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Post by cfrivals on Mar 7, 2019 21:22:37 GMT -5
Ok we started 9-4 and went 7-13 in the mighty PL! We do not have a good team returning. Every player has huge flaws. 1 senior who will probably never play. 6 jrs where 2 maybe 3 are boarderline mid major players. No big man. 2 Sophomores, projects at best. A coach who’s style is Terrible and ineffective. We bashed Milan and he had three finishes in the top four of PL, BC has finished in bottom tier every season. Milan had a couple winning seasons, BC losing seasons every year. Milan recruited players who got better each year, BC recruits do not show much improvement and some got removed from team.
Program needs a change at the helm immediately!
I stuck with the program for 42 years, this year I have hit my limit. Better decisions need to be made and a complete overhaul is needed!
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Post by thecrossisback on Mar 7, 2019 21:22:53 GMT -5
Tough loss, thought we could have pulled it out. Need home games in the PL tournament and Carmody has never had one. To Floyd you were amazing. Caleb Green played well to. Really no complaints, just some big shots did not fall.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 7, 2019 21:26:42 GMT -5
Faw is 6'9" and athletic for his size. There is a ton of potential there if he is motivated and the coaches can bring it out of him. We will also have Niego back.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 7, 2019 21:28:31 GMT -5
You’re right. Everything is terrible at HC. I hear the food at Kimball is bettah now...hey, it's something Wrong.
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Post by hc87 on Mar 7, 2019 21:38:43 GMT -5
I hear the food at Kimball is bettah now...hey, it's something Wrong. LOL...believe me, I'm no fussy eater but I find it hard to believe the food served at Kimball today doesn't top what was regularly served in the 1980s.
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billy72
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 95
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Post by billy72 on Mar 7, 2019 21:45:25 GMT -5
You guys are delusional ! Time for a complete and total change !!!
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 7, 2019 23:04:12 GMT -5
LOL...believe me, I'm no fussy eater but I find it hard to believe the food served at Kimball today doesn't top what was regularly served in the 1980s. Kimball does at least have the longest salad baaahhh in Greatahh Worcestahhh. As of the mid to late 2000's anyway...
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 7, 2019 23:13:14 GMT -5
Milan Brown, who was a terrible coach at HC, was definitely better than Bill Carmody.
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Post by crosspride on Mar 8, 2019 4:05:28 GMT -5
Milan Brown, who was a terrible coach at HC, was definitely better than Bill Carmody. Milan Brown would have won the PL this year. Floyd Kostecka Proctor Benzan core, plus he’d have kept the rest of his guys in school. Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but kudos to Brown for his eye for talent and willingness to recruit. Should be fun to watch how he does as A mid major Hc at his next stop. Just atrocious deciron making and hiring by Pine, who’s goals were not aligned with HCs. Clearly he accomplished what he wanted to with the move up to another school.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 8, 2019 6:01:58 GMT -5
Milan Brown, who was a terrible coach at HC, was definitely better than Bill Carmody. Milan Brown would have won the PL this year. Floyd Kostecka Proctor Benzan core, plus he’d have kept the rest of his guys in school. Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but kudos to Brown for his eye for talent and willingness to recruit. Should be fun to watch how he does as A mid major Hc at his next stop. Just atrocious deciron making and hiring by Pine, who’s goals were not aligned with HCs. Clearly he accomplished what he wanted to with the move up to another school. Perhaps, but not fact. I was feeling pretty good in March 2014 when we had a 14 point lead in the second half against American in the PL semis.....until I saw everything come apart right in front of my eyes in Bender Arena. Win that game (with a NBA player and an established European pro big) and we might not even be having this thread.
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Post by sader81 on Mar 8, 2019 7:57:28 GMT -5
The boys shot 50% from the foul line, and 4 of 22 from 3 (iirc 2 of those were near the end of the game.) A lot of those 3s were good looks that they didn’t convert. You are not going to win many games with those numbers, and it’s almost impossible on the road against a good team. I don’t point fingers at players, but the coaches didn’t miss those shots! It will be a different team next year. Floyd will be the biggest loss, and you won’t replace his factor around the hoop and his ability to defend near the hoop. However, his inability to shoot beyond eight feet and foul line will be replaced by more well rounded offensive bigs that can shoot beyond the three point line and bang inside when needed. How hard they bang is the question, but if they improve after their sophomore year the way Whearty, Clifford, and Floyd did, they will be ok. Can’t help but be disappointed with the season, but I’ve posted all along that we were young, and inconsistency comes with that territory.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 8, 2019 7:58:57 GMT -5
Milan Brown would have won the PL this year. Floyd Kostecka Proctor Benzan core, plus he’d have kept the rest of his guys in school. Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but kudos to Brown for his eye for talent and willingness to recruit. Seems there's no better place than this to note that Mitch Hahn was just named 1st-team All-Summit. . . . That said, I'm convinced he would have left HC after his freshman year, regardless of who the head coach was.
His eye for talent notwithstanding, Milan was not good at pre-game prep, and below average as an in-game coach. As NAD notes elsewhere, the team melted down in the 2014 PLT semis
when AU went to a zone in the second half. Not only did HC fail to adapt, but chose to attack it from the worst possible spot (the deep corners) where AU's double-teams were most effective. It was awful to watch.
As for keeping his guys on the straight and narrow, Brown certainly did that. But, while I will always feel that the current staff wasn't - and isn't - engaged enough with the players off the court (unlike MB's staff, particularly Kevin Robinson, was), there has been no NCAA report issued concerning the 2018 suspensions. That suggests that, officially at least, Carmody and Co. are not seen as culpable in whatever happened that led to the dismissal of the Unholy Three.
Recruiting remains a concern with this regime. Bringing in three guards next year is not going to change our fortunes, imho, regardless of their pass/dribble/shoot credentials.
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Post by bigfan on Mar 8, 2019 8:07:15 GMT -5
Big problem next year, "Who is going to rebound" ?
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Post by crosspride on Mar 8, 2019 8:21:13 GMT -5
Agree with NAD and WG. While it’s of course impossible to say, it’s fun to think of what MBs team would have looked like. With the how the players he recruited turned out, and with how average the league is right now, I think he would have won the league this year. even with Xs and Os shortcomings. Just a hypothetical.
The other point, though, is that in 5 years of coaching, CMB had brought in 2 guys with very high ceilings in MM and JF. I see some nice players brought in by CBC, but we’ll see how they develop.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 8, 2019 8:28:38 GMT -5
Milan Brown would have won the PL this year. Floyd Kostecka Proctor Benzan core, plus he’d have kept the rest of his guys in school. Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but kudos to Brown for his eye for talent and willingness to recruit. Should be fun to watch how he does as A mid major Hc at his next stop. Just atrocious deciron making and hiring by Pine, who’s goals were not aligned with HCs. Clearly he accomplished what he wanted to with the move up to another school. Perhaps, but not fact. I was feeling pretty good in March 2014 when we had a 14 point lead in the second half against American in the PL semis.....until I saw everything come apart right in front of my eyes in Bender Arena. Win that game (with a NBA player and an established European pro big) and we might not even be having this thread. Milan had his chance here. His PL tournament record was pretty poor. In terms of Holy Cross recruiting, very good at that; coaching not so great. Kind of an oddity, but the players that left pretty much played the positions of the current sophomores only they were/are better at it than them. Not sure how much better, but better. Rebounding issues probably would have occurred with that team as well....although MB certainly would have recruited another big body or two in the interim. Do you realize that Kostecka is the only defection that ended up in a conference as good as or better than the Patriot League? The Summit (Hahn), Big South (Proctor) and MAAC (Proctor again) are ranked 26, 27 and 29? We're not talking about Bobby Kelly playing for St. John's in the Big East here. I liked Milan's defense better for the most part; however, I do remember games (especially the final season) where they played the Milan Brown man-to-man version of the Carmody 1-3-1; that is, they took silly chances, leaving them out of position and the opponent with wide open shots.
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Post by lou on Mar 8, 2019 8:40:11 GMT -5
Milan Brown, who was a terrible coach at HC, was definitely better than Bill Carmody. And a couple of nights ago Carmody was definitely going to be outcoached by FOH
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 8, 2019 8:43:01 GMT -5
Carmody and O'Hanlon are actually quite similar. They have both, historically, over-valued pass/dribble/shoot, while under-valuing defense and rebounding.
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Post by Tom on Mar 8, 2019 9:12:21 GMT -5
Milan Brown, who was a terrible coach at HC, was definitely better than Bill Carmody. Milan Brown would have won the PL this year. Floyd Kostecka Proctor Benzan core, plus he’d have kept the rest of his guys in school. Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but kudos to Brown for his eye for talent and willingness to recruit. Should be fun to watch how he does as A mid major Hc at his next stop. Just atrocious deciron making and hiring by Pine, who’s goals were not aligned with HCs. Clearly he accomplished what he wanted to with the move up to another school. Not so much hind sight as a wishful thinking. In 5 years, Coach Brown won one quarterfinal game in the PLT. As stated above, that game was won with a future NBA player, a decent future European player in Dudzinski, and I'll even throw in a point guard who was such an incredible leader, he had the unprecedented honor of being named team captain as a soph. That was his big chance and the team couldn't get out of the semis. In five years, Coach Brown never realistically competed for a trip to the dance. I see zero evidence to think Coach Brown would ever win the PL. Yes he brought us two very special players in Miller and Floyd, but that doesn't mean he could have sealed the deal
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Post by matunuck on Mar 8, 2019 9:17:27 GMT -5
Faw is 6'9" and athletic for his size. There is a ton of potential there if he is motivated and the coaches can bring it out of him. We will also have Niego back. If he is motivated? Explain a little more?
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Post by crosspride on Mar 8, 2019 11:27:18 GMT -5
Milan Brown would have won the PL this year. Floyd Kostecka Proctor Benzan core, plus he’d have kept the rest of his guys in school. Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but kudos to Brown for his eye for talent and willingness to recruit. Should be fun to watch how he does as A mid major Hc at his next stop. Just atrocious deciron making and hiring by Pine, who’s goals were not aligned with HCs. Clearly he accomplished what he wanted to with the move up to another school. Not so much hind sight as a wishful thinking. In 5 years, Coach Brown won one quarterfinal game in the PLT. As stated above, that game was won with a future NBA player, a decent future European player in Dudzinski, and I'll even throw in a point guard who was such an incredible leader, he had the unprecedented honor of being named team captain as a soph. That was his big chance and the team couldn't get out of the semis. In five years, Coach Brown never realistically competed for a trip to the dance. I see zero evidence to think Coach Brown would ever win the PL. Yes he brought us two very special players in Miller and Floyd, but that doesn't mean he could have sealed the deal The evidence is that the roster of guys he brought in would have been the best roster in the PL imho. Far better than the current HC roster. He also had to beat McCollum and Muscala, not Tejada and Sestina. I think the captain as a soph thing is a joke so I won’t respond to that :-)
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 8, 2019 12:10:27 GMT -5
Carmody & Brennan had excellent PL Tournament runs in their first year in the PL, each capturing a PL Championship. However, including each getting eliminated last night, there has been a sharp drop off in their tournament play after their first seasons at the helm, and now with another PO guy in the league in Tavaris Hardy, the results of the PO in the PL Tournament are not looking good. - Total W-L after BC & MB's first years (excluding PIG Pen wins): 4-9 (.308)
- Total W-L in the last three years (excluding PIG Pen wins): 1-7 (.125)
It may be safe to say that the league has figured out the PO, particularly when it comes to PL Tournament time.
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Post by Chu Chu on Mar 8, 2019 12:12:45 GMT -5
The other teams in our league have gotten a lot better. We have kind of stagnated,
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Post by Tom on Mar 8, 2019 12:14:18 GMT -5
Not so much hind sight as a wishful thinking. In 5 years, Coach Brown won one quarterfinal game in the PLT. As stated above, that game was won with a future NBA player, a decent future European player in Dudzinski, and I'll even throw in a point guard who was such an incredible leader, he had the unprecedented honor of being named team captain as a soph. That was his big chance and the team couldn't get out of the semis. In five years, Coach Brown never realistically competed for a trip to the dance. I see zero evidence to think Coach Brown would ever win the PL. Yes he brought us two very special players in Miller and Floyd, but that doesn't mean he could have sealed the deal The evidence is that the roster of guys he brought in would have been the best roster in the PL imho. Far better than the current HC roster. He also had to beat McCollum and Muscala, not Tejada and Sestina. I think the captain as a soph thing is a joke so I won’t respond to that :-) As luck would have it, Coach Brown never had to face McCollum or Muscala in the PL tournament because when those guys were playing, HC never got past Lafayette. When they were graduated, leaving only Malcolm Miller as the only future NBA player in the league, HC also failed to win or even make the final. It's all speculation because obviously we can never prove one way or the other. I'm not denying that Coach Brown brought in some very good players. I just never saw even a hint that he could take those talented squads and win the league. To say Coach Brown would have won the league this year because of his core of Floyd, Kostecka, Proctor, and Benzan seems unfounded. We are all bitterly disappointed at the past few seasons, but that doesn't automatically mean staying the old course would have been any better
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Post by crosspride on Mar 8, 2019 12:43:47 GMT -5
The evidence is that the roster of guys he brought in would have been the best roster in the PL imho. Far better than the current HC roster. He also had to beat McCollum and Muscala, not Tejada and Sestina. I think the captain as a soph thing is a joke so I won’t respond to that :-) As luck would have it, Coach Brown never had to face McCollum or Muscala in the PL tournament because when those guys were playing, HC never got past Lafayette. When they were graduated, leaving only Malcolm Miller as the only future NBA player in the league, HC also failed to win or even make the final. It's all speculation because obviously we can never prove one way or the other. I'm not denying that Coach Brown brought in some very good players. I just never saw even a hint that he could take those talented squads and win the league. To say Coach Brown would have won the league this year because of his core of Floyd, Kostecka, Proctor, and Benzan seems unfounded. We are all bitterly disappointed at the past few seasons, but that doesn't automatically mean staying the old course would have been any better Unless Brown continued with the same win % as he had in his 5 years here, in which case staying the course would have been better. Especially in PL play. Those 4 as a core would have been his most talented team, imho.
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Post by res on Mar 8, 2019 12:55:55 GMT -5
When they were graduated, leaving only Malcolm Miller as the only future NBA player in the league, HC also failed to win or even make the final. It's all speculation because obviously we can never prove one way or the other. I'm not denying that Coach Brown brought in some very good players. I just never saw even a hint that he could take those talented squads and win the league. To say Coach Brown would have won the league this year because of his core of Floyd, Kostecka, Proctor, and Benzan seems unfounded. We are all bitterly disappointed at the past few seasons, but that doesn't automatically mean staying the old course would have been any better Good for you, Tom. I gave up that battle years ago...
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