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Post by alum on Mar 17, 2019 6:42:05 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Mar 18, 2019 6:32:59 GMT -5
From multiple anecdotal sources, HC is continuing with last year's merit aid pattern of 10K to the higher scoring applicants (33-34ish ACT … high 1400's new SAT. SAT II's and AP scores might play a part ). Those kids are competitive for admission to BC/VU/, etc. and most likely in at FU/PC. BTW, test score optional schools nevertheless rely on the test scores for merit aid (higher scorers are undoubtedly sending them in anyway). Of course HC (and other schools) would have to look at test scores for this purpose since GPAs and Class Rank are getting more and more squishy.
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Post by gks on Mar 18, 2019 6:49:19 GMT -5
Sorry but it seems like 10K at a school that costs $65-70K isn't enough for kids that bust their butts and excel in high school.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 18, 2019 8:10:07 GMT -5
/\ I think the idea is that at the margins it might (here and there) make a difference for a strong academic kid deciding between schools. Again, at the margins and depending on many circumstances. It may very well be that most of the kids who get that offer don't bother attending in any case. (Agree that it is a drop in the bucket compared to the full cost but it may close the gap for a kid getting some financial aid who actually needs more...of course with that circumstance the kid may be heading elsewhere in any case...especially if they have excelled in school and on the boards)
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Post by alum on Mar 18, 2019 9:31:05 GMT -5
As I have said, I don't have a problem with a little more merit aid but I don't understand why you would offer it but not advertise it up front. I agree that $10,000 probably doesn't do enough. Given its reasonably strong yield, its high retention rate and its very high alumni giving rate, it remains clear to me that the challenge is getting people to look at HC when they commence their search. After that, the place does a pretty good job selling itself. I don't think this very limited unadvertised plan can be effective.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 18, 2019 9:43:33 GMT -5
I had heard of the same merit aid last year at HC (and CDS confirms it). Not part of a named program as you note. Agree we've got a good yield ( a high - and advertised - value on demonstrated interest and interview doubtlessly aids in that stat...as does our robust use of ED).
Also agree we are off the radar screen for many of the academic-oriented kids considering a Catholic education.
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 18, 2019 10:16:58 GMT -5
A personal sidenote - my daughter was admitted to HC last week. We applied for financial aid because we need it and had a reasonable expectation to get something. We received zippo ! Gonna be very tough to say 'yes' to HC.
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Post by gks on Mar 18, 2019 10:45:36 GMT -5
Every year cost is rising on the reasons for a student to attend a college. HC will get left behind. Middle class need not apply.
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 18, 2019 12:08:24 GMT -5
By the way, the email received stated that total applications were more than 7200.
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 18, 2019 15:50:13 GMT -5
A personal side note ... As many of you know I have had at least 1 child at HC for the last 7 years. One year had 2 at HC. I don't know what separates middle class from upper middle class in terms of family or per-capita income in Worcester County where we live, but I think our family would be considered at the upper end of middle-class. We applied for and received financial aid for both kids that I considered fair. - Both kids had loans each year, but at the end of 4 years each one totaled less than a typical new car loan that a new college graduate might be getting on their own. - My wife and I did not need to go deeper in debt to make the payments. - Outside of our 401K's we haven't saved much over the last 7 years, but that's what the next 10 years or so working years are for ... unless I hit he Powerball on Wednesday! In which case you'll the CHC8485 endowment to eliminate loans in financial aid packages and provide some merit aid! What I will tell you is Holy Cross' financial aid calculator was virtually right on - actually a bit low on the aid side and high on the loan side - when both kids were applying. It's available to anyone - you don't even need to have an applying student, so if you want to know your specific situation and maybe even know how much more or less you'd need to earn to qualify for aid, give it a try I think you'll find the information beneficial to understanding aid at HC. www.holycross.edu/financial-aid/financial-aid-calculator
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 18, 2019 17:31:07 GMT -5
While my girls have both graduated, I took a crack at the calculator, swagging numbers from when my older daughter was applying (and I was still working) ---very easy to use and I should think it would be very helpful for parental planning.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 19, 2019 7:46:13 GMT -5
Now that all colleges have those sorts of calculators parents can take a quick stab at the numbers (and make some general comparisons).
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 19, 2019 9:06:18 GMT -5
Yes. Federal government made the calculators mandatory for all colleges & universities in 2011, just in time for my oldest's applications to college. In my view a great assistance in understanding what you were getting into before applying.
And though both my kids applied to HC Early Decision, they also applied to a couple of other places early action and in all cases the calculators were fairly accurate for the awards ultimately offered.
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Post by Tom on Mar 19, 2019 11:18:28 GMT -5
Sorry but it seems like 10K at a school that costs $65-70K isn't enough for kids that bust their butts and excel in high school. Based on 100 percent need, isn't 10K merit absolutely meaningless unless your total need was less than 10K? The family now effectively has an extra 10K so there need would be 10K less. I have seen this happen with other scholarships
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Post by timholycross on Mar 20, 2019 15:31:03 GMT -5
By the way, the email received stated that total applications were more than 7200. Just curious, if you tried the calculator did it spit out the same numbers that the financial aid office did...or was their decision an unpleasant surprise? But in any case your daughter deserves congratulations for having the academic qualifications to get in. She'll do well somewhere else for sure.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 22, 2019 16:26:54 GMT -5
A word of caution about going down the merit aid path: it's a race small colleges can't win. For every $10K award, Villanova will then offer $15K. Parents will ask for more and pit schools against each other. And every dollar that goes to merit aid is a dollar that can't go to demonstrated need, so others will be left short. Holy Cross should be proud that it is among just four Catholic colleges nationwide offering need blind, full need admissions, offering the promise of a Jesuit education to the best students regardless of their family's financial status. The view should be less about "losing" people to Villanova and more about the promise of a college education to whoever is accepted regardless of income or privilege. Otherwise, HC runs the risk of a lot of high income applicants also collecting $10K checks from the College...because they can. Franklin & Marshall, a liberal arts school of 2400, dropped all merit aid in 2011 to focus on need based aid. It comes with a high cost but it's a commitment worth making. www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/02/14/franklin-marshall-college-looks-close-6-percent-budget-gap
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 22, 2019 16:34:34 GMT -5
Thoughtful analysis, dfwhoya. Lots to ponder on this matter
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Post by hcpride on Mar 22, 2019 18:40:01 GMT -5
A word of caution about going down the merit aid path: it's a race small colleges can't win. For every $10K award, Villanova will then offer $15K. Parents will ask for more and pit schools against each other. And every dollar that goes to merit aid is a dollar that can't go to demonstrated need, so others will be left short. Holy Cross should be proud that it is among just four Catholic colleges nationwide offering need blind, full need admissions, offering the promise of a Jesuit education to the best students regardless of their family's financial status. The view should be less about "losing" people to Villanova and more about the promise of a college education to whoever is accepted regardless of income or privilege. Otherwise, HC runs the risk of a lot of high income applicants also collecting $10K checks from the College...because they can. Franklin & Marshall, a liberal arts school of 2400, dropped all merit aid in 2011 to focus on need based aid. It comes with a high cost but it's a commitment worth making. www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/02/14/franklin-marshall-college-looks-close-6-percent-budget-gapWe (at HC) are already way, way down the path of merit aid. Athletic merit aid. I guess every dollar awarded could be viewed as a dollar no longer available for need-based aid. Zero sum. And yes, parents can and do pit schools against each other. The school's decision to go that route (generous athletic merit aid) is not necessarily universally supported. On a different note, (and as illustrated in a couple of the above posts), HC awards a small bit of academic merit aid at the same rate as Villanova (it is not a secret they both are in the category of schools that awards a small amount of acadmic merit aid). Ditto BC. I have no problem with some competition for the top academic students via merit aid (especially since the numbers involved are dwarfed by those relative to competing for the top athletes.) Now, a discussion to eliminate all merit aid (athletic and academic) and thus increase money available for need-based financial aid is certainly a worthy, balanced, and rational one. That is now the Franklin and Marshall model - and is the practice for many other schools. (FWIW, Franklin and Marshall is not need blind. They are need aware. Some have suggested HC may shortly have to move to that model given fiscal realities. [The original topic of this thread.] I don't know if anyone has determined whether giving up athletic and merit aid would enable us to remain need blind/full need admissions and thus retain the 'promise of a college education to whoever is accepted regardless of income'.)
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Post by crusader99 on Mar 23, 2019 10:06:11 GMT -5
This is an interesting discussion. We have a graduating senior and another who will start as a Freshman this Fall. We are extremely pleased with the education our oldest received and the peer groups at the College. We hope that HC continues to keep it doors open to those qualified students and stays true to its mission. We believe it is the classic diamond in the rough, attracting families and students that attend for the purpose of becoming educated young adults. Here is an easy read. www.peggynoonan.com/kids-dont-become-success-robots/.
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Post by Chu Chu on Mar 23, 2019 11:21:24 GMT -5
Nice article. I love the idea of "The Clothes Closet".
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Post by HC13 on Apr 18, 2019 6:13:35 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Apr 19, 2019 5:27:36 GMT -5
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 19, 2019 6:47:32 GMT -5
This is an interesting discussion. We have a graduating senior and another who will start as a Freshman this Fall. We are extremely pleased with the education our oldest received and the peer groups at the College. We hope that HC continues to keep it doors open to those qualified students and stays true to its mission. We believe it is the classic diamond in the rough, attracting families and students that attend for the purpose of becoming educated young adults. I would agree. I also know that bills must be paid. When I attended HC, way back in the late 1960s, it was also expensive but not nearly as high (compared to current costs and inflation) as it is today. I also want to see HC to remain as "need blind" as possible, but not if it threatens the future of our small "diamond in the rough" (a nice turn of a phrase). Also, thanks to alum's link, I have broken my claim to never have read an article in something called the Spire. I wonder how The Crusader would have covered this?
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Post by gks on Apr 19, 2019 7:00:54 GMT -5
This is a big decision for HC. What do you want in a student body? Bunch of rich kids or kids from all backgrounds. If I was an alum I would find a move like this troubling. This tells me that Holy Cross is at the tipping point when it comes to tuition and fees. Just another disconnect from Worcester and Central Mass.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 19, 2019 7:06:37 GMT -5
gks, I undrstand your concern, but HC is not going to stop offering scholarships and financial aid packages to all applicants - which your post seems to imply. For a small percentage the ability to contribute to the college coffers could play a roll, but, as with most things, it is not an "all or nothing choice." Also, I remember hearing that my widowed mother (who supported my grandparents and one great grandparent in addition to me) could "afford' HC with no financial help from the Cross. Even then the school's decisions were sometimes strange.
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