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Post by timholycross on Mar 14, 2019 14:28:23 GMT -5
I only see one reference in any of this to a "revenue" sport- it involved Penn and had nothing to do with basketball per se.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 14, 2019 14:44:39 GMT -5
Here's a good discussion topic. Although not involved in this, what are the ramifications for Holy Cross?
It's actually in HC's favor if when it comes to sports like crew and tennis; if there's no so-called "priority list". Then this sort of thing can't happen save for faking SAT tests, which is really out of any college's control (well, I guess if someone got 1000 on their SATs and 6 months later a 1500 that would raise some red flags, one would hope).
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Post by hcpride on Mar 15, 2019 9:38:20 GMT -5
Here's a good discussion topic. Although not involved in this, what are the ramifications for Holy Cross? It's actually in HC's favor if when it comes to sports like crew and tennis; if there's no so-called "priority list". Then this sort of thing can't happen save for faking SAT tests, which is really out of any college's control (well, I guess if someone got 1000 on their SATs and 6 months later a 1500 that would raise some red flags, one would hope). This has nothing to do with HC or most US colleges.
If a kid opts for 'score choice' the college has no idea about previous SAT attempts. The College Board does have a system of flagging suspicious gains (Not sure what constitutes suspicious but there was recent news about one such event).
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Post by timholycross on Mar 15, 2019 11:23:16 GMT -5
Here's a good discussion topic. Although not involved in this, what are the ramifications for Holy Cross? It's actually in HC's favor if when it comes to sports like crew and tennis; if there's no so-called "priority list". Then this sort of thing can't happen save for faking SAT tests, which is really out of any college's control (well, I guess if someone got 1000 on their SATs and 6 months later a 1500 that would raise some red flags, one would hope). This has nothing to do with HC or most US colleges.
If a kid opts for 'score choice' the college has no idea about previous SAT attempts. The College Board does have a system of flagging suspicious gains (Not sure what constitutes suspicious but there was recent news about one such event).
I think you're right about that, and in terms of that aspect of the fraud, I feel bad about the universities that have been defrauded along with the students who got there legitimately. What about priority admissions lists for sports that no one at Holy Cross cares about except the participants? Is there the change at HC that someone could slip through the cracks that way? My guess is "no", the school is too small for that sort of thing. But I may be wrong about that.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 15, 2019 11:28:36 GMT -5
the schools involved, esp USC, have not done the oversight of their coaches and admissions dept that has allowed this to occur. The schools are not the victims. The students who were rejected for the ones who bribed the coaches are the victims
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Post by hcpride on Mar 15, 2019 11:49:43 GMT -5
Fake Charity, fake ACT/SAT, fake recruited athlete. Crooked college advisors, parents, and coaches. This fairly complex and thoroughly illegal scheme might reveal pure duplicity on the part of many adults as well as lax oversight at the Colleges and testing sites.
Very different from the legal advantages that might be leveraged by the very wealthy, legacies, superior athletes, and favored minorities in the admissions process at elite universities.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 15, 2019 12:56:55 GMT -5
It used to be so simple...just pay to build them a new building, put your name on it and your kid gets admitted (no "bribes" needed).
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 15, 2019 13:00:15 GMT -5
I'm a sucker for those sappy Hallmark romance movies and see Lori often on those along with her fellow Full House alumna Candice Cameron Bure? I wonder if Hallmark will drop her as this type of conniving behavior is anathema for their sweet heroines. Done.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 15, 2019 13:32:22 GMT -5
It used to be so simple...just pay to build them a new building, put your name on it and your kid gets admitted (no "bribes" needed). That rare but legal avenue for the mega rich may still exist (the perp in the recent scheme described that as the legal but too expensive back door...and the smart kids, legacies, super athletes and URMs as going thru the legal front door...as he presented the illegal scheme - fake ACT, fake charity, coach payoff - he named the side door).
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Post by hchoops on Mar 15, 2019 13:36:52 GMT -5
Fr.Brooks’ cesspool reference comes to mind.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 15, 2019 13:40:01 GMT -5
Fr.Brooks’ cesspool reference comes to mind. 'cept when it comes to the likes of Yale, he wanted HC in that cesspool.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 15, 2019 13:42:01 GMT -5
Even Fr.B could not have envisioned the depth of this ‘pool
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Post by Tom on Mar 15, 2019 14:25:44 GMT -5
It used to be so simple...just pay to build them a new building, put your name on it and your kid gets admitted (no "bribes" needed). Buildings cost way more money than paying off a coach
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Post by Tom on Mar 15, 2019 14:29:11 GMT -5
Fr.Brooks’ cesspool reference comes to mind. I think of the cesspool as being about athletics. In general this isn't about athletics as defrauding the admission process. The cesspool certainly messes with the admission process, but as a cost in the win at all costs mentality of athletics
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Post by rickii on Mar 15, 2019 14:32:28 GMT -5
Fr.Brooks’ cesspool reference comes to mind. 'cept when it comes to the likes of Yale, he wanted HC in that cesspool. And Penn as well....
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Post by rickii on Mar 15, 2019 14:36:08 GMT -5
Fr.Brooks’ cesspool reference comes to mind. I think of the cesspool as being about athletics. In general this isn't about athletics as defrauding the admission process. The cesspool certainly messes with the admission process, but as a cost in the win at all costs mentality of athletics Don't forget pay-offs and bribery.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 15, 2019 14:46:42 GMT -5
Do not forget the bribing of coaches
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Post by hcpride on Mar 15, 2019 14:48:58 GMT -5
In the case of Yale it appears it was one or two fake recruits(for big cash) to the women's soccer team by the (now gone) women's soccer coach.
Nothing at all about 'win at all costs' (the girls didn't even play soccer at any level).
(This whole fake charity, fake SAT, fake recruit criminal enterprise really had very little to do with sports. It might be tempting to dump it in there with other scandals involving sports teams, coaches, players, and admins cutting corners to win but it really has nothing to do with that.)
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Post by hchoops on Mar 15, 2019 14:55:07 GMT -5
Greed is at the root. For a sports connection see the greed of coaches.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 15, 2019 14:59:42 GMT -5
Greed is at the root. For a sports connection see the greed of coaches. No doubt the college advisor, fraudulent SAT fella, bribed coaches, parents, etc were very greedy. It appears the kids themselves didn't know.
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Post by rickii on Mar 15, 2019 15:09:07 GMT -5
Greed is at the root. For a sports connection see the greed of coaches. No doubt the college advisor, fraudulent SAT fella, bribed coaches, parents, etc were very greedy. It appears the kids themselves didn't know. How can the kids not know ?
They certainly read their phoney bios as did their teammates.
BTW, if given a bribe of 10, 20 or $100,000 - presumedly via check - how do you deposit it in your bank account and NOT get questioned ?
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Post by hchoops on Mar 15, 2019 15:17:46 GMT -5
Not so sure about that. Kid gets recruited for a sport they cannot play ?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 15, 2019 15:55:59 GMT -5
My take on the subject was that the tie-in with the sports teams was just to lower the bar for admissions and that the parents and coaches (and students if they were in on it) had no illusion that the kids would try out for the teams. I believe the fixer approached coaches who then accepted the bribe (for themselves or the program or both) and alerted the admissions office : "Hey, be on the lookout for an application from Joe Blow--he's a student I am recruiting for my team and I'd like special consideration for him because he is such an incredible athlete". The admissions office then lowered the bar for the student who was able to clear the bar, often with help from the SAT/ACT test taker, falsified bio, etc. It didn't matter to the parents if it was the crew team, soccer team, or whatever minor sport's coach would agree to the bribe. The admissions office folks probably do not follow up with coaches on whether student-athletes show up for tryouts--they're on to the next year's applicants.
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Post by rickii on Mar 15, 2019 15:56:49 GMT -5
Not so sure about that. Kid gets recruited for a sport they cannot play ? Read at least 1 case where the kid's athletic history was totally/largely phoney and that bio was of course published on that sports team roster. She had to see it as did her teammates....some of whom were from the same area ( high schools, club teams, tourneys ). It seems impossible that a teammate didn't notice/question her background/accomplishments, no ?
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Post by rickii on Mar 15, 2019 16:01:10 GMT -5
My take on the subject was that the tie-in with the sports teams was just to lower the bar for admissions and that the parents and coaches (and students if they were in on it) had no illusion that the kids would try out for the teams. I believe the fixer approached coaches who then accepted the bribe (for themselves or the program or both) and alerted the admissions office : "Hey, be on the lookout for an application from Joe Blow--he's a student I am recruiting for my team and I'd like special consideration for him because he is such an incredible athlete". The admissions office then lowered the bar for the student who was able to clear the bar, often with help from the SAT/ACT test taker, falsified bio, etc. It didn't matter to the parents if it was the crew team, soccer team, or whatever minor sport's coach would agree to the bribe. The admissions office folks probably do not follow up with coaches on whether student-athletes show up for tryouts--they're on to the next year's applicants. As I understand it, a coach alerts admissions that he/she has X number of 'slots' for new student athletes.
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