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Post by alum on Mar 1, 2019 8:58:00 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2019/03/01/sports/youth-tackle-football-ban.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=HomepageI doubt that anything will come of this, but maybe it will spur the football people into action. I would think, given the declining numbers, that they should consider going to flag football through sixth grade. Maybe more people would sign their kids up in the early grades if it was flag only and they would keep those kids when tackling happens later on. I have always also thought that one of the problems with youth football is the fact that, at least where I live, they start nightly practice on August 1st. I know parents that figured their second graders didn't need to do that. If it is only flag football, I would imagine that they would not have to start practice quite so early as there would be fewer skills to teach. As to the legislator who asked if we should ban hockey and soccer too, the only response is that those sports have taken some steps to reduce the risk of concussion. There is no checking in hockey until bantams (eighth grade for most kids.) Soccer has eliminated heading of the ball for younger ages.
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Post by crusader12 on Mar 1, 2019 10:13:01 GMT -5
This state is beyond incompetent when it comes to this sort of stuff.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 1, 2019 10:20:57 GMT -5
The Mass legislature gets an idea (true that is startling to some already) and runs with it..far too soon in many cases. They do not seem to take the time to look at all possible consequences. My favorite is when they decided to raise funds by taxing Rev War reenactors who portrayed British soldiers as "agents of a foreign government." The reenactors told them that they would not pay such taxes and they could do Lexngton and Concord reenactments without any British soldiers. The legislation was done away with the same day.   Perhaps this time they will do things correctly with proper research. I will not hold my breath. |
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Post by hc87 on Mar 1, 2019 10:32:42 GMT -5
The Mass legislature gets an idea (true that is startling to some already) and runs with it..far too soon in many cases. They do not seem to take the time to look at all possible consequences. My favorite is when they decided to raise funds by taxing Rev War reenactors who portrayed British soldiers as "agents of a foreign government." The reenactors told them that they would not pay such taxes and they could do Lexngton and Concord reenactments without any British soldiers. The legislation was done away with the same day. Perhaps this time they will do things correctly with proper research. I will not hold my breath. There are about a 1,000 jokes/ironies in there somewhere....  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 10:38:33 GMT -5
It just blows my mind that people allow the government to dictate their choices.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 1, 2019 10:42:09 GMT -5
More and more parents are holding kids out of youth football due to the risk of serious injury. That is certainly a parent's prerogative. Tell everyone that youth football is banned and you will see kids setting up their own tackle games in playgrounds and fields without adult supervision or pads of any kind. Is that really "better?"
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Post by lou on Mar 1, 2019 11:06:33 GMT -5
More and more parents are holding kids out of youth football due to the risk of serious injury. That is certainly a parent's prerogative. Tell everyone that youth football is banned and you will see kids setting up their own tackle games in playgrounds and fields without adult supervision or pads of any kind. Is that really "better?" Yes |
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 1, 2019 11:13:20 GMT -5
Why? In what way is that better?
True, that was how I spent my youth and we seldom had serious injuries, but I felt (IMHO) the risk of such injuries today is greater. "Banning" something may make it appear more desirable to kids, the old "forbidden fruit" story.
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 1, 2019 16:05:22 GMT -5
They are not over coached in fact they coach themselves
They figure out how to agree on rules and play by those rules.
They figure out how to officiate themselves and generally act honestly within the rules they establish.
They figure out how to resolve disagreements.
They figure out how to play when things are not optimal - what do we do when 7 guys show up to play and we only have the black top tennis court to play on
And that’s just a start.
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Post by gks on Mar 2, 2019 17:30:39 GMT -5
FWIW A number of years ago an orthopedist MD relative told me that in his view young kids should not be playing tackle football. He believed that as their bones were still developing ,tackle football could be quite damaging to their long term development. He was dead set against pee wee football. Just my guess, but maybe flag football up to 12 years old then tackle football. As governments do routinely pass public health laws, legislating on kids tackle football easily falls within the traditional government purview. LoveHC For every doctor that says no I can find one that says football is fine. Kids wrestle and tackle each other every day and have been for years - and with no equipment. States need to stop telling parents how to do their job. |
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Post by moose1970 on Mar 2, 2019 19:08:07 GMT -5
don't know if this counts but my neighbor has decided to have his kid focus his career on pee wee football while the kid recovers from tommy john surgery and then get back into little league.
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Post by gks on Mar 3, 2019 7:39:17 GMT -5
gks Your comment speaks for itself. By the way where did you get your degree in medicine? Obviously, physicians may have differing views. I'm sure that your views on public health laws would be quite interesting to read. I guess that you are a great fan of watching Pee Wee f-ball. Well, to each his own. Peace. LoveHC PS The physical problem of kids football is not limited to on - field injuries. The damage to growing bones and tendons may be more nuanced, long term and not discernible until later in life. Never said I was a doctor nor play one on TV. However I have spoken with doctors, including my son's, who have no problem with him playing football. Kids can get seriously hurt doing everything. Should we ban bike riding? Should we ban tag? Should we ban tree climbing? My biggest problem in all of this is the state telling me how to parent. I live in MA....they've got other more pressing problems to deal with. |
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Post by joe on Mar 3, 2019 8:22:59 GMT -5
Banning pee wee football sounds great, but I’d not let my son play junior high or high school football without having been exposed to contact earlier. Just seems like a set up not only for a conclusion, but paralysis. Having coached 5-7 year olds in tackle football, I don’t recall a single instance of a concerning hit, probably due to the fact that the age and weight limits/stratification system and generally common sense coaching prevent this. I think the move has some PC elements to it but I’m keeping an open mind. Right now my son is focused on other sports and that’s fine with me.
And I also think it is ABSURD that football starts in early August. I will not deprive my family and my children of a normal summer vacation just to play pee wee football. When I was a kid we started the first week of school and that’s how it should be today. Youth sports are completely out of control. Completely. AAU in the second grade? Yup.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 3, 2019 9:32:31 GMT -5
Not in favor of state governments banning tackle football. Everything kids do has risk from riding their bikes to skiing to jumping off the couch to playing “manhunt” in the pitch dark in the woods to all organized sports (hockey and soccer certainly create lots of head trauma in kids). It’s up to the parents to make the right decisions for their kids. Flag football is becoming very popular as an option for kids which is great. Gives parents another option. Generally speaking, government should not be in the business of dictating the athletic activities in which kids (or adults) can engage.
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Post by gks on Mar 3, 2019 11:55:45 GMT -5
gks To each his own. I'm old enough to remember a time when many people were totally against public health laws/regulations of any kind from the polio vaccine to fluoridated water to seat belts, motor cyclist helmets to food labelling and smoking restrictions, to any government initiated public health laws. Don't forget the current anti-vaccine groups. Some believed that government initiatives from fluoridation to vaccinations were harmful despite the scientific consensus to the contrary. Many viewed these laws as an interference in one's right to live their lives and raise their children as they see fit. The refrain of interference is commonly followed by the complaint of where does the government stop? Gotta' stop the "nanny state" from taking over our lives. Is restricting young children to flag football an unwarranted interference in parental choice, a bridge too far? Or, is it an enlightened use of the government's role in providing for the common good, the protection and safety of our children? This is an interesting question. I suspect that PeeWee football will die a natural death on its own without gov't regs. since many parents are alarmed by its risks both immediate and long term(eg a heightened risk of arthritis later in life) as they see it. I'm interested to see how this issue plays out in the great commonwealth of our beloved alma mater. Please keep us informed as you see fit on Crossports. Thank you. LoveHC I would hardly call Massachusetts great, though I love living here. We are talking about a state that just recently legalized marijuana and is seriously debating 'safe' areas for addicts to inject themselves with drugs....but youth football is bad. |
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Post by moose1970 on Mar 3, 2019 12:46:30 GMT -5
gks To each his own. I'm old enough to remember a time when many people were totally against public health laws/regulations of any kind from the polio vaccine to fluoridated water to seat belts, motor cyclist helmets to food labelling and smoking restrictions, to any government initiated public health laws. Don't forget the current anti-vaccine groups. Some believed that government initiatives from fluoridation to vaccinations were harmful despite the scientific consensus to the contrary. Many viewed these laws as an interference in one's right to live their lives and raise their children as they see fit. The refrain of interference is commonly followed by the complaint of where does the government stop? Gotta' stop the "nanny state" from taking over our lives. Is restricting young children to flag football an unwarranted interference in parental choice, a bridge too far? Or, is it an enlightened use of the government's role in providing for the common good, the protection and safety of our children? This is an interesting question. I suspect that PeeWee football will die a natural death on its own without gov't regs. since many parents are alarmed by its risks both immediate and long term(eg a heightened risk of arthritis later in life) as they see it. I'm interested to see how this issue plays out in the great commonwealth of our beloved alma mater. Please keep us informed as you see fit on Crossports. Thank you. LoveHC at the very least parents who elect to allow their children to play tackle football, etc should sign a waiver/release form setting forth the risks involved. that way the child may later have a claim against the parents for child abuse. |
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Post by moose1970 on Mar 3, 2019 14:58:32 GMT -5
Banning pee wee football sounds great, but I’d not let my son play junior high or high school football without having been exposed to contact earlier. Just seems like a set up not only for a conclusion, but paralysis. Having coached 5-7 year olds in tackle football, I don’t recall a single instance of a concerning hit, probably due to the fact that the age and weight limits/stratification system and generally common sense coaching prevent this. I think the move has some PC elements to it but I’m keeping an open mind. Right now my son is focused on other sports and that’s fine with me. And I also think it is ABSURD that football starts in early August. I will not deprive my family and my children of a normal summer vacation just to play pee wee football. When I was a kid we started the first week of school and that’s how it should be today. Youth sports are completely out of control. Completely. AAU in the second grade? Yup. "Youth sports are completely out of control." thanks primarily to completely out of control parents. |
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Post by HC92 on Mar 3, 2019 15:47:12 GMT -5
Amen about the sports being out of control. Way too much too early. Lots of people making lots of money convincing parents of very young kids that there is value in having young kids play AAU or Premier or Academy or whatever year round at a cost of thousands of dollars a year and a lot of missed childhood time and strain on families. I was with a guy the other day whose kid wasn’t old enough to put a sentence together but he was already paying big money for that kid to play at the local soccer “academy.”
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Post by HC92 on Mar 3, 2019 15:51:37 GMT -5
Right after I typed that, I went to Facebook and the first post was from a high school friend. He posted a pic of his son playing a soccer game this weekend in a snowstorm for “Hoosier FC” in Indiana. Get a grip, people.
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Post by sader1970 on Mar 3, 2019 16:02:14 GMT -5
Moose, knowing you were a football player, a couple of questions: 1. when (what age) did you start playing tackle football? 2. were your parents encouraging you to play? neutral on your playing? actively tried to discourage you? 3. did you get any injuries, especially head injuries (not trying to imply anything here! ) prior to your days as a Crusader football player? 4. don't recall if you have any kids - boys - but would you actively discourage them from playing football? I know we have a number of former (and younger than Moose) football alums who post here. Feel free to answer these questions - or not. |
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Post by joe on Mar 3, 2019 16:42:01 GMT -5
AAU is totally out of control. But what can you do? In a lot of neighborhoods the kids don’t hang out a park anymore and have the whole Lord of the Flies experience. I think I would learned more than my kids about basketball growing up in North Jersey just playing at the park for hours on end, various kids coming and going. Now we travel an hour to get 10 min of playing time. It’s not right.
Football was special as a kid. It was very pure. As I recall we really didn’t have dreams of playing in college or the pros - it was a coming of age thing more than anything. It started when school started and went for maybe 6-8 weeks. By the time of 9th grade it was obvious who was physically capable of being in it for the long haul.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 3, 2019 16:46:14 GMT -5
Right after I typed that, I went to Facebook and the first post was from a high school friend. He posted a pic of his son playing a soccer game this weekend in a snowstorm for “Hoosier FC” in Indiana. Get a grip, people. The kid soccer nonsense is unbelievable. Parents love to say that their kid is "on a travel team", which requires the parents to take the kid 100 or 150 miles in any direction for weekend tournaments where the parents rent hotel rooms and pay for meals, etc, etc, All this is done with some expectation that little Jason or Heather will land a college scholarship. Then you hear that Jason or Heather don't start on the high school team. You don't want to be cruel and ask whether their child is one of the top 5 or 6 players in the county because that's the number of kids who will land any kind of kickball scholarship each year--thousands of $$ spent chasing this elusive payoff. Of course, if the kid really loves playing, I suppose it's another story...…. |
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Post by HC92 on Mar 3, 2019 17:25:12 GMT -5
Right after I typed that, I went to Facebook and the first post was from a high school friend. He posted a pic of his son playing a soccer game this weekend in a snowstorm for “Hoosier FC” in Indiana. Get a grip, people. The kid soccer nonsense is unbelievable. Parents love to say that their kid is "on a travel team", which requires the parents to take the kid 100 or 150 miles in any direction for weekend tournaments where the parents rent hotel rooms and pay for meals, etc, etc, All this is done with some expectation that little Jason or Heather will land a college scholarship. Then you hear that Jason or Heather don't start on the high school team. You don't want to be cruel and ask whether their child is one of the top 5 or 6 players in the county because that's the number of kids who will land any kind of kickball scholarship each year--thousands of $$ spent chasing this elusive payoff. Of course, if the kid really loves playing, I suppose it's another story...…. Doesn’t change your point but, at least where I liive, there is “travel” soccer where towns have tryouts and form teams based on what town you live in. Those towns play other town travel teams of similar skill in the same county so half the games are in your town and half are in neighboring towns. What you’re talking about is “premier” which is totally out of control and a complete waste of time and money. Lots of people making a living off it though. |
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Post by moose1970 on Mar 3, 2019 18:28:52 GMT -5
Moose, knowing you were a football player, a couple of questions: 1. when (what age) did you start playing tackle football? 2. were your parents encouraging you to play? neutral on your playing? actively tried to discourage you? 3. did you get any injuries, especially head injuries (not trying to imply anything here! ) prior to your days as a Crusader football player? 4. don't recall if you have any kids - boys - but would you actively discourage them from playing football? I know we have a number of former (and younger than Moose) football alums who post here. Feel free to answer these questions - or not. 1. when (what age) did you start playing tackle football? high school freshman age 12-13. 2. were your parents encouraging you to play? neutral on your playing? actively tried to discourage you? my parents were "neutral" and for the most part did not go to my games. since i attended a boys catholic high school they probably felt that it must be ok to play football. 3. did you get any injuries, especially head injuries (not trying to imply anything here! ) prior to your days as a Crusader football player? ankle fx and ligament knee damages but nothing that kept me out of any games. ankle fx showed up on a post season x-ray. no diagnosis of head injuries so far (unless you talk to my wife) 4. don't recall if you have any kids - boys - but would you actively discourage them from playing football? as has been stated by myself and others so far, the "business" of youth sports is now a big, big business which did not exist in the good ole 60's. so i would discourage any kid today from playing tackle football certainly before high school age. kids should allowed/encouraged to be kids for as long as they can. no need for any added pressure which is what youth sports has become. |
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Post by scrantonsader on Mar 6, 2019 16:05:18 GMT -5
Moose, knowing you were a football player, a couple of questions: 1. when (what age) did you start playing tackle football? 2. were your parents encouraging you to play? neutral on your playing? actively tried to discourage you? 3. did you get any injuries, especially head injuries (not trying to imply anything here! ) prior to your days as a Crusader football player? 4. don't recall if you have any kids - boys - but would you actively discourage them from playing football? I know we have a number of former (and younger than Moose) football alums who post here. Feel free to answer these questions - or not. For the sake of debate: 1: 5 years old in the instructional full contact "D" Team - knee pads were basically shin guards and that chin strap was as tight as it could go on that small helmet. We did all the drills that are now "Banned" like nutcrackers, bull in the ring, and the likes. 2: It was natural, my older sibling started playing at 11 and I wanted to be just like him. Mom knew it would be good for multiple reasons: teamwork, work ethic, exercise, toughness (admittedly I wasn't the toughest child... lol) 3: All my major injuries came in late middle school - high school ball where I was playing against kids of all different sizes, a little stronger and a little faster. Sure there were booboos and tears along the way but i learned to discern injury from pain. Worst thing I had to endure with peewee's was making the weight limit to continue to play with my friends. 4: No kids yet, but without football, what other contact sports can a kid play besides spending >$1000s on hockey? This sport appeals to more socioeconomic classes. I think toughness isn't solely fostered by contact but it sure is a well documented catalyst. We hide behind the risk analysis but without risk there is little reward. Football is a very rewarding sport. Heck, it propelled me to Holy Cross... |
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