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Post by timholycross on Mar 9, 2019 9:48:29 GMT -5
I've enjoyed reading all the comments about seeking a new basketball coach. Yes, a lot depends on recruiting. Unfortunately, recruiting a top notch athlete to Holy Cross is a very difficult task, if not an impossible task. Keep in mind, Holy Cross is a very small liberal arts college with a limited number of academic majors. There are no garbage majors like sports management, recreation sciences, communications, etc. like there are in the universities that successfully recruit big time athletes (e.g. UConn). In addition, Holy Cross does have not a summer session. Big time athletic factories, like UConn, have 2 summer sessions, which is when a lot of athletes take courses. Please also keep in mind your top notch high school basketball player has a career goal of the NBA, not medical school or law school. A lot of these same athletes would never make it through the door of Holy Cross's admission's office. Plus, if Holy Cross wants a coach to turn the program around somehow, you're going to have to pay him big bucks with a lot of perks. We all know this will never happen. In summary, we are no longer living in the Bob Cousy basketball era. College sports is now a big time business. Therefore, having a highly successful basketball program may be just wishful thinking. Let's assume that Nathan Davis (deservedly so) takes an A10 or Big East job and the Bison were in the market for a new coach. You could replace "Holy Cross" with "Bucknell" in your post (sans the Cousy reference) and you would still have a pretty accurate statement. HC is doing (or should be doing) what everyone else in the Patriot League does (or can do), just not doing it well.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 9, 2019 10:15:06 GMT -5
I've enjoyed reading all the comments about seeking a new basketball coach. Yes, a lot depends on recruiting. Unfortunately, recruiting a top notch athlete to Holy Cross is a very difficult task, if not an impossible task. Keep in mind, Holy Cross is a very small liberal arts college with a limited number of academic majors. There are no garbage majors like sports management, recreation sciences, communications, etc. like there are in the universities that successfully recruit big time athletes (e.g. UConn). In addition, Holy Cross does have not a summer session. Big time athletic factories, like UConn, have 2 summer sessions, which is when a lot of athletes take courses. Please also keep in mind your top notch high school basketball player has a career goal of the NBA, not medical school or law school. A lot of these same athletes would never make it through the door of Holy Cross's admission's office. Plus, if Holy Cross wants a coach to turn the program around somehow, you're going to have to pay him big bucks with a lot of perks. We all know this will never happen. In summary, we are no longer living in the Bob Cousy basketball era. College sports is now a big time business. Therefore, having a highly successful basketball program may be just wishful thinking. If I may, I would suggest watching Belmont in the Ohio Valley Championship today against Ja Morant & Murray State. Belmont doesn’t have “too notch athletes” or “top notch high school players,” but they have a coach who actually gets it and play a very fundamentally sound brand of basketball. They are 26-4 this year and ranked right around 50 by KenPom. This is the type of program that we were building under RW, but everything has since been gutted by the trio of Kearney, Brown and Carmody. Time to start over again. Dave is a Rick Byrd guy, so I’m sure he’ll be tuning in. I almost forget what it’s like watching HC play a good brand of basketball that makes their opponent uncomfortable. It’s been a decade.
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Post by bison137 on Mar 9, 2019 14:50:41 GMT -5
I've enjoyed reading all the comments about seeking a new basketball coach. Yes, a lot depends on recruiting. Unfortunately, recruiting a top notch athlete to Holy Cross is a very difficult task, if not an impossible task. Keep in mind, Holy Cross is a very small liberal arts college with a limited number of academic majors. There are no garbage majors like sports management, recreation sciences, communications, etc. like there are in the universities that successfully recruit big time athletes (e.g. UConn). In addition, Holy Cross does have not a summer session. Big time athletic factories, like UConn, have 2 summer sessions, which is when a lot of athletes take courses. Please also keep in mind your top notch high school basketball player has a career goal of the NBA, not medical school or law school. A lot of these same athletes would never make it through the door of Holy Cross's admission's office. Plus, if Holy Cross wants a coach to turn the program around somehow, you're going to have to pay him big bucks with a lot of perks. We all know this will never happen. In summary, we are no longer living in the Bob Cousy basketball era. College sports is now a big time business. Therefore, having a highly successful basketball program may be just wishful thinking. Let's assume that Nathan Davis (deservedly so) takes an A10 or Big East job and the Bison were in the market for a new coach. You could replace "Holy Cross" with "Bucknell" in your post (sans the Cousy reference) and you would still have a pretty accurate statement. HC is doing (or should be doing) what everyone else in the Patriot League does (or can do), just not doing it well. One thing that would be different is that Bucknell has never paid "big bucks with a lot of perks" to any basketball coach. Doubtful they ever will.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 9, 2019 15:48:52 GMT -5
We have a summer session, but with PL rules that does not lessen a full course load for each semester.
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Post by joe on Mar 9, 2019 17:48:39 GMT -5
My summation of HC athletics is as follows:
If HC thought it could compete at high level in D1 athletics without going broke or sacrificing academic integrity it would do so. What school wouldn’t?
Based on the decisions and outcomes over the last 30 years, it logically follows that HC either does not believe the above scenario is possible, or HC does not believe it itself. Or worse - a little of both.
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wstruz71
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 82
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Post by wstruz71 on Mar 9, 2019 18:57:18 GMT -5
wstruz71 IMO Everything you wrote about big time basketball programs in relation to HC basketball is accurate. But, HC is not competing against big time programs for scholar - athletes. We are competing against small high academic colleges and playing under the same rules on an even playing field. All of us in the league are competing for the same kind of high academic players. I would assume that most posters would agree that HC can do much better and have a highly successful competitive b-ball program against the opposition in the PL. No? Thank you for your comments. They are very well put. For your information, I live in Connecticut, and I'm constantly being blitzed by media articles on UConn Athletics. When I read and hear these articles, they like to come across that UConn is the 8 Ivy League colleges in one, and their athletes are all standout students who are future Rhodes Scholars. For example, I always remember reading about Maya Moore who walked on water, was born free of original sin, and canonized as the next saint. However, I also remember Maya Moore had a trash major, something like sports science, that basically required a note from your mother to get through.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 9, 2019 19:36:27 GMT -5
Let's assume that Nathan Davis (deservedly so) takes an A10 or Big East job and the Bison were in the market for a new coach. You could replace "Holy Cross" with "Bucknell" in your post (sans the Cousy reference) and you would still have a pretty accurate statement. HC is doing (or should be doing) what everyone else in the Patriot League does (or can do), just not doing it well. One thing that would be different is that Bucknell has never paid "big bucks with a lot of perks" to any basketball coach. Doubtful they ever will. factor in what it costs to live in Lewisburg vis a vis most of Massachusetts and I doubt davis' salary is an issue
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Post by bison137 on Mar 9, 2019 20:59:46 GMT -5
One thing that would be different is that Bucknell has never paid "big bucks with a lot of perks" to any basketball coach. Doubtful they ever will. factor in what it costs to live in Lewisburg vis a vis most of Massachusetts and I doubt davis' salary is an issue His salary is definitely not an issue as far as having a reasonable lifestyle. But at $190,000, it is not an amount that would allow Bucknell to hire a coach from most other D1 programs or to hire a top assistant from a P6-conference.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 9, 2019 21:11:36 GMT -5
I don't think the line is very long among current D1 head coaches itching to take a PL job.
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Post by jkh67 on Mar 9, 2019 21:25:13 GMT -5
Dudes, I admire the 15 or so of you who post regularly. I bleed purple too, so I can definitely relate. Sadly, if Crossports is any indication, few of the thousands of our fellow Crusaders share our passion for basketball...traditionally, HC's marquee sport. We can spin all the fantasies we want, but the fact...as we all know...is that HC is a low mid-major basketball school playing in a mediocre (to be charitable) conference and that is unlikely to change anytime soon. Uncertainty about the future AD only compounds the problem. Who knows who the long term HC coach will be...a factor incredibly important to possible recruits? Frankly, if I were a basketball player with other options, I'd think long and hard before committing to HC.
The only factor that might change the program's trajectory in my view...and maybe not successfully even then...would be if former HC b'ball stalwarts were to speak out publicly in a united way. I'm talking about guys like Cousy, Heinsohn, Palazzi, Foley, Potter, Vicens, Blaney, Willard and the many others of like ilk who have proudly and successfully worn the purple. If people of that pedigree either are not interested in what happens to Crusader b'ball or will not be listened to by TPTB, the program is absolute toast.
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Post by Xmassader on Mar 9, 2019 22:27:23 GMT -5
jkh67 Agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph—a point that I made on the phone with one of your classmates an hour or so before you posted. I will try to reach out to several former players over the next 3-4 weeks and get their take on things.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 10, 2019 1:52:05 GMT -5
I still think the large class of rising juniors have a chance for a better season next year. And 16-17 this year is not the sinking of the Titanic, despite the fall off during league play. The players will probably have most of the current staff intact to work with them during the off-season. The coaching contract situation isn't as bad as Men's Hockey, and the timeline coincides with a new AD being selected and having a chance to get established before making a decision.
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Post by possum on Mar 10, 2019 7:43:41 GMT -5
Yeah finishing last in the league is really not that bad particularly when the lowest projection of any poster was 10 league wins. After next year we'll be talking about the rising seniors and how this is the year they will put it all together. In his post game interview Carmody's big concerns going into next year are three point offensive and defensive improvement. Need to take a minimum of 25 three's a game to be successful. Doesn't know what needs to be done to make zone more effective need to figure it out. Apparently rebounding not an issue. I guess going another year with a bad coach because we have worse situations in hockey and women's basketball is all you need to know about the state of HC athletics.
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billy72
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 95
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Post by billy72 on Mar 10, 2019 8:11:32 GMT -5
Years ago, we had our chance to join the Big East and we turned it down . Look at Seton Hall today ! We could have been them but instead look at where we are today !! Sad ...,.,
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Post by purplepig on Mar 10, 2019 8:32:14 GMT -5
Is there any hope of significant improvement if Carmody comes back next year? No. His hiring was a reasonable, safe choice that didn’t work out.
It’s time for change. There is no doubt about it. Compare HC with BC to Colgate under Langel. Night and day. Cross with Carmody risks becoming like Lafayette with O’Hanlon. A coach for life though nobody knows why.
Go younger. Take a risk on an assistant. Things can’t be any more miserable than they are now.
This team is going nowhere.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 10, 2019 8:52:30 GMT -5
Yeah finishing last in the league is really not that bad particularly when the lowest projection of any poster was 10 league wins. After next year we'll be talking about the rising seniors and how this is the year they will put it all together. In his post game interview Carmody's big concerns going into next year are three point offensive and defensive improvement. Need to take a minimum of 25 three's a game to be successful. Doesn't know what needs to be done to make zone more effective need to figure it out. Apparently rebounding not an issue. I guess going another year with a bad coach because we have worse situations in hockey and women's basketball is all you need to know about the state of HC athletics. Hard to disagree with much of this, possum.
Most of us here are invariably optimistic before the season starts. Next year will be no different, and when the polling is done, most of us will be predicting 17-20 wins and a deep run in the PLT. Part of the cognitive dissonance that informs this irrational exuberance comes from "Purple Bubble Syndrome" - as a group, we tend to forget there are nine other teams in this league, with capable, experienced players and coaches and good, incoming recruits. Most of us would be hard pressed to name twenty players around the rest of the league off the top of our heads, have little notion of who the incoming freshmen are other than our own, and don't basically care, because we "know" our guys are better than their guys, our system is better than their system, our coaches are better than their coaches. Unfortunately, we've had yet another reminder that it's just not true.
Next year, we may be improved - in terms of league play, it would be tough to be worse. Realistically, there are at least four or five teams that will be more experienced, more talented, and who are dealing with less loss than we will with the departure of Jehyve. Assuming the six sophs will make some great leap forward seems to me to be the (maybe inevitable) triumph of hope over experience - imho, it's a stretch to think any of them will be considered among the top fifteen players in the league by season's end, and a stretch to imagine we will finish in the first division.
Nothing wrong with wishing for the best. But tempering expectations in advance for what this team can likely accomplish may help temper the disappointment that often seems to come as such a surprise when all is said and done.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 10, 2019 8:59:25 GMT -5
Yeah finishing last in the league is really not that bad particularly when the lowest projection of any poster was 10 league wins. After next year we'll be talking about the rising seniors and how this is the year they will put it all together. In his post game interview Carmody's big concerns going into next year are three point offensive and defensive improvement. Need to take a minimum of 25 three's a game to be successful. Doesn't know what needs to be done to make zone more effective need to figure it out. Apparently rebounding not an issue. I guess going another year with a bad coach because we have worse situations in hockey and women's basketball is all you need to know about the state of HC athletics. We actually improved significantly in 3 point shooting this past season, but gave a lot of it back on the defensive end Year= HC 3 PT Pctg (rank)/Opponent 3 Pt Pctg (rank)
17-18= 32.6% (#291)/ 35.4% (#200) NOTE: PL opponents shot 35.8% versus HC, in line with OOC teams
18-19= 35.4% (#123)/ 37.3% (#314) NOTE: PL Opponents shot an insane 41.0% versus HC
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Post by gks on Mar 10, 2019 9:02:13 GMT -5
I've enjoyed reading all the comments about seeking a new basketball coach. Yes, a lot depends on recruiting. Unfortunately, recruiting a top notch athlete to Holy Cross is a very difficult task, if not an impossible task. Keep in mind, Holy Cross is a very small liberal arts college with a limited number of academic majors. There are no garbage majors like sports management, recreation sciences, communications, etc. like there are in the universities that successfully recruit big time athletes (e.g. UConn). In addition, Holy Cross does have not a summer session. Big time athletic factories, like UConn, have 2 summer sessions, which is when a lot of athletes take courses. Please also keep in mind your top notch high school basketball player has a career goal of the NBA, not medical school or law school. A lot of these same athletes would never make it through the door of Holy Cross's admission's office. Plus, if Holy Cross wants a coach to turn the program around somehow, you're going to have to pay him big bucks with a lot of perks. We all know this will never happen. In summary, we are no longer living in the Bob Cousy basketball era. College sports is now a big time business. Therefore, having a highly successful basketball program may be just wishful thinking. Your snobbery and excuse making is nauseating. There is nothing wrong with a student majoring in communications, sports management, etc. Stop over-inflating the academic load at HC. Any athlete who wants to be a real student has the same problems no matter where they are. There are plenty of outstanding, smart high school players that want to be doctors or lawyers. Not all want to go to the NBA. Why don't they want to go to Holy Cross? They want to win and play for a successful program that plays at the highest level it can achieve.This hasn't been the case for a while. And even towards the end of the RW era the talent was falling off from what it was. It's true that many don't make it through HC admissions. That's because the admissions department has been combative toward athletics for years (unless your name is Ralph Willard). Ask Tom Gilmore about his relationship with them. Bottom line is that Holy Cross handcuffs themselves. They take stupid, ridiculous PL rules to the extreme. They purposely narrow the recruiting field for coaches where the margin of error is too slim for success. Think of it this way...you're being badly out-recruited in basketball by COLGATE right now. You're right they must have sold their soul to do so. I'm sure half their team will drop out of school once the season ends to enter the NBA draft. Can HC be successful? Of course they can but you have to trust coaches on who they want to bring in.
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wstruz71
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 82
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Post by wstruz71 on Mar 10, 2019 12:17:36 GMT -5
I've enjoyed reading all the comments about seeking a new basketball coach. Yes, a lot depends on recruiting. Unfortunately, recruiting a top notch athlete to Holy Cross is a very difficult task, if not an impossible task. Keep in mind, Holy Cross is a very small liberal arts college with a limited number of academic majors. There are no garbage majors like sports management, recreation sciences, communications, etc. like there are in the universities that successfully recruit big time athletes (e.g. UConn). In addition, Holy Cross does have not a summer session. Big time athletic factories, like UConn, have 2 summer sessions, which is when a lot of athletes take courses. Please also keep in mind your top notch high school basketball player has a career goal of the NBA, not medical school or law school. A lot of these same athletes would never make it through the door of Holy Cross's admission's office. Plus, if Holy Cross wants a coach to turn the program around somehow, you're going to have to pay him big bucks with a lot of perks. We all know this will never happen. In summary, we are no longer living in the Bob Cousy basketball era. College sports is now a big time business. Therefore, having a highly successful basketball program may be just wishful thinking. Your snobbery and excuse making is nauseating. There is nothing wrong with a student majoring in communications, sports management, etc. Stop over-inflating the academic load at HC. Any athlete who wants to be a real student has the same problems no matter where they are. There are plenty of outstanding, smart high school players that want to be doctors or lawyers. Not all want to go to the NBA. Why don't they want to go to Holy Cross? They want to win and play for a successful program that plays at the highest level it can achieve.This hasn't been the case for a while. And even towards the end of the RW era the talent was falling off from what it was. It's true that many don't make it through HC admissions. That's because the admissions department has been combative toward athletics for years (unless your name is Ralph Willard). Ask Tom Gilmore about his relationship with them. Bottom line is that Holy Cross handcuffs themselves. They take stupid, ridiculous PL rules to the extreme. They purposely narrow the recruiting field for coaches where the margin of error is too slim for success. Think of it this way...you're being badly out-recruited in basketball by COLGATE right now. You're right they must have sold their soul to do so. I'm sure half their team will drop out of school once the season ends to enter the NBA draft. Can HC be successful? Of course they can but you have to trust coaches on who they want to bring in.
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wstruz71
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 82
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Post by wstruz71 on Mar 10, 2019 12:30:45 GMT -5
Thank you for your comment gks. I was a physics major at Holy Cross, and an electrical engineering major in graduate school, so I do possess a certain degree of academic snobbery. You did bring up one point I agree with. A lot of athletes who are also top notice students attend other schools, because they want to play for a winning program. For example, I bring up UConn again. Their sports programs, with the exception of football, all have winning traditions. For this reason, they have no problems recruiting top notch athletes and students. The women's basketball program, in particular, has had a lot of stand out students (e.g. Rebecca Lobo, Jennifer Rizzotti, Maya Moore). Furthermore, being a big state university, UConn has an abundance of academic majors that do not exist at Holy Cross. However, I have no objections with the Holy Cross admissions office playing hard ball with athletes, as I am dead against lowering the academic standards to let high quality athletes through the door.
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letsgohc
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 80
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Post by letsgohc on Mar 13, 2019 6:55:54 GMT -5
WORCESTER, Mass. – Holy Cross interim Director of Athletics Brendan Sullivan has announced that Melissa Batie-Smoose will not return as head coach of the Crusader volleyball program.
The change in leadership is effective immediately.
In her four years at the helm of the program, the Crusaders posted a 30-86 overall record with a 19-45 mark in Patriot League play. Holy Cross has not qualified for the Patriot League Tournament since 1995.
A national search for the program’s next head coach will begin immediately.
For the sake of the hoop program, Carmody should receive his pink slip as well.
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Post by lou on Mar 13, 2019 8:13:24 GMT -5
Old news letsgohc, see Other HC Sports post a few days ago
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letsgohc
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 80
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Post by letsgohc on Mar 13, 2019 12:59:00 GMT -5
Sorry, I was busy with my accountant trying to come up with $6M for my grandson's admission to Yale.
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Post by res on Mar 13, 2019 15:01:58 GMT -5
I didn't know he rowed.
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Post by Ray on Mar 13, 2019 15:05:12 GMT -5
He doesn't, thus the $6MM.
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