|
|
Post by alum on Mar 20, 2019 12:03:28 GMT -5
War is the dumbest stat of all time Form 2009-2012 Ben Zobrist led all position players in WAR over the three years.Secondly did Trout ever bat 406 like Ted Williams did? Third did Trout ever bat over 400 twice like Cobb did? Trout struck out 124 times last year. He is two strike outs away from 1,000 He is very good, but he is not top five. Leaving pitchers and steroid guys off in no order Ruth, Aaron, Mays DiMaggio Gherig Mantle Williams Clemente Robinson Speaker Wagner Hornsby Musial At his position Center Field in no order Mantle Mays Cobb Griffey Jr DiMaggio 538 analyzed the Ben Zobrist WAR thing fivethirtyeight.com/features/ode-to-the-properly-rated-ben-zobrist-edition/ |
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 20, 2019 13:12:45 GMT -5
War is the dumbest stat of all time Form 2009-2012 Ben Zobrist led all position players in WAR over the three years. Secondly did Trout ever bat 406 like Ted Williams did? Third did Trout ever bat over 400 twice like Cobb did? Trout struck out 124 times last year. He is two strike outs away from 1,000 He is very good, but he is not top five. Leaving pitchers and steroid guys off in no order Ruth, Aaron, Mays DiMaggio Gherig Mantle Williams Clemente Robinson Speaker Wagner Hornsby Musial At his position Center Field in no order Mantle Mays Cobb Griffey Jr DiMaggio It's always fun to compare points of view on the great players. I do have to say that I see Clemente as a real outlier on your list --he just does not belong in the discussion with the others on your list, especially when you consider that you have not included true greats like Schmidt, Morgan, Henderson, Foxx, Brett, Mathews, Jackie Robinson, Eddie Collins, Ripken et al. Bill James has Clemente at #74 (his list includes pitchers) and I don't know that I'd have him that high myself. |
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Mar 20, 2019 13:21:17 GMT -5
Ky,
Do you have the link to James’ list ?
|
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 20, 2019 13:22:05 GMT -5
If your comparing #'s, Clemente's offense + the best RF arm ever in MLB definitely deserves a spot on the list, ahead of #42 for sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Mar 20, 2019 13:29:20 GMT -5
If your comparing #'s, Clemente's offense + the best RF arm ever in MLB definitely deserves a spot on the list, ahead of #42 for sure. For this Brooklyn native of the 50s, please be careful... |
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 20, 2019 13:32:05 GMT -5
If your comparing #'s, Clemente's offense + the best RF arm ever in MLB definitely deserves a spot on the list, ahead of #42 for sure. For this Brooklyn native of the 50s, please be careful... No one appreciates all Jackie did more than me. My grandfather grew up in Bensonhurst, and my wife's grandfather played FB with/Robinson at John Muir Tech in Pasadena. |
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Mar 20, 2019 13:42:34 GMT -5
For this Brooklyn native of the 50s, please be careful... No one appreciates all Jackie did more than me. My grandfather grew up in Bensonhurst, and my wife's grandfather played FB with/Robinson at John Muir Tech in Pasadena. Fine connections. Any stories ? My dad used to walk with me to Ebbets Field across Prospect Park. Gil Godges came to multiple Communion Breakfasts at our Church. Walter O’Malley is burning in hell. |
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 20, 2019 13:49:59 GMT -5
No one appreciates all Jackie did more than me. My grandfather grew up in Bensonhurst, and my wife's grandfather played FB with/Robinson at John Muir Tech in Pasadena. Fine connections. Any stories ? My dad used to walk with me to Ebbets Field across Prospect Park. Gil Godges came to multiple Communion Breakfasts at our Church. Walter O’Malley is burning in hell. My grandfather told me many over the years. He passed in '82. He was fan of dem bums through and through. My dad was Giants fan, and 10/3/51 is his most memorable sports day ever.
My in-laws are coming to visit for the weekend. I know my mother-in-law has photos and HS year book scribblings of her father and Jackie ribbing each other. I'll send you some.
|
|
|
|
Post by alum on Mar 20, 2019 14:45:03 GMT -5
If your comparing #'s, Clemente's offense + the best RF arm ever in MLB definitely deserves a spot on the list, ahead of #42 for sure. For this Brooklyn native of the 50s, please be careful... hoops---Did you stay a Dodgers fan when they went to LA? Are you a big Koufax guy? |
|
|
|
Post by thecrossisback on Mar 20, 2019 14:49:58 GMT -5
War is the dumbest stat of all time Form 2009-2012 Ben Zobrist led all position players in WAR over the three years. Secondly did Trout ever bat 406 like Ted Williams did? Third did Trout ever bat over 400 twice like Cobb did? Trout struck out 124 times last year. He is two strike outs away from 1,000 He is very good, but he is not top five. Leaving pitchers and steroid guys off in no order Ruth, Aaron, Mays DiMaggio Gherig Mantle Williams Clemente Robinson Speaker Wagner Hornsby Musial At his position Center Field in no order Mantle Mays Cobb Griffey Jr DiMaggio It's always fun to compare points of view on the great players. I do have to say that I see Clemente as a real outlier on your list --he just does not belong in the discussion with the others on your list, especially when you consider that you have not included true greats like Schmidt, Morgan, Henderson, Foxx, Brett, Mathews, Jackie Robinson, Eddie Collins, Ripken et al. Bill James has Clemente at #74 (his list includes pitchers) and I don't know that I'd have him that high myself. Well Clemente is my favorite player because we share a last name. But he won two World Series Had 3,000 Hits Batted a career 317 Won 12 Gold Gloves and 4 times he was NL Batting champ Was NL MVP and World Series MVP Was lightning quick on the base path and had a rocket for an arm. bleacherreport.com/articles/828480-pittsburgh-pirates-why-roberto-clemente-is-one-of-mlbs-most-underrated |
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Mar 20, 2019 14:55:42 GMT -5
Fine connections. Any stories ? My dad used to walk with me to Ebbets Field across Prospect Park. Gil Godges came to multiple Communion Breakfasts at our Church. Walter O’Malley is burning in hell. My grandfather told me many over the years. He passed in '82. He was fan of dem bums through and through. My dad was Giants fan, and 10/3/51 is his most memorable sports day ever.
My in-laws are coming to visit for the weekend. I know my mother-in-law has photos and HS year book scribblings of her father and Jackie ribbing each other. I'll send you some.
Thank you. I loved the NYTimes 100 photos of Jackie last month. How did your grandfather live with a Giant fan ? |
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Mar 20, 2019 14:58:22 GMT -5
For this Brooklyn native of the 50s, please be careful... hoops---Did you stay a Dodgers fan when they went to LA? Are you a big Koufax guy? I stayed a Dodgers fan until all the Brooklyn players were gone, then became a Gil Hodges Mets fan. Thus, yes, I am a big Koufax fan, going back to his hoops days at Lafayette. |
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 20, 2019 16:05:34 GMT -5
Ky, Do you have the link to James’ list ? See Worcester Gray's posting on page one from earlier today |
|
|
|
Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 20, 2019 16:47:56 GMT -5
Bill James is both a great, ground-breaking analyst and a terrific writer.A favorite gem from his Historical Abstract, re: Ken Griffey, Jr. . . .
"The second best left-handed hitting, left-handed throwing outfielder ever born in Donora, Pennsylvania on November 21st. My son is a ballplayer; I'm thinking of taking him to be washed in the waters of Donora."
|
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 20, 2019 17:45:18 GMT -5
Bill James is both a great, ground-breaking analyst and a terrific writer.A favorite gem from his Historical Abstract, re: Ken Griffey, Jr. . . .
"The second best left-handed hitting, left-handed throwing outfielder ever born in Donora, Pennsylvania on November 21st. My son is a ballplayer; I'm thinking of taking him to be washed in the waters of Donora."
Yes-- who would guess that the little town of Donora would produce both the great Stan Musial and both Griffeys as well |
|
|
|
Post by beaven302 on Mar 22, 2019 13:19:31 GMT -5
With no postseason success there is no way he will be top five or even top 10. 12 years is a long time Good point. I recall the Yankees' travails with the now-unproductive A-Rod during the last part of his ten-year contract. Trout may well be worth every penny for the full term of his contract, but the decline in A-Rod's production near the end of his career is a cautionary tale for all free-spending club owners. |
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Mar 22, 2019 15:37:18 GMT -5
Good point. I recall the Yankees' travails with the now-unproductive A-Rod during the last part of his ten-year contract. Trout may well be worth every penny for the full term of his contract, but the decline in A-Rod's production near the end of his career is a cautionary tale for all free-spending club owners. When the Yankees dropped money normally reserved for stud pitchers or big RBI's on lead-off hitter Ellsbury, I don't think they were counting on a guy who relies on speed being worth full value in year 8 of his contract |
|
