Checking some of RW’s teams’ minutes 01-02 (18-15) 34, 34, 32, 30 06-07(25-9) 38,36, 29,29 this season 38,35,34,30 The bench on the 01-02 team had several guys, of different sizes and skills, who contributed significantly. Led by Whearty, Hurley, Geo, and Kinsey, subs combined for about 1,700 minutes, 450p, 75a, 330r. The entire 18-19 bench has collectively contributed less than Whearty did then by himself.
The 06-07 team had three bench guys (Cruze/Doherty, Meister, and Cunningham) who played in almost every game and averaged double digit minutes. The 06-07 starting five would beat the 18-19 starting five six days a week and twice on Sunday, and deserved every minute they got.
Other than Benzan (in a down year) and Niego (when healthy), the rest of the bench has been pretty much a cipher this season.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 24, 2019 15:13:35 GMT -5
Checking some of RW’s teams’ minutes 01-02 (18-15) 34, 34, 32, 30 06-07(25-9) 38,36, 29,29 this season 38,35,34,30 The bench on the 01-02 team had several guys, of different sizes and skills, who contributed significantly. Led by Whearty, Hurley, Geo, and Kinsey, subs combined for about 1,700 minutes, 450p, 75a, 330r. The entire 18-19 bench has collectively contributed less than Whearty did then by himself.
The 06-07 team had three bench guys (Cruze/Doherty, Meister, and Cunningham) who played in almost every game and averaged double digit minutes. The 06-07 starting five would beat the 18-19 starting five six days a week and twice on Sunday, and deserved every minute they got.
Other than Benzan (in a down year) and Niego (when healthy), the rest of the bench has been pretty much a cipher this season.
No disagreement, only agreeing with your above post that fatigue is likely not one of the main causes of the big decline from the OOC games
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Post by hchoops on Jan 24, 2019 15:15:52 GMT -5
Checking some of RW’s teams’ minutes 01-02 (18-15) 34, 34, 32, 30 06-07(25-9) 38,36, 29,29 this season 38,35,34,30 What'd you think of the game last night? Are you comfortable with the future of this program with Carmody as head coach? If so, would be interested to learn why. 1-obviously very disappointed 2-I am willing to wait until the end of the season to judge.
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Post by Ray on Jan 24, 2019 15:38:49 GMT -5
These pL results are far more predictable than the fool's gold OOC led some people to believe this year. Wait, aren't you the one who said we should go 17-1 in the league based on the OOC results?
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Post by hcpride on Jan 24, 2019 15:40:02 GMT -5
"Over-hyped players"? Please stop the nonsense. One true example of nonsense: I'll have to disagree--the roster will be in great shape for at least two &1/2 more years with this outstanding class on the team. To say a roster that only has 7 players capable of contributing is in "great shape" is utter nonsense. And the idea that the sophomore class is "outstanding" is fantasyland. Gotta agree. More than one poster curiously assumed that a freshman starts at HC because he is a good or very good player by PL standards (at least) . And those same posters predicted that with several of those good or very good freshman starting last year, we would be a very good team (by PL standards, at least) this year. There is a logical thread connecting the flawed assumption and the flawed prediction. At a certain point one has to realize so many frosh started because they were the best on our team (absolutely nothing to do with being a very good player by PL standards). And our team was not very good. Once one realizes that, the results of PL play this year are not nearly so baffling. The fact that no frosh has elbowed his way into the starting five also does not necessarily mean our sophomore class is particularly talented (although I can see how that sort of flawed conclusion might reinforce the original flawed assumption regarding last year's freshman starters).
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 24, 2019 16:56:15 GMT -5
Wow-- quite the analysis of the flaws in our posters' thinking
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 24, 2019 17:43:28 GMT -5
Just as a reminder, Tom spoke to mental fatigue, as opposed to physical. When I think of expectations in a team, I think of the 03-04 and 04-05 teams. The 03-04 team won I think 13 games, and was bounced in the PL Quarters. Next year, you add Tim Clifford and Pat Doherty, but lose Jave Meade. Yet, that team wins 25 games, including beating ND in the NIT. What happened? Well, in 03-04 several returning players saw their roles increased, and frankly I don't think they were ready for the challenges of being leading players rather than supporting ones. They turned that around the following year. Now, people might point to coaching, but those teams had the same coach. My point? I'm not ready to make any final judgements on kids that still have at least 70+ plus games left (and in the case of BV an MH, 100 or so). Perspective is funny when talking about teams and coaches. Some of you might find this interesting, from the College of Charleston message board. They, too, are not meeting expectations at this point in the season: www.cofcfans.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6572&sid=f8433d0578adf89b0baa609992e1e587
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 24, 2019 17:57:09 GMT -5
C'mon, Dave, admit it. These were the real reasons for linking the COC where Rob Champion's Dad, Wes, played so well and where Milan migrated to after leaving HC. "Not that there's anything wrong with that."
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 24, 2019 18:03:36 GMT -5
That was exactly why I linked to that thread, sader - to show that different fans can have VERY different perspectives.
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Post by cmo on Jan 24, 2019 18:41:58 GMT -5
Bring Back Milan ! 😂
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Post by DiMarz on Jan 24, 2019 20:10:53 GMT -5
I have noticed the lack of energy on the court of late..Last night JF seemed to be a step slow and showed little of that fire he has shown this season..I think many times players fall into a slump, they just don't work as hard as they need to, and don't realize it..Sometimes a good but kickin' opens up their eyes...The team hasn't gotten those back cuts for layups in the PL season, teams are scheming HC well..and HC isn't playing with the snap needed..Mentally tired? I don't know, maybe a bit bored...Time to ratchet up the pace of play and and change up the D a bit, that's what I would do if I was coach....(and hope CN gets healthy quickly, he is missed greatly!!)
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