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Post by joe on Mar 8, 2019 9:42:52 GMT -5
Carmody said in his press conference upon being hired, something akin to, "This is not a rebuilding situation." I interpreted this as we were going to hit the ground running. After a slow start in the 2016 regular season, the miracle 2016 PL Championship run should have catapulted this program into a steep upward trajectory. Instead we are the worst program in one of the worst leagues in the US.
HC athletics needs to do some soul searching. If it can't commit to serious D1 athletics, it's time to go D3 and join the league with MIT and those schools. No shame in that.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 8, 2019 9:52:43 GMT -5
Looks very similar to another thread,but SoV should do the right thing ...and retire as a poster. Or tune it down a notch.
Nuts how some say Carmody can't recruit and in the same breath it's stated we have a good class coming in. After all, it's so easy to recruit to today's Holy Cross, right? Oh wait....the LAC factor. The building has been open 1 year....maybe that's how we landed the two pups incoming....maybe ?
Wait, how come Bucknell does better ? Gee, could it be maybe because they built their facilities years ago while the previous administrative dopes ignored how far we'd fallen behind ? Oh and bye the bye, despite the LAC, their facilities are still better.
But wait wait, look at Colgate ! Well gee II, their facilities aside, they have totally embarrassed HC, and again our totally inept past administrations, in athletic funding, managing TITLE IV, aggressive scheduling and brand recognition.
Pine inherited a total and colossal athletic mess that was decades behind everyone in sight. The student population, save for about maybe a couple hundred non-athletes, was and still is devoid of the college athletic experience factor within their lives....i.e. CULTURE.
HC is in the infant stages of someday being an attractive destination for aspiring young coaches ( see our first in Chesney ). When Carmody was hired the program was a mess and the LAC was an artist rendering. That doesn't get turned around in a snap.
I'll stop the rant now....but I'll ad this....
I've avoided this subject purposely for the reason that it's pretty damn low to zero in on Bill Carmody at a time when he and his family are enduring the most God awful challenge that in the big picture, dwarfs the highs and lows of the basketball program.
Now, go ahead and continue this crap if you must.
very well said
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 8, 2019 9:53:59 GMT -5
Looks very similar to another thread,but SoV should do the right thing ...and retire as a poster. Or tune it down a notch.
Nuts how some say Carmody can't recruit and in the same breath it's stated we have a good class coming in. After all, it's so easy to recruit to today's Holy Cross, right? Oh wait....the LAC factor. The building has been open 1 year....maybe that's how we landed the two pups incoming....maybe ?
He has a good class coming in based on what? The endless tweets and high school stats posted here? If I recall, there was also a similar type of hype about Marlon Hargris when we were recruiting him last spring, and how'd that turn out? 10 total points this season. I hope the two guys coming in are great, but this is not a class that is going to turn this program around. One player is at a position where we are already in good shape (small PG), and while we do need an upgrade to go along with Grandison on the wing, that is not going to fill the colossal holes that we will have down low. Re: your excuses for why Carmody has failed in recruiting to this point -- both Sean Kearney & Milan Brown (two lousy head coaches) did a better job of recruiting and identifying talent than Carmdoy without any type of Luth on the horizon.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 8, 2019 9:57:31 GMT -5
Looks very similar to another thread,but SoV should do the right thing ...and retire as a poster.
I've avoided this subject purposely for the reason that it's pretty damn low to zero in on Bill Carmody at a time when he and his family are enduring the most God awful challenge that in the big picture, dwarfs the highs and lows of the basketball program.
I think most rational people are able to separate Bill Carmody the basketball coach and Bill Carmody the husband of a woman who is battling cancer.
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Post by Ray on Mar 8, 2019 9:59:21 GMT -5
A rare voice of reason around here.
I assume there will be some kind of clarity/announcement pretty soon. I'm content to wait til that happens. There's no point in excorciating the guy here. This season in particular was clearly not his best coaching job, and that's understandable on some level.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 8, 2019 10:00:59 GMT -5
Chesney and the football team rattled off four nice wins at the end of last season, but still were 5-6 overall (4-2 in the league). Much left to be written regarding his Holy Cross career-- hopefully-- but can we please please please stop chugging the purple kool-aid with this guy until they've accomplished something? HC overall has a lacking sports culture, but the slow acceptance of mediocre performance over time is like a river eroding a rock. I'd rather have no culture than accept middle-of-the-road.
I guess my point is let's not hope and pray for a "Chesney of basketball" because Chesney hasn't really done much (or had a chance yet to do much) with football.
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Post by gks on Mar 8, 2019 10:04:03 GMT -5
Chesney and the football team rattled off four nice wins at the end of last season, but still were 5-6 overall (4-2 in the league). Much left to be written regarding his Holy Cross career-- hopefully-- but can we please please please stop chugging the purple kool-aid with this guy until they've accomplished something? HC overall has a lacking sports culture, but the slow acceptance of mediocre performance over time is like a river eroding a rock. I'd rather have no culture than accept middle-of-the-road. I guess my point is let's not hope and pray for a "Chesney of basketball" because Chesney hasn't really done much (or had a chance yet to do much) with football. Chesney has re-energized the football program. His recruiting class is rated tops in the league and very high nationally. There is a buzz. This is the start and now it's time to do it on the field. Basketball has no buzz. Hasn't for a while.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 8, 2019 10:07:51 GMT -5
Everybody here who would quit a guaranteed pay $350,000 per year job because one group of customers are unhappy, raise your hand? Just as I thought. Oh, and if his wife is not 65 (not really sure) he’s probably not giving a job with health insurance right now. if it’s time for him to go, fire and pay him. I don’t think anyone would give up that amount of money, but the College should be able to facilitate some type of compromise. Give Carmody and his wife whatever they need for healthcare, negotiate that number down to a more reasonable amount, pay off the rest of his lease in Worcester, etc. This would allow Carmody to “retire” without the embarrassment of coming back for another poor season next year and not having his contract renewed/getting fired Carmody doesn’t even look like he’s fully engaged in games, so I can’t imagine how little interest he has in hitting the recruiting trail in the spring and summer, putting the players through individual workouts and drills during summer school, etc., and while he would be too arrogant to admit it, he has to know that the team he has coming back next year just isn’t going to get the job done. It’s time to go enjoy the Jersey Shore. As always, you see what you want to see. Are you a psychologist or body language expert? Have you really observed him enough in games to make such a judgement? Have you been to a dozen games in person or are you basing this keen insight on the few seconds the camera focuses on the coach on broadcasts. "I can't imagine how little interest he has...": you have to be kidding.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 8, 2019 10:10:51 GMT -5
As far as recruiting goes I see no reason to believe we've suddenly started landing better players than two years ago (none of whom has proven to be an above-average PL starter thus far ) so I'm not buying that next year we'll be better than this year. As far as Coach Carmody goes I don't see a reason that HC would buy him out. We're at or near .500, our record improved over last year, and the kids are not quitting during the games. That more than meets the standard in a participatory sports program.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 8, 2019 10:16:55 GMT -5
Chesney and the football team rattled off four nice wins at the end of last season, but still were 5-6 overall (4-2 in the league). Much left to be written regarding his Holy Cross career-- hopefully-- but can we please please please stop chugging the purple kool-aid with this guy until they've accomplished something? HC overall has a lacking sports culture, but the slow acceptance of mediocre performance over time is like a river eroding a rock. I'd rather have no culture than accept middle-of-the-road. I guess my point is let's not hope and pray for a "Chesney of basketball" because Chesney hasn't really done much (or had a chance yet to do much) with football. Chesney has re-energized the football program. His recruiting class is rated tops in the league and very high nationally. There is a buzz. This is the start and now it's time to do it on the field. Basketball has no buzz. Hasn't for a while. Pine created buzz too. Pine created no results. Buzz is all we've got after one year with Coach Chesney, so certainly not fair to criticize, but let's not anoint him just yet.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 8, 2019 10:43:38 GMT -5
It's an extremely sad situation Carmody finds himself in. Having to coach a Division I team is hard enough, but then also caring for a sick loved places Carmody in an incredibly difficult spot.
There's no need to post the terrible record over the past four seasons, along with the bad team statistics that have contributed to four straight sub .500 seasons. We've all seen these figures.
I think it's worth looking at Carmody from a program management standpoint.
We have a 67-year old coach who -- self-admittedly -- doesn't like to recruit. This season, he missed a handful of road games to be at home with his wife. Isn't it fair to wonder his fitness as our head coach going forward? How active and motivated is he going to be during the offseason to go out and recruit. If he can't go to Washington DC to coach the team against American, will he be attending AAU tournaments around the country this summer?
I think it's perfectly reasonable and fair for either Fr. B or Interim AD Sullivan to have a conversation with him as to how the basketball program and Carmody may be able to figure out an amicable way to part ways where Carmody is compensated, but HC isn't paying him in full for the final year of his deal.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 8, 2019 11:07:05 GMT -5
Chesney has re-energized the football program. His recruiting class is rated tops in the league and very high nationally. There is a buzz. This is the start and now it's time to do it on the field. Basketball has no buzz. Hasn't for a while. Pine created buzz too. Pine created no results. Buzz is all we've got after one year with Coach Chesney, so certainly not fair to criticize, but let's not anoint him just yet. From 2014-15 forward (Pine's first full year), there have been 56 full seasons for the 12 D1 "primary" D1 sports that have team W-L records -- Baseball, M+W Basketball, Football, M Hockey, M+W Lacrosse, Field Hockey, M+W Soccer, Softball, Volleyball. -In those 56 seasons, FIVE teams finished with a winning record (including WBB this year), with only one of those teams finishing with a winning% above .600 -- W Soccer in 14-15. -For the 8 teams who have completed their season this year (counting M Hockey & WBB), the average winning percentage change from 14-15 to this year was -.029. The largest increase was for WBB with a .117 increase (and a head coach who is now on leave). -I don't have stats on YoY changes for tweets, but I would guess that those have increased dramatically. Bravo! Five winning records in the past 4.5 years, and only one in the past 2.5 years. Sad, so sad. (For context, in the three full years from 2011-2014, there were 12 teams with a winning record.)
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Post by efg72 on Mar 8, 2019 11:11:19 GMT -5
The noise around this action clearly is limited to posters on this board and not expressed in the broader college community or board. Now if there are people posting here that --give millions to the school you might have a say in this process --if you personally want to buy out a contract and pay the premium for a new coach, you might have a role in the decision
Otherwise I guess many feel better expressing their individual disappointment, and while that is what Crossports offers, I really think this group ought to hit the pause button on this topic and finally allow the coach and his family the time they need to sort through the more important parts of life. I give him credit for trying to keep all things moving in the right direction for the kids while trying to do all he can to support his wife.
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Post by breezy on Mar 8, 2019 11:34:12 GMT -5
As someone who has lived through the experience of watching my wife battle, suffer from, and eventually succumb to (in September 2016, one month after our 45th wedding anniversary), cancer, I perhaps lack the objectivity to consider some of the comments made in this thread. In any event, my perhaps non-objective opinion is that I am appalled by the lack of empathy shown in some posts.
If Coach Carmody were to decide that he wanted to devote his time to his family situation to the exclusion of his duties as basketball coach, I would find it perfectly understandable. The College has, in my opinion, made reasonable efforts to be understanding and sympathetic to the situation. In my view -- again, perhaps overly influenced by my own experience -- further discussion in this thread is unwarranted.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 8, 2019 11:38:27 GMT -5
AMEN
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 8, 2019 12:17:10 GMT -5
It's amazing that we have a six person sophomore class that have all contributed and all naturally have potential to improve for next year. There isn't a talent swing and miss among them that relegated them to four years as a practice player on full scholarship that happens quite a bit at the PL level. Perhaps the value of six players playing together for the third year in a row, with a stable coaching situation, if as is likely Carm comes back, will contribute to a better year next year. Copeland's length gives him some potential that PB didn't have. He looked good last night.
Before depth and stamina became an issue last night we played Bucknell even. Jehyve can't be replaced, but Faw and Niego and Grandy can improve from sophomore to junior. Floyd certainly improved, Sestina certainly improved over their four years. As Ralph used to say, the PL is a senior driven league and we will have six juniors with the playing experience of typical PL seniors next year. I for one am descending from the ledge.
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Post by efg72 on Mar 8, 2019 12:23:40 GMT -5
It's amazing that we have a six person sophomore class that have all contributed and all naturally have potential to improve for next year. There isn't a talent swing and miss among them that relegated them to four years as a practice player on full scholarship that happens quite a bit at the PL level. Perhaps the value of six players playing together for the third year in a row, with a stable coaching situation, if as is likely Carm comes back, will contribute to a better year next year. Copeland's length gives him some potential that PB didn't have. He looked good last night. Before depth and stamina became an issue last night we played Bucknell even. Jehyve can't be replaced, but Faw and Niego and Grandy can improve from sophomore to junior. Floyd certainly improved, Sestina certainly improved over their four years. As Ralph used to say, the PL is a senior driven league and we will have six juniors with the playing experience of typical PL seniors next year. I for one am descending from the ledge. I believe RWs comment is true for all mid-majors and especially true for the IL and PL.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 8, 2019 12:33:12 GMT -5
It's amazing that we have a six person sophomore class that have all contributed and all naturally have potential to improve for next year. There isn't a talent swing and miss among them that relegated them to four years as a practice player on full scholarship that happens quite a bit at the PL level. Perhaps the value of six players playing together for the third year in a row, with a stable coaching situation, if as is likely Carm comes back, will contribute to a better year next year. Copeland's length gives him some potential that PB didn't have. He looked good last night. Before depth and stamina became an issue last night we played Bucknell even. Jehyve can't be replaced, but Faw and Niego and Grandy can improve from sophomore to junior. Floyd certainly improved, Sestina certainly improved over their four years. As Ralph used to say, the PL is a senior driven league and we will have six juniors with the playing experience of typical PL seniors next year. I for one am descending from the ledge. I believe RWs comment is true for all mid-majors and especially true for the IL and PL. 1) Colgate won the league this year and 5 of their 7 best players are Freshmen-Juniors, including 4 Frosh/Sophs. 2) Carmody's contract is up after next year. It is rare that a coach is even brought back on the final year of his contract without an extension for recruiting purposes, and we will only have one senior next year, so are we supposed to just extend him and keep kicking the can down the road hoping that the current Sophomore class just happens to win a PLC when they are Seniors?
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 8, 2019 12:38:51 GMT -5
I would not offer an extension and with the current state of small private colleges I wouldn't eat $350K next year either. Barring a compromise, I'd have Carm complete his contract and support him in his family situation...if someone made me King of Holy Cross.😊
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 8, 2019 12:42:46 GMT -5
My recollection was that RW said he recruited kids with the hope they would start blossoming as Juniors.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 8, 2019 12:48:17 GMT -5
Colgate, American, and BU will all have much more experienced squads than Holy Cross next year - and we went 0-6 against those three this season. After losing three all-PL players (including the PoY), all Bucknell did was win a share of the regular season title. Now, they say good-bye to Mackenzie and Sestina - and hello to Funk and Meeks.
Even if all HC's sophs improve, fifth place might be the best we can reasonably hope for.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 8, 2019 12:58:03 GMT -5
Even if all HC's sophs improve, fifth place might be the best we can reasonably hope for. I'm not as optimistic as hchoops is that all of the underclassmen will significantly improve. There are a couple of upperclassmen on this year's team who did not measurably improve at all. In fact, one could argue they regressed. Green, Butler, and Grandison are a nice trio. To quote HC70 regarding the guards on the team next season: "Is there any room at the inn?" Grandison and Butler will probably be forced to play the 4 a lot next year.
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Post by possum on Mar 8, 2019 12:59:18 GMT -5
Insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, that's us.
Hoops instead of making dumb comments encouraging long time fans to stop posting why don't you give us your thoughts on the now completed season: positives,negatives, areas of needed improvement, at what point if ever it's okay to discuss if the current coach is the right man for the job.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 8, 2019 13:08:35 GMT -5
Colgate, American, and BU will all have much more experienced squads than Holy Cross next year - and we went 0-6 against those three this season. After losing three all-PL players (including the PoY), all Bucknell did was win a share of the regular season title. Now, they say good-bye to Mackenzie and Sestina - and hello to Funk and Meeks. Even if all HC's sophs improve, fifth place might be the best we can reasonably hope for. Agreed - and not to pile on but Lafayette, with whom we split during the regular season, only loses one of their top 7 scorers next year. We lose JF.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 8, 2019 13:10:52 GMT -5
I would not offer an extension and with the current state of small private colleges I wouldn't eat $350K next year either. Barring a compromise, I'd have Carm complete his contract and support him in his family situation...if someone made me King of Holy Cross.😊 1) If Carmody is actually making that much, that would be outrageous. 2) What if we could bring in a guy like Kevin Bettencourt from Endicott, who has been very successful as a head coach, was a very good player in the league, has HC ties through his brother (and even wanted to come to HC but we took Kevin Hamilton and didn't have a schollie for him), and is currently not making much (I assume)? Not only would he provide some much needed life for the program, but we could get him for much, much less than Carmody and even backload his contract with raises and incentives so the money would not need to be too high in year 1 while we're still paying Carmody.
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