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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 4, 2019 10:58:17 GMT -5
Could have been dress rehearsal. Either way, there's no change that Carmody is going to make in this PLT PIG other than have his team run a real offense, the players make attempts for rebounds on either side of the ball, we drive to the hoop to get to the foul line, or actually make jump shots. I would be surprised if any one or combination of those things happened.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 4, 2019 11:10:25 GMT -5
RE: HC92 and the potential PLT surprise-- the last time Carmody rolled out a 1-3-1 it took our opponents by surprise, because it's a rarely-used ploy and the gimmick was half surprise and half effective. If Carmody has his team move to M2M defense as the "surprise" in the PLT, they'll be using the defense that 90% of the rest of the country effectively deploys... so it may surprise some opposing coaches that we actually changed, well, ANYTHING... but it's not unfamiliar to a D1 collegiate offense. Great point. While I think M2M is the way to go given the staff's inability to effectively teach a zone defense, without Benzan, 3 of the current top 6 guys in the rotation are not really capable defenders against D1 athletes. With such a limited amount of depth on the roster, any foul trouble would be a disaster. Another solution could be to just mix in a simplified 2-3 zone, rather than the 1-3-1 that doesn't work or the ferkakta "matchup zone" that the coaching staff doesn't even seem to understand themselves, never mind have the ability to teach.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 4, 2019 11:29:44 GMT -5
RE: HC92 and the potential PLT surprise-- the last time Carmody rolled out a 1-3-1 it took our opponents by surprise, because it's a rarely-used ploy and the gimmick was half surprise and half effective. I've read this lots of times, and it always surprises me. When Bucknell played HC at the Hart three weeks before the PLT, HC played a lot of 1-3-1. Eric Green played only 16 minutes in that early February HC-Bucknell game and I can't recall what role he played in that 1-3-1. When HC had its improbable run in the PLT Green was starting and playing more minutes and is credited with being the key to the defense's success: he was very quick and had a big wingspan
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Post by Tom on Mar 4, 2019 11:36:39 GMT -5
I've read this lots of times, and it always surprises me. When Bucknell played HC at the Hart three weeks before the PLT, HC played a lot of 1-3-1. Eric Green played only 16 minutes in that early February HC-Bucknell game and I can't recall what role he played in that 1-3-1. When HC had its improbable run in the PLT Green was starting and playing more minutes and is credited with being the key to the defense's success: he was very quick and had a big wingspan and moved to the bottom of the 1-3-1 The "surprise" was how the 1-3-1 worked with Green at the base.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 4, 2019 13:25:11 GMT -5
I've read this lots of times, and it always surprises me. When Bucknell played HC at the Hart three weeks before the PLT, HC played a lot of 1-3-1. Eric Green played only 16 minutes in that early February HC-Bucknell game. . . . EG's minutes went steadily down from there over the course of the next six games, finishing with just 5 minutes in the loss to BU at the end of the regular season - and the team lost five of those six.
He then averaged 27 mpg in the PLT, including 35 in the title game. He was the MVP for me.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 4, 2019 13:34:03 GMT -5
Is American really that much better or do they have that much more talent on their roster that we should be losing this game at home by 20 points on senior day? Perhaps those who were at the Hart would speak differently, but watching on TV it honestly looked like the team couldn't wait for the game to end. Very little life.
Beginning the season 10-4 and now sitting at 15-16 -- hard to understand it.
Bill Carmody should do the right thing and step down after the season concludes.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 4, 2019 14:04:02 GMT -5
Just my 2 pesos, but the impressions I came away from Saturday were 1) AU certainly played like a team with a lot at stake (which there was), and 2) HC, while coming out with energy, seemed to fall back into a "oh boy, here we go again" mode once those AU 3's kept going down. Certainly a tiny crowd does not help matters. Late in the second half Grandi took a 3 from in front of the HC bench that seemingly was halfway down before popping back out like an invisible force willed it out. 8485 and I turned to each other and said (paraphrasing) "well that's pretty much the season in a nutshell".
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Mar 4, 2019 15:24:13 GMT -5
Is American really that much better or do they have that much more talent on their roster that we should be losing this game at home by 20 points on senior day? Perhaps those who were at the Hart would speak differently, but watching on TV it honestly looked like the team couldn't wait for the game to end. Very little life. Beginning the season 10-4 and now sitting at 15-16 -- hard to understand it. Bill Carmody should do the right thing and step down after the season concludes. No doubt that this season has been a huge disappointment and the coach has to take the blame for this, but it is bizarre how many times you and the other guy repeatedly write the same thing. I don't think there's anyone east of the Mississippi who doesn't know how you feel so there is no need to keep saying it ad nauseum.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 4, 2019 15:50:46 GMT -5
Eric Green played only 16 minutes in that early February HC-Bucknell game and I can't recall what role he played in that 1-3-1. When HC had its improbable run in the PLT Green was starting and playing more minutes and is credited with being the key to the defense's success: he was very quick and had a big wingspan and moved to the bottom of the 1-3-1 The "surprise" was how the 1-3-1 worked with Green at the base. If you look back at that season, we lost 5 games in a row before winning the PLT and then beating Southern. We had three opponents & venues in common for the last 5 losses and the PLT run: @ Lehigh, @ Army, @ Loyola. On defense, which many contend was the beneficiary of the change in strategy/lineup, we can note that our opponents moved from taking twos to taking threes, had a much lwer two-point shooting percentage, and turned over the ball more often Three losses @ Lehigh, @ Army, @ Loyola
Opponents Shooting 54-105 on twos= .514 18-55 on threes= .327 threes= 34% of field goal attempts Effective FG Pctg= .506 Turnovers= 34 (Leh 9, Army 13, Loy 12) Three PLT wins @ Lehigh, @ Army, @ Loyola
Opponents Shooting 28-69 on twos= .406 big reduction in fg pctg 27-83 on threes= .325 no real change in fg pctg threes= 55% of field goal attempts Effective FG pctg= .451 Turnovers= 45 (Leh 11, Army 18, Loy 16) Small sample size, of course
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 4, 2019 17:29:10 GMT -5
and moved to the bottom of the 1-3-1 The "surprise" was how the 1-3-1 worked with Green at the base. If you look back at that season, we lost 5 games in a row before winning the PLT and then beating Southern. We had three opponents & venues in common for the last 5 losses and the PLT run: @ Lehigh, @ Army, @ Loyola. On defense, which many contend was the beneficiary of the change in strategy/lineup, we can note that our opponents moved from taking twos to taking threes, had a much lwer two-point shooting percentage, and turned over the ball more often Three losses @ Lehigh, @ Army, @ Loyola
Opponents Shooting 54-105 on twos= .514 18-55 on threes= .327 threes= 34% of field goal attempts Effective FG Pctg= .506 Turnovers= 34 (Leh 9, Army 13, Loy 12) Three PLT wins @ Lehigh, @ Army, @ Loyola
Opponents Shooting 28-69 on twos= .406 big reduction in fg pctg 27-83 on threes= .325 no real change in fg pctg threes= 55% of field goal attempts Effective FG pctg= .451 Turnovers= 45 (Leh 11, Army 18, Loy 16) Small sample size, of course Wow, this would seem to align with my notorious hideous memory. I was at the last game of the regular season at BU, and my recollection was that we were getting killed time and time again on switches in a m-2-m. BU bigs were getting baskets while being guarded by guys like AnT and CHam. Maybe it really spooked Coach - I don't think we've played it with regularity since that day.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 4, 2019 20:00:26 GMT -5
Has KC ever been effectively replaced from that championship team? Is Grandy or AB his equal from when KC was playing well?
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Post by timholycross on Mar 4, 2019 20:20:13 GMT -5
Butler doesn't bring nearly enough to the table as a college frontcourt player and grandy has his deficiencies too...having both of them in there up front at the same time is not a recipe for success
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Post by HC92 on Mar 4, 2019 20:46:34 GMT -5
Butler doesn't bring nearly enough to the table as a college frontcourt player and grandy has his deficiencies too...having both of them in there up front at the same time is not a recipe for success We only have two players in the rotation who are at least 6’6” and at least 200 pounds. Unless they’re both in there, we’re going to be distinct size disadvantage against most D1 basketball teams.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 4, 2019 20:49:38 GMT -5
Butler doesn't bring nearly enough to the table as a college frontcourt player and grandy has his deficiencies too...having both of them in there up front at the same time is not a recipe for success We only have two players in the rotation who are at least 6’6” and at least 200 pounds. Unless they’re both in there, we’re going to be distinct size disadvantage against most D1 basketball teams. Probably another reason we are the worst rebounding team in America. A decade ago, there were six players who saw minutes who were 6'6"+ and 200+.
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Post by trimster on Mar 4, 2019 20:58:40 GMT -5
Worst rebounding team in America. Let that sink in.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 4, 2019 21:11:19 GMT -5
We are the worst rebounding team in America because it is the coach's strategy to not try for rebounds. If we pursued rebounds we'd get plenty of them. We see it in every game we watch--a player takes a shot and everyone turns and runs to defend our basket with the occasional exception of Butler, Benzan, and Kyle Copeland. JF gets some o-boards because he is such a talent and he may be near the basket when his teammate shoots. I think the rebounding shortfall is 90% strategy and maybe 10% personnel.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 4, 2019 21:20:30 GMT -5
Has KC ever been effectively replaced from that championship team? Is Grandy or AB his equal from when KC was playing well? Tim hit the nail on the head. There is an enormous drop off from Green to Butler on the defensive end, and playing him on the back end of the 1-3-1 just does not work.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 4, 2019 21:24:27 GMT -5
We are the worst rebounding team in America because it is the coach's strategy to not try for rebounds. . . . I think the rebounding shortfall is 90% strategy and maybe 10% personnel. This has been offered multiple times as a response, and it's simply not true.
Not rebounding at the offensive end (341st) may be strategic - not doing it at the defensive end (333rd), allowing opponents inordinate numbers of second chances is just negligent, and out-and-out bad basketball - there are virtually no quality teams in the country that blow off the defensive boards. Holy Cross is the worst rebounding team in D1, because the team doesn't do it anywhere on the court. And not rebounding at either end has been a Carmody trademark since he left Princeton.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 4, 2019 21:26:39 GMT -5
We are the worst rebounding team in America because it is the coach's strategy to not try for rebounds. If Carmody's strategy is to not go after defensive rebounds, then that is grounds for a new coach alone. Porter Moser has the best defensive rebounding team in the country, but Loyola ranks near the bottom on the offensive glass -- this is a strategy. Carmody not caring about offensive or defensive rebounding isn't a strategy in my mind, it's pure arrogance that he believes he will out-offense and out-shoot the opposition.
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Post by classof83 on Mar 4, 2019 21:26:56 GMT -5
Has KC ever been effectively replaced from that championship team? Is Grandy or AB his equal from when KC was playing well? Tim hit the nail on the head. There is an enormous drop off from Green to Butler on the defensive end, and playing him on the back end of the 1-3-1 just does not work. AB was put there because PB couldn't handle it. One of the ways you beat the 1-3-1 is to lob the ball over the top. I recall several time when PB would get dunked on because he was too small to play the back end of the 1-3-1.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 4, 2019 21:28:21 GMT -5
We are the worst rebounding team in America because it is the coach's strategy to not try for rebounds. If we pursued rebounds we'd get plenty of them. We see it in every game we watch--a player takes a shot and everyone turns and runs to defend our basket with the occasional exception of Butler, Benzan, and Kyle Copeland. JF gets some o-boards because he is such a talent and he may be near the basket when his teammate shoots. I think the rebounding shortfall is 90% strategy and maybe 10% personnel. I agree with the main premise but disagree with the blame distribution. Carmody is not recruiting the Szatkos, Wheartys, Cliffords, Keisters, Meisters, etc. who will mix it up on the glass for 30+ minutes every game. And Carmody’s guards are gernerally more interested in lurking around the perimeter than banging around on the blocks. Butler is the lone exception and does mix it up occasionally, but he’s not really a strong out-of-area rebounder (far more likely to rebound balls that fall directly in his direction).
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Post by trimster on Mar 4, 2019 21:30:03 GMT -5
We are the worst rebounding team in America because it is the coach's strategy to not try for rebounds. If we pursued rebounds we'd get plenty of them. We see it in every game we watch--a player takes a shot and everyone turns and runs to defend our basket with the occasional exception of Butler, Benzan, and Kyle Copeland. JF gets some o-boards because he is such a talent and he may be near the basket when his teammate shoots. I think the rebounding shortfall is 90% strategy and maybe 10% personnel. I didn't check the stats but I have to assume we don't rank very well in terms of defensive rebounding percentage. Even if it is by design that we rank so low nationwide in terms of offensive rebounding that doesn't explain the defensive rebounding problems. Let's face it, we just don't have the mindset of effectively rebounding missed shots.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 4, 2019 21:30:40 GMT -5
We are the worst rebounding team in America because it is the coach's strategy to not try for rebounds. If we pursued rebounds we'd get plenty of them. We see it in every game we watch--a player takes a shot and everyone turns and runs to defend our basket with the occasional exception of Butler, Benzan, and Kyle Copeland. JF gets some o-boards because he is such a talent and he may be near the basket when his teammate shoots. I think the rebounding shortfall is 90% strategy and maybe 10% personnel. Carmody is not recruiting the Szatkos, Wheartys, Cliffords, Keisters, Meisters, etc. who will mix it up on the glass for 30+ minutes every game. 92 posted that we only have two guys who are 6'6" and 200+ who play. Carmody would not have bothered recruiting any of those guys who you mentioned above. He also would not have recruited our best player, Floyd.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 4, 2019 21:31:45 GMT -5
Tim hit the nail on the head. There is an enormous drop off from Green to Butler on the defensive end, and playing him on the back end of the 1-3-1 just does not work. AB was put there because PB couldn't handle it. One of the ways you beat the 1-3-1 is to lob the ball over the top. I recall several time when PB would get dunked on because he was too small to play the back end of the 1-3-1. The exact same thing happens to Butler. He is consistently sealed off and/or out of position against bigs on the block. Playing a 1/2 5’10-5’11combo guard (Benzan) on the back of a 1-3-1 is just plain dumb.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 4, 2019 21:33:38 GMT -5
We are the worst rebounding team in America because it is the coach's strategy to not try for rebounds. If we pursued rebounds we'd get plenty of them. We see it in every game we watch--a player takes a shot and everyone turns and runs to defend our basket with the occasional exception of Butler, Benzan, and Kyle Copeland. JF gets some o-boards because he is such a talent and he may be near the basket when his teammate shoots. I think the rebounding shortfall is 90% strategy and maybe 10% personnel. I didn't check the stats but I have to assume we don't rank very well in terms of defensive rebounding percentage. Even if it is by design that we rank so low nationwide in terms of offensive rebounding that doesn't explain the defensive rebounding problems. Let's face it, we just don't have the mindset of effectively rebounding missed shots. We rank 345th in offensive rebounding and 340th in defensive rebounding. I don't care how good our assist rate is. We will NEVER be a good team if we rank in the bottom 15 in both of these categories.
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