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Post by Dean Wormer on Feb 2, 2019 14:47:11 GMT -5
To refresh everyone's memory ... from the board rules:
While I'm generally fairly loose with that rule, when it comes to players, coaches, staff and their lives I'm more strict with enforcement. Tom89 has provided nothing other than saying he knows what happened.
Unless he decides to post how he knows what happened and how that led to the suspension or posts his real name so he will be accountable for the information, it's a rumor.
Therefore, his post and any references to it have been deleted.
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Post by purplehaze on Feb 2, 2019 15:39:48 GMT -5
Thank you, Dean
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Post by tom89 on Feb 2, 2019 18:53:23 GMT -5
Dean, Thank you for the clarification on the crossports posting rules. In time, the circumstances with hopefully become public. Ironically, my intention was to offer facts on the matter to dispel rumors. I do understand that certain topics such as this should not divulge too much personal information. Therefore, I’ll refrain from further public posting here.
For the record, I’m a friend of the Gibbons Family. Like all of us, Coach Gibbon’s is not perfect but he tries to do the right things in life. It’s also a pleasure to speak with Coach Mac’s parents during the women’s games. Good luck to Coach Mac and the team for the remainder of the season.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 2, 2019 19:08:26 GMT -5
If you ever get a chance to see a documentary called "No Look Pass" about a Harvard women's player, take a look at it. Kathy Delaney Smith, the Harvard coach, doesn't come off well at all. One particular halftime speech was a complete nutty. She's still there. Never heard anything about her being suspended, reprimanded, etc.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 2, 2019 19:31:53 GMT -5
/\ /\ No doubt there are all manner of sideline and locker room (and practice court) antics by various coaches. Brian Kelly was apparently slammed by his admins for going after an assistant (and yelling at his players) during televised games...he is now a changed man on the ND sidelines. Just not a good look any more. (Separate and apart from the obviously terrible optics of a male coach yelling at female players up close...I've seen just two women's games this year and I really didn't see Gibbons acting in this manner at all...so this is not directed at him)
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Post by alumni111 on Feb 2, 2019 20:05:19 GMT -5
The College must explain why this action was necessary. That BG's bio was removed from the WBB Web site begs the question, was this a suspension or a removal? Too many people who are invested in The College and this program deserve more than what was revealed on Thursday. FWIW, other than Ann, the other coaches are in their first, second, and third years at HC, respectively. BG deserves better.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 2, 2019 20:09:35 GMT -5
,,,,,, Finally, a 2016 letter to the President of the NCAA by a sports law attorney (also a professor at Marquette Law) which cites Gibbons, and the Boston Univ women's coach who resigned in 2014. The letter urges the NCAA to establish standards of conduct. www.athleticbusiness.com/images/Blogs/2016/Jason/Jun/NCAALtr.pdf If you ever get a chance to see a documentary called "No Look Pass" about a Harvard women's player, take a look at it. Kathy Delaney Smith, the Harvard coach, doesn't come off well at all. One particular halftime speech was a complete nutty. She's still there. Never heard anything about her being suspended, reprimanded, etc. Tim, not yet on YouTube, but I did find the plotline here. harvardmagazine.com/2011/11/points-and-shootsMy nephew played for Harvard basketball in the same general timeframe as Emily Tay played for the women's team. The on-court demeanor of the former Crimson men's coach was 180 degrees different than his locker room demeanor. He also did two camps with Coach K., and said that he found Coach K's off-court demeanor to be 180 degrees different than his on-count demeanor FWIW, the 'intensity' of the former men's coach seemed to lead to many / most / all-but-one? of the roster coming to believe they knew more about hoops than the coach.
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Post by tom89 on Feb 2, 2019 20:37:19 GMT -5
Alumni111, The bio was on the website yesterday. Interestingly, Coach Gibbons was not listed on today’s Gameday Program. Coach Mac and the assistants were obviously listed as usual. An aspect that was troublesome was watching interim AD Sullivan gleefully bounding down the stairs and heading towards the locker room after the game. He didn’t do that after the wins over Boston University and Army. We’re all grateful and happy for the team today. He certainly has reason to be happy, and maybe I’m overreacting, but his actions, in my opinion anyway, seemed boorish. I agree with your thoughts on getting justification from the administration. Hang in there and keep praying.
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Post by purplehaze on Feb 2, 2019 20:50:14 GMT -5
Tom, we appreciate your acknowledgment of being a family friend and therefore rooting for BG, but you’re taking it too far by questioning interim AD Sullivan’s motives in congratulating the team. Right or wrong, the circumstances surrounding this game were tough on our players and coaches
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Post by alumni111 on Feb 2, 2019 20:55:04 GMT -5
Sadly, it's the same at all colleges. They pelt you with information on all the wonderful things they're doing, and ask for your engagement and money, but when something controversial happens, they draw the curtain. Administrators aren't The College. Alums, students, and the parents who foot an incredible bill for sometimes multiple sons and daughters, are The College. Whatever the issue, we deserve answers. I'm the son of a '46, preceded by his brother '42, have two cousins who went through and another relative there now. I participate as an alum in various ways, and I want transparency whenever possible. In the case of BG, it should be possible.
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Post by tom89 on Feb 2, 2019 21:11:59 GMT -5
Purplehaze, I agree that the circumstances associated with today’s game were very tough on all involved. Coach Mac and the team handled the adversity very well. Your constructive criticism of my take on the interim AD’s reaction is fine with me. Like you, I’ll continue to root for more HC victories.
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Post by lou on Feb 2, 2019 21:13:18 GMT -5
Like with any personnel issue, the employer will never release details to the public. How fair would that be to the employee if they did?
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 3, 2019 0:41:41 GMT -5
A few fond memories of CBG:
1) Recruiting and developing a Worcester girl from Holy Name HS, Amy O'Brien, who was probably the best overall WBB player in Holy Cross history, perhaps the best female athlete in school history.
2) The many times he had Worcester's Bishop Daniel Reilly - one of the friendliest people, in or out of the cloth - I have ever met, on the bench. And the undefeated record the team had with him on the pine.
3) The banter between BG and "Mr.E" Bob Fouracre. A typical post game interview would have Bill saying to his kids over the radio from somewhere in Pennsylvania: "Say your prayers and go to bed Bobby and Billy. I'll be home late and we'll watch the Patriots tomorrow."
4) The decades of support WBB has given to the Mercy Centre, a division of Catholic Charities in Worcester that does wonderful work with developmentally disabled citizens, and Bill Gibbon's passionate advocacy when the program was threatened with cutbacks.
5) The long running Holy Cross Women's Basketball TV show on local Channel 3. Originally there were TV shows for both Men's and Women's BB, but the men's show withered and died due to lack of advertising. BG went out and sold or schmoozed for ads from local businesses to keep the women's show going and keep HC in front of the public in a positive light.
6) "Keep hope alive!" is a slogan from the 1988 Presidential Campaign of a particular Reverend, but it also comes to mind about the many years that the overall HC athletic program was struggling like it is now, but we had one sport that was usually winning the PL and going to the NCAA Tourney, and that was WBB. After Duffner and before Willard we needed at least one sport to keep hope alive and that was WBB led by Bill Gibbons.
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Post by alumni111 on Feb 3, 2019 3:41:26 GMT -5
I understand, Lou, but how fair is it to an employee when he/she is "suspended" and there is no real explanation, allowing rumor to fill the void? At the very least, The College at some point, the sooner the better, needs to explain IF the suspension can be rescinded. If not, then call it what it is. I would think a coach of 33 years also would want the cause presented so it either can be challenged or accepted.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 3, 2019 5:07:44 GMT -5
Like with any personnel issue, the employer will never release details to the public. How fair would that be to the employee if they did? Exactly. I do believe the employee may be free to publicly state his/her side of the story (may not be the wisest course of action, may not please the college, and this is assuming an absence of a confidentiality agreement). I am not a lawyer and I am just guessing.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 3, 2019 7:20:27 GMT -5
111, I am confident that the College has said as much as it can. And while Bill Gibbons probably has no such strictures legally, it probably falls under this saying:
As long as everyone remains silent, the "suspension" euphemism serves the purpose. If Bill is looking for another position elsewhere being suspended certainly hurts but effectively being fired hurts even more. He can give his own side of the story without the College rebuttal when talking to potential employers.
That he has been suspended for the remainder of his contract appears to me to be an agreement between the Coach and the College. He agrees to not coach again but get paid the rest of his contract and not be publicly announced as fired (and buying out his contract) and the College gets what it wants - his removal - without a public lawsuit.
Otherwise, why wouldn't Bill publicly state his own position? He is well loved in the Worcester community and would undoubtedly have at least some support, probably a lot.
I am not saying BG is guilty of anything and not supporting or criticizing the College. I am just putting out a possible scenario based on my many decades of being in management and executive positions and having worked with HR and legal departments in two different corporations in termination situations. We were always told in both companies if a potential employer asked about a fired employee, we were essentially only allowed to give "name, rank and serial number" as saying anything else could lead to a potential lawsuit of our company.
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Post by tom89 on Feb 3, 2019 8:53:54 GMT -5
Thankfully Coach Gibbons has lots of support in the local community. Word on the street has people in the coffee shops, local radio and in the faith community “shaking their heads” and wondering what the heck is going on at Holy Cross. Obviously he has his detractors, but all of the support that he’s received helps now and going forward. Coach Mac and her family have a good support system too and local community support as well.
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Post by joshua on Feb 3, 2019 10:42:16 GMT -5
Coach gibbons is the best coach and I would like to know what the heck is going on. I BACK Coach GIBBONS 100%.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 3, 2019 10:50:18 GMT -5
Here's a question I'm curious about especially since my daughter just got done playing high school ball.
Do the parents of the players at Holy Cross have anyone's ear? If my daughter was good enough to be a D1 athlete, I wouldn't think me or my wife would have any line of communication to the coaching staff or HCAA at all except in the most extreme of circumstances and/or the coaching staff reached out to us about something.
What I'm trying to say is I hope that "helicopter parenthood" hasn't extended to the college level and hope it doesn't have anything to do with what's going on with Bill Gibbons.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 3, 2019 11:12:46 GMT -5
Welcome, Joshua. I am sure your loyalty to Coach Gibbons is appreciated by him and his family. However, a little confused that you don't "know what the heck is going on" yet you back him 100%. I hope your loyalty is well placed.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 3, 2019 11:32:08 GMT -5
The sudden departures of CTG and CBG we're presented to the public much differently by HC. Is this mainly a difference in style and technique between NP and Brendan Sullivan? (I'd use his inititals, but...)
The verbiage suggests a substanative difference, but is there one? This is Mr. S's first real introduction to the community. So far I am not doing cartwheels.
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Post by Ray on Feb 3, 2019 11:37:45 GMT -5
Gilmore was dismissed from his position, not for a "personnel matter" but for traditional reasons about performance, W-L record, direction of the program.
Gibbons isn't (officially) dismissed, just suspended. We know there's a personnel issue in play, but little more than that. Still, that's enough to distinguish it from the Gilmore firing, or the Milan Brown firing, or... (I could go on)
I don't see how Gilmore and Gibbons situations are remotely related. It's not a "stylistic" difference between Pine and Sullivan. We don't have details, but the circumstances are entirely different.
If you want a comparison to this Gibbons matter, look at the timeline of the men's lax coach's departure last year. That's more analogous to the current situation.
This whole matter is indeed a tall order for the interim AD. But I'd gently suggest that you don't have nearly enough information to pass judgment on how he's handling it.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 3, 2019 11:38:01 GMT -5
I would think that CBC signed off on what Brendan Sullivan said about his LOA, Bill Gibbons did not for any number of reasons. I'm sure in both cases if not done correctly HC could have been sued and Gibbons' suit in particular would be for a non-trivial amount.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 3, 2019 11:38:03 GMT -5
Uh, yes I guess the internal investigation is a substantative difference. But was disclosing that necessary? The effect of both dismissals is similar, but to me CBG's reputation is significantly more sullied.
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Post by Ray on Feb 3, 2019 11:42:02 GMT -5
Uh, yes I guess the internal investigation is a substantative difference. But was disclosing that necessary? The effect of both dismissals is similar, but to me CBG's reputation is significantly more sullied. 1. Again, at this point Gibbons is not dismissed. He's suspended.
2. Once again, you're grasping in the dark about the details here. I know none of the facts of the accusation or investigation. As such, it's entirely possible that saying more would really be what "sullies BG's reputation", and they're doing him a favor by being tight-lipped.
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