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Post by sader1970 on Feb 1, 2019 11:53:39 GMT -5
Flaherty is unlikely to try to back out. Her brother, Rory, was a walk-on on the men's team but has since left the team. They are a Holy Cross family and Gibbons may or may not have had much impact on her decision to attend.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 1, 2019 12:27:38 GMT -5
The prior litigation can be followed here. www.courtlistener.com/docket/4352969/cooper-v-the-trustees-of-the-college-of-the-holy-cross/Federal court records cost money (a lot of money) to look at on line in the PACER system. PACER users can allow a non profit service called RECAP to upload documents that they buy. You can look for free at the documents that say "Download PDF." Of course, it is entirely possible that BG's new problem has nothing to do with the old one about which we only know the player's side as the College never had to publically address the issues. Cooper was player #2. The sequence as i remember it was as follows. Player #1 (or her parents) complained to HC about CBG's courtside conduct during a game with respect to their daughter. HC apparently investigated; IIRC, Cooper was herself asked about the alleged conduct re: player #1. HC's investigation was apparently low-key. and without visible result. At a subsequent game, Cooper's parents were in attendance as was an assistant director of HC athletics. Cooper's parents allegedly observed conduct by Gibbons similar to what allegedly occurred against Player #1. I can't remember whether Cooper's parents also complained to HC, but I tend to think not. Cooper subsequently withdrew from school and enrolled at NYU. In the lawsuit, Cooper asked HC to produce the video from two games where the alleged conduct occurred. There is no indication that HC ever did, nor did HC ever refer to the videos as having exonerated Gibbons. Cooper's parents also alleged that an assistant director of HC athletics observed Gibbons' conduct; the Assistant Director became a named defendant. As the PACER record indicates, the plaintiffs were allowed to join at least one member of the BoT who was a resident of NY as a defendant. As it was, there were numerous members of the BoT who resided in NY, including the chair of the athletics committee of the BoT. Having a New York resident as a defendant allowed the case to be moved from Federal court back to state court. My sense is that HC folded soon thereafter. At the time, responsibility under HC's process for investigating and adjudicating misconduct claims made against non-faculty rested with the head of Administrative Services and Facilities (or a title similar to that). This was probably the result of narrow thinking on the part of the college; i.e., the college expected any misconduct would be between staff employees. As it was, the athletics department fell under this rubric, and player #1's claim against CBG was investigated by the head of administrative services, who I believe was/is a long-time Worcester native. IMO, a badly conceived and ultimately flawed process at least with respect to addressing allegations of misconduct by the athletics staff. After Cooper, I will note (again IIRC) that Fr. B appointed a lawyer as his chief assistant, and HC's general counsel moved on.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 1, 2019 13:02:32 GMT -5
For different reasons, I think both BU and HC sell themselves as schools almost as much as the basketball coach or program sells itself. In the case of a girl from Medway committed to BU, it's a good school, D-1 in a trendy hip big city that is still local enough to have your mother drive up, get your laundry and then bring it back all washed and ironed in a couple of days with a fresh baked container of cookies for the team. In Holy Cross' case, it's Catholic, Jesuit, small, highly regarded academically, D-1, etc. Keeping Coach Mac if the team responds well will also provide continuity. How many HC WBB recruits make positioning themselves for the WNBA their top priority anyway?
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 1, 2019 13:07:04 GMT -5
The prior litigation can be followed here. www.courtlistener.com/docket/4352969/cooper-v-the-trustees-of-the-college-of-the-holy-cross/Federal court records cost money (a lot of money) to look at on line in the PACER system. PACER users can allow a non profit service called RECAP to upload documents that they buy. You can look for free at the documents that say "Download PDF." Of course, it is entirely possible that BG's new problem has nothing to do with the old one about which we only know the player's side as the College never had to publically address the issues. Cooper was player #2. The sequence as i remember it was as follows. Player #1 (or her parents) complained to HC about CBG's courtside conduct during a game with respect to their daughter. HC apparently investigated; IIRC, Cooper was herself asked about the alleged conduct re: player #1. HC's investigation was apparently low-key. and without visible result. At a subsequent game, Cooper's parents were in attendance as was an assistant director of HC athletics. Cooper's parents allegedly observed conduct by Gibbons similar to what allegedly occurred against Player #1. I can't remember whether Cooper's parents also complained to HC, but I tend to think not. Cooper subsequently withdrew from school and enrolled at NYU. In the lawsuit, Cooper asked HC to produce the video from two games where the alleged conduct occurred. There is no indication that HC ever did, nor did HC ever refer to the videos as having exonerated Gibbons. Cooper's parents also alleged that an assistant director of HC athletics observed Gibbons' conduct; the Assistant Director became a named defendant. As the PACER record indicates, the plaintiffs were allowed to join at least one member of the BoT who was a resident of NY as a defendant. As it was, there were numerous members of the BoT who resided in NY, including the chair of the athletics committee of the BoT. Having a New York resident as a defendant allowed the case to be moved from Federal court back to state court. My sense is that HC folded soon thereafter. At the time, responsibility under HC's process for investigating and adjudicating misconduct claims made against non-faculty rested with the head of Administrative Services and Facilities (or a title similar to that). This was probably the result of narrow thinking on the part of the college; i.e., the college expected any misconduct would be between staff employees. As it was, the athletics department fell under this rubric, and player #1's claim against CBG was investigated by the head of administrative services, who I believe was/is a long-time Worcester native. IMO, a badly conceived and ultimately flawed process at least with respect to addressing allegations of misconduct by the athletics staff. After Cooper, I will note (again IIRC) that Fr. B appointed a lawyer as his chief assistant, and HC's general counsel moved on.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 1, 2019 13:08:07 GMT -5
Fascinating. Any guesstimate as to the amount of the settlement or how it would be calculated?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 1, 2019 13:15:45 GMT -5
Fascinating. Any guesstimate as to the amount of the settlement or how it would be calculated? I believe Cooper sought reimbursement for the cost of attendance for her two (or three?) years of matriculation at NYU --on the basis, because of Gibbon's alleged conduct, that she had to forego her junior and senior years of attendance at HC on scollie, plus considerable attorneys fees. She did not seek any tort damages related to the conduct, nor punitive damages.
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Post by alum on Feb 1, 2019 15:04:40 GMT -5
Fascinating. Any guesstimate as to the amount of the settlement or how it would be calculated? She did seek compensatory damages for physical injuries (not very serious nor requiring treatment,) emotional distress and punitive damages. One of the issues had the case been litigated would have been whose law applied, MA or NY, as to damages. There is really no way of knowing the potential value of the case nor the settlement amount because we really don't know any of the details nor the strength or weaknesses of either side's case. In fact, I don't even think that they had really begun discovery so they did not likely know either. I expressed at the time that these type of cases get settled because neither side really wants to take a hard look at themselves. Even if BG did nothing actionable, there would have been uncomfortable depositions of him, his assistants, other players, and administrators. The case also settled because of some funky procedural questions. Cooper brought the case in state court, the defendants removed it to federal court under diversity jurisdiction, the plaintiff sought to have it go back to state court and when that looked like it might not work to add individual trustees who lived in NY as defendants to defeat diversity. The judge ruled that they could do that. The plaintiff's problem was that she probably could not allege in good faith anything that would make the individual trustees liable and would have been subject to sanctions if she tried. That's when the case settled. Given that the College had some defenses and no discovery appears to have been done, I doubt that it was a whole lot of money, but who knows. If the College really wanted to avoid discovery and legal fees, they might have had to pay.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Feb 1, 2019 15:12:40 GMT -5
The school should tell us what happened. Although I personally wanted to know what happened with Charles and CO. from the men's team, they are students and under the supervision and care of the college, so if HC says none of my business, so be it. But Gibbons is an adult and employee-- the public has a right to know!
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Post by timholycross on Feb 1, 2019 15:29:45 GMT -5
The school should tell us what happened. Although I personally wanted to know what happened with Charles and CO. from the men's team, they are students and under the supervision and care of the college, so if HC says none of my business, so be it. But Gibbons is an adult and employee-- the public has a right to know! Now that Cohen is a junior at a Division 2 school and not setting the world on fire, I regret what could have been less and less. His track record seems to indicate he wasn't going to be a standout at a higher level. He starts and averages 10 points a game and 4 rebounds.
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Post by Tom on Feb 1, 2019 15:31:58 GMT -5
The sequence as i remember it was as follows. Player #1 (or her parents) complained to HC about CBG's courtside conduct during a game with respect to their daughter. HC apparently investigated; IIRC, Cooper was herself asked about the alleged conduct re: player #1. HC's investigation was apparently low-key. and without visible result. At a subsequent game, Cooper's parents were in attendance as was an assistant director of HC athletics. Cooper's parents allegedly observed conduct by Gibbons similar to what allegedly occurred against Player #1. I can't remember whether Cooper's parents also complained to HC, but I tend to think not. The fact that this whole thing started based on Coach Gibbons game conduct is what originally led me to believe that incident was garbage. From what I have seen from Coach Gibbons' game behavior, it is totally inappropriate for high tea with the queen. However, anyone who found it overly abusive is a little too thin skinned. The assistant AD sitting there and not finding anything wrong with Coach Gibbon's behavior helps validate my opinion I will repeat my speculation that the lack of merit in the prior allegations combined with the school's swift and severe action yesterday means the two incidents are unrelated
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Post by timholycross on Feb 1, 2019 15:37:47 GMT -5
I always thought he was over the top w/regard to the officials but not the players.
By over the top, I mean that he got away with a lot that would have gotten him rung up in men's games. Maybe because the crowds tend to be slimmer and less chance of inciting the fans; they let the women's coaches blow off more steam, I don't know.
The last 2-3 years when I've watched he doesn't seem as animated in that regard.
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Post by purplehaze on Feb 1, 2019 15:53:01 GMT -5
we don't know what happens at practice and in the locker room - misbehavior can happen in more places than during a game
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Post by Tom on Feb 1, 2019 16:40:04 GMT -5
we don't know what happens at practice and in the locker room - misbehavior can happen in more places than during a game True enough. However the prior incident, which may or may not have any bearing on yesterday's announcement, was initiated by a parent's complaint about his behavior during a game. Maybe they were more alert after hearing comments about practice from their daughter, but Phreek's recount sparked memories that basically coincide with what he wrote - that in game behavior was the impetus for what became public
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Post by hcpride on Feb 1, 2019 16:40:19 GMT -5
The sequence as i remember it was as follows. Player #1 (or her parents) complained to HC about CBG's courtside conduct during a game with respect to their daughter. HC apparently investigated; IIRC, Cooper was herself asked about the alleged conduct re: player #1. HC's investigation was apparently low-key. and without visible result. At a subsequent game, Cooper's parents were in attendance as was an assistant director of HC athletics. Cooper's parents allegedly observed conduct by Gibbons similar to what allegedly occurred against Player #1. I can't remember whether Cooper's parents also complained to HC, but I tend to think not. The fact that this whole thing started based on Coach Gibbons game conduct is what originally led me to believe that incident was garbage. From what I have seen from Coach Gibbons' game behavior, it is totally inappropriate for high tea with the queen. However, anyone who found it overly abusive is a little too thin skinned. The assistant AD sitting there and not finding anything wrong with Coach Gibbon's behavior helps validate my opinion I will repeat my speculation that the lack of merit in the prior allegations combined with the school's swift and severe action yesterday means the two incidents are unrelated I don't necessarily disagree...but I do think that a middle aged male coach screaming at a young woman with a hand grabbing (or holding) her shoulder on the sidelines ( here) might not sit well with a parent or even a jury nowadays. Back in my day that was called coaching - times have changed. Certainly a very bad look now and it is within the realm of possibility something along those lines was captured on videotape w/Gibbons and Cooper. (I think HC may have issued a statement concerning 'lack of merit' prior to settling the case; I don't know of any judicial findings on the matter.)
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Post by alum on Feb 1, 2019 17:22:24 GMT -5
The fact that this whole thing started based on Coach Gibbons game conduct is what originally led me to believe that incident was garbage. From what I have seen from Coach Gibbons' game behavior, it is totally inappropriate for high tea with the queen. However, anyone who found it overly abusive is a little too thin skinned. The assistant AD sitting there and not finding anything wrong with Coach Gibbon's behavior helps validate my opinion I will repeat my speculation that the lack of merit in the prior allegations combined with the school's swift and severe action yesterday means the two incidents are unrelated I don't necessarily disagree...but I do think that a middle aged male coach screaming at a young woman with a hand grabbing (or holding) her shoulder on the sidelines ( here) might not sit well with a parent or even a jury nowadays. Back in my day that was called coaching - times have changed. Certainly a very bad look now and it is within the realm of possibility something along those lines was captured on videotape w/Gibbons and Cooper. (I think HC may have issued a statement concerning 'lack of merit' prior to settling the case; I don't know of any judicial findings on the matter.)The College announced that its investigation had cleared BG, there was no adjudication of the allegations and the settlement was confidential so we have no idea of how much was paid
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 1, 2019 20:13:06 GMT -5
I always thought he was over the top w/regard to the officials but not the players. By over the top, I mean that he got away with a lot that would have gotten him rung up in men's games. Maybe because the crowds tend to be slimmer and less chance of inciting the fans; they let the women's coaches blow off more steam, I don't know. The last 2-3 years when I've watched he doesn't seem as animated in that regard. I recall Sarasota posting after CBG returned to coaching after his voluntary 'suspension' that his behavior during games was more subdued. 'sota followed the women's team much more than I, so I took his before and after observations as credible. This photo from a game at UConn is from a website that chronicles the failure to act of Catholic bishops. ______________________________ I think it fair to say that if the suspension was related to a violation of NCAA rules, the college would have said so.
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Post by HC13 on Feb 1, 2019 21:00:09 GMT -5
So, in other words, you don't know nothing.
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bkny
Junior
Posts: 39
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Post by bkny on Feb 1, 2019 21:16:25 GMT -5
Ridiculous! —I can find an image/photo of just about anybody and ‘spin it’.— I’m NOT an alum but have been a huge fan of CBG and his teams for decades.—Why? — his PASSION—-That guy bled purple for over 35 years.—Let’s take a step back.—-Who did you want him to act like? Crazy Geno or Cheatin’ John Wooden? His program has always been respectable and bottom line, his kids graduate.—Instead of always being so negative, find a way to SUPPORT HCwbb in the future.—I KNOW prospects read these posts and I KNOW they are a turn off.—Go Lady CRUSADERS!
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 1, 2019 21:49:27 GMT -5
bkny, I assume you subscribe to the maxim "believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see?" Perhaps that is good advice until and if we ever get the full story.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 1, 2019 21:49:45 GMT -5
And the team has lookes pretty good this year. Certainly better than the hockey and mbb programs. Not so. That shows the magic of a very weak OOC schedule. It makes a team look better than it is if people look at the W-L record. Using Massey, the HC women rank #222 for the year, while the men are #200. Both have the same PL record.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 2, 2019 5:00:42 GMT -5
Forgetting Gibbons for a second, as a college president nowadays I would tell any male coaching a women’s sport to never touch a player under any circumstances and never single out and scream at a player under any circumstances. Nothing good comes from these two actions. And some awfully bad things can come from these two actions. I would do the same as a high school principal.
(This is not to say various male coaches , some very established, might not do this sort of thing while coaching female college and high school teams. And , as in all generalities, there might be exceptions.)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 2, 2019 6:39:26 GMT -5
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 2, 2019 7:38:43 GMT -5
Kelly Greenberg, Gibbons' long-time assistant during the "Glory Days."
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Post by Tom on Feb 2, 2019 9:54:10 GMT -5
Forgetting Gibbons for a second, as a college president nowadays I would tell any male coaching a women’s sport to never touch a player under any circumstances and never single out and scream at a player under any circumstances. Nothing good comes from these two actions. And some awfully bad things can come from these two actions. I would do the same as a high school principal. (This is not to say various male coaches , some very established, might not do this sort of thing while coaching female college and high school teams. And , as in all generalities, there might be exceptions.) Sadly, this might be true. Sometimes a player should be singled out or screamed at because they're just not listening. It's not the only one, but it is definitely one of the tools of the coaching trade. No tool should be overused, but I believe there is a time and place for every tool in the tool box. There are absolutely coaches that overuse this tool. There are coaches who do bad things under the guise of doing their jobs. Because of this, we are left with the sad but perhaps necessary truth that watching your backside is more important than doing the best job possible, because something might be misinterpreted when taken out of context
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Post by HC92 on Feb 2, 2019 12:06:40 GMT -5
Most people here have absolutely no idea what happened either with the recent suspension or the allegations from Cooper several years ago so let’s stick to facts. My lack of confidence in the administration at HC at the moment gives me pause about reaching any conclusions about Gibbons based on the school’s decision to suspend him. Facts could well emerge that will help me reach my own conclusion but I haven’t seen any yet.
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