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Post by longsuffering on May 13, 2019 23:05:41 GMT -5
Let's just say, if it is down to the 2 I hear...let's call it a diversity hire. No problems with that in general but neither have the hands on hiring of coaches etc experience...hearing it will be announced soon, possibly tomorrow. Your little birdie is working overtime tonight. How do you get it to hover right over the transom of the meeting room? If it is a diversity hire and one of the two finalists could not attend HC before 1972, I say "Welcome aboard Ma'am." I am determined to give the new AD a chance for a while anyway. I don't know GL personally, but I was always struck at how he bristled at poor HC play as Bob Fouracre's radio color analyst for football games while all the other analysts have been reluctant to do so and always diplomatic when they did. With a school mired in a program wide slump, that type of intensity and the credibility to back it up is important. But I will be backing whoever is hired...until they have a track record that can be objectively praised or criticized.
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Post by rgs318 on May 14, 2019 5:47:34 GMT -5
Waiting until the new AD actually does something before making up your mind? That is an amazing thought! Perhaps it will start a new trend on CROSSPORTS? Personally, I would love to see GL in there, but I have to believe that the school's PTB know how important the hire is and will make every attempt to bring in a winner...at least that is my hope. I gave FCMB three seasons before making up my mind on him. When I see how the new AD [erforms, I will make up my mind then, and not before.
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Post by Ray on May 14, 2019 6:58:19 GMT -5
Just for the record before anything comes out: the characterization of anyone who's not white, male, Catholic, and preferably an alum as a "diversity hire" is downright disgraceful.... even when you couch it with a lame "y'know, not that there's anything wrong with that".
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 14, 2019 7:00:37 GMT -5
Let's just say, if it is down to the 2 I hear...let's call it a diversity hire. No problems with that in general but neither have the hands on hiring of coaches etc experience...hearing it will be announced soon, possibly tomorrow. If your little birdie is correct, then look at senior associate athletic directors in the IL, PL, or FBS schools who are women. For example, the deputy director for athletics at Yale is a woman, brought to Yale from Colgate by the AD at Yale who is also a woman, Having two women at the top of a Div I athletic program is atypical, This is her Colgate bio. gocolgateraiders.com/staff.aspx?staff=251Or a senior associate director for athletics at West Point goarmywestpoint.com/mobile/staff.aspx?staff=9Or the deputy director at PSU (the AD at PSU is near the top of NP's Rolodex) gopsusports.com/staff.aspx?staff=140I have heard, x degree of hearsay, that the compensation package is very good.
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Post by trimster on May 14, 2019 7:42:35 GMT -5
Holy Cross is not about to hire an AD from a school that spent $80,000 total on men's basketball, $179,000 on football, and where the total spending for the entire athletic program was about what HC spent just on M's basketball. By way of comparison, Div III Williams College spent 4x what Worcester State did on athletics. And hire an individual from a school that is not academically rigorous, and who has zero experience in dealing with the Academic Index? Mike Mudd ran a professional minor league team for years in a sport that HC, some will say, has higher aspirations. But that's right...he works with dopes and dummies at Worcester State so how could he possibly deal with the geniuses at HC. Public school folk need not apply. He would be an outside the box candidate. A breath of fresh air. Kind of like hiring a man with zero experience in managing a college athletic program who went on to have an outstanding 25 year career as an AD at a D1 college. Please don't say it was a different era.
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Post by Tom on May 14, 2019 8:35:00 GMT -5
Just for the record before anything comes out: the characterization of anyone who's not white, male, Catholic, and preferably an alum as a "diversity hire" is downright disgraceful.... even when you couch it with a lame "y'know, not that there's anything wrong with that". back in my day you we would have added Irish to that list. Diversity was having a white Italian Catholic
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Post by nhteamer on May 14, 2019 9:00:06 GMT -5
safe space alert
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 14, 2019 9:24:08 GMT -5
Let’s just hire the best person for the job.
The person HC hires will tell us what their thought process in the search was and if it is indeed a “diversity hire.”
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Post by hc87 on May 14, 2019 9:55:36 GMT -5
As someone who would prefer Liz Warren or Cory Booker to the current President, I have no problem with people of diverse backgrounds in a position of power/influence. (Sorry Dean W for injecting politics here tangentially)
My issue here is that (from what I've heard anyway) we basically targeted people for the position because of their background at the expense of others who I believe would have been better suited for the job.
I'll leave it as this, Gordie was very interested in taking the job, the school apparently wasn't interested in having him getting it.
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Post by purple1 on May 14, 2019 9:57:40 GMT -5
Holy Cross does not need a diversity hire, nor a bean counter - it needs a LEADER for the whole athletic department to look up to and emulate. That person at this time interval is Gordie Lockbaum !! He gets it.......intense, competitive, extremely bright and will be welcomed into every alum's living room. All the other pieces are in place from NP, they need Gordie to rejuvenate the athletic department and bring hope to all of us from a past grim 5-6 months. True leaders are few and far between, yet we have one staring us in the face, living in the community right now.
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Post by Tom on May 14, 2019 10:07:28 GMT -5
Embarrassingly, I used to be a bit of a Trekkie. Whether the new AD is male or female - white, black, yellow, red, or green - is totally irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that the next AD runs the department the way that I think it should be run.
I sincerely hope that the concept of a diversity hire is nothing more than incorrectly inferred causality. Maybe, just maybe, the best person for the job wasn't a white, Irish-Catholic male. Maybe the perception of a diversity hire is a totally misinterpreted coincidence.
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Post by CHC8485 on May 14, 2019 10:12:36 GMT -5
SOV,
So, you're saying if a woman or minority is hired it will say that it was indeed a "diversity hire"? BS.
There is no way of knowing the thought process of the search committee, no matter who is hired, because you are not doing any of the interviewing nor involved in the discussion to reach the final decision.
No matter who is hired, there is also no way to know if "the best person was hired" because you don't know who else applied, turned down the job, etc. You can't even know if the best finalist was hire because "best" is likely different for every stakeholder.
All you can do is look at 5 years from now and say the candidate hired was a good hire. Nate Pine was a good hire for fund raising and getting a facility built on time and on budget. Not so good for hiring coaches. I think most agree that the next AD needs to be better at assessing college coaching ability and all that entails. I suspect that criteria was much lower on the priority list when Pine was hired. No idea where it ranks in the thought process of the current search.
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Post by bison137 on May 14, 2019 10:28:34 GMT -5
Let's just say, if it is down to the 2 I hear...let's call it a diversity hire. No problems with that in general but neither have the hands on hiring of coaches etc experience...hearing it will be announced soon, possibly tomorrow. If your little birdie is correct, then look at senior associate athletic directors in the IL, PL, or FBS schools who are women. For example, the deputy director for athletics at Yale is a woman, brought to Yale from Colgate by the AD at Yale who is also a woman, Having two women at the top of a Div I athletic program is atypical, This is her Colgate bio. gocolgateraiders.com/staff.aspx?staff=251Yale's current AD, Vickie Chun, also came over from Colgate a few years ago.
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Post by longsuffering on May 14, 2019 10:30:54 GMT -5
These terms are a mine field. Welcome aboard to whoever is hired. If we beat Navy and Syracuse, convincingly, you can keep the job.
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Post by bringbackcaro on May 14, 2019 10:56:24 GMT -5
My issue here is that (from what I've heard anyway) we basically targeted people for the position because of their background at the expense of others who I believe would have been better suited for the job. Nope, someone who has no knowledge of the situation has already said that this definitely wasn't the case. Carry on.....
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 14, 2019 10:57:57 GMT -5
My issue here is that (from what I've heard anyway) we basically targeted people for the position because of their background at the expense of others who I believe would have been better suited for the job. This confirms what I heard. A real shame some candidates were discounted because they didn't check certain boxes.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 14, 2019 11:00:23 GMT -5
SOV, So, you're saying if a woman or minority is hired it will say that it was indeed a "diversity hire"? BS. Nope, but the two names I have heard who have received final interviews lead me to believe this is the case because I don't believe their background or experience justifies them being a legitimate candidate.
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Post by CHC8485 on May 14, 2019 11:44:10 GMT -5
And that is? I have asked on multiple occasions and have received nothing but crickets from anyone ... what is the background and experience you think Holy Cross needs in new AD? What are the critical tasks he or she will have to accomplish in the next 12 - 24 months and what will that person's resume look like to make you feel this person can get that done? What types of accomplishments do you want him or her to have?
For example - in the last search, I think most would have said the top priorities were for someone who could raise money, get a capital project complete on time and on budget, and re-structure/build an athletic department to support a Division I comprehensive athletic program. Nate Pine had strong experience in the first two.
What are they (or you) looking for now? What in a resume would tell you that person had what you're looking for?
I think a successful track record raising money, hiring coaches that improved on-field performance, and graduating student-athletes (hopefully within a high-academic environment) are the top 3 priorities this time. No idea if TPTB agree with that, but if they do, I think someone with prior experience as an Athletic Director (D2 or 3) is best positioned to demonstrated that track record. That's the type of person background I'd hope for and how I'll evaluate the hire.
Before an announcement, what do all of you think we need and what's the accomplishment you want to see on his or her resume?
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Post by bringbackcaro on May 14, 2019 11:58:24 GMT -5
And that is? I have asked on multiple occasions and have received nothing but crickets from anyone ... what is the background and experience you think Holy Cross needs in new AD? What are the critical tasks he or she will have to accomplish in the next 12 - 24 months and what will that person's resume look like to make you feel this person can get that done? What types of accomplishments do you want him or her to have? For example - in the last search, I think most would have said the top priorities were for someone who could raise money, get a capital project complete on time and on budget, and re-structure/build an athletic department to support a Division I comprehensive athletic program. Nate Pine had strong experience in the first two. What are they (or you) looking for now? What in a resume would tell you that person had what you're looking for? I think a successful track record raising money, hiring coaches that improved on-field performance, and graduating student-athletes (hopefully within a high-academic environment) are the top 3 priorities this time. No idea if TPTB agree with that, but if they do, I think someone with prior experience as an Athletic Director (D2 or 3) is best positioned to demonstrated that track record. That's the type of person background I'd hope for and how I'll evaluate the hire. Before an announcement, what do all of you think we need and what's the accomplishment you want to see on his or her resume? You continue to characterize this hiring process as if it's the same as hiring a doctor, engineer, or some other professional where you can tell exactly what that person's qualifications are strictly by reading a resume. The job of an athletic director is not rocket science, and does not require any specific degrees, licenses, certificates, etc. for an individual to be successful. I'll use Gordie as an example against the qualifications you mentioned above: 1) Record of raising money: he has had some type of unofficial leadership position in raising money for the Crusader Athletic Fund. He has also built a successful insurance business 2) Hiring coaches: Gordie was one of the most successful athletes in HC history, played for the most successful coach in HC football history, and has been around sports his whole life. I'm willing to bet he has a good idea of what makes a good coach. 3) Graduating student-athletes: The policies of HC admissions as it relates to athletes is well documented, as are the constraints that the College places on teams as it relates to scheduling and travel. The Athletic Director has about as much impact on whether or not students are graduating as the weather. Holy Cross is a well-oiled machine in attracting top student-athletes and putting them in an environment where they will graduate. A new Athletic Director is not going to change that, even if he/she/they/them/they're/it wants to. If you just look at Gordie's professional resume, he doesn't check off either of those two relevant qualities. In reality, if you consider the full package including all of his intangibles, he has about as much of a chance (if not a better chance) of being a home run in both of those categories as anyone who has spent their career working in athletic departments.
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Post by gks on May 14, 2019 12:01:14 GMT -5
And that is? I have asked on multiple occasions and have received nothing but crickets from anyone ... what is the background and experience you think Holy Cross needs in new AD? What are the critical tasks he or she will have to accomplish in the next 12 - 24 months and what will that person's resume look like to make you feel this person can get that done? What types of accomplishments do you want him or her to have? For example - in the last search, I think most would have said the top priorities were for someone who could raise money, get a capital project complete on time and on budget, and re-structure/build an athletic department to support a Division I comprehensive athletic program. Nate Pine had strong experience in the first two. What are they (or you) looking for now? What in a resume would tell you that person had what you're looking for? I think a successful track record raising money, hiring coaches that improved on-field performance, and graduating student-athletes (hopefully within a high-academic environment) are the top 3 priorities this time. No idea if TPTB agree with that, but if they do, I think someone with prior experience as an Athletic Director (D2 or 3) is best positioned to demonstrated that track record. That's the type of person background I'd hope for and how I'll evaluate the hire. Before an announcement, what do all of you think we need and what's the accomplishment you want to see on his or her resume? You continue to characterize this hiring process as if it's the same as hiring a doctor, engineer, or some other professional where you can tell exactly what that person's qualifications are strictly by reading a resume. The job of an athletic director is not rocket science, and does not require any specific degrees, licenses, certificates, etc. for an individual to be successful. I'll use Gordie as an example against the qualifications you mentioned above: 1) Record of raising money: he has had some type of unofficial leadership position in raising money for the Crusader Athletic Fund. He has also built a successful insurance business 2) Hiring coaches: Gordie was one of the most successful athletes in HC history, played for the most successful coach in HC football history, and has been around sports his whole life. I'm willing to bet he has a good idea of what makes a good coach. 3) Graduating student-athletes: The policies of HC admissions as it relates to athletes is well documented, as are the constraints that the College places on teams as it relates to scheduling and travel. The Athletic Director has about as much impact on whether or not students are graduating as the weather. Holy Cross is a well-oiled machine in attracting top student-athletes and putting them in an environment where they will graduate. A new Athletic Director is not going to change that, even if he/she/they/them/they're/it wants to. If you just look at Gordie's professional resume, he doesn't check off either of those two relevant qualities. In reality, if you consider the full package including all of his intangibles, he has about as much of a chance (if not a better chance) of being a home run in both of those categories as anyone who has spent their career working in athletic departments. Yes but Gordie has no experience scheduling buses or ordering uniforms.....
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Post by WCHC Sports on May 14, 2019 12:23:12 GMT -5
It's all noise until the person comes in and performs. Whether it's someone that "looks" good on paper, or doesn't, a surprise is almost equally likely-- can they overachieve or will they underachieve?
All I am looking for is accountability, and for circumstances and consequences I agree with. I want someone who will put in place people or processes that get excellent coaches that can either out-recruit the competition, out coach the diamonds in the roughs, or do both. I want someone who will be able to make sure the students graduate in 4-5 years. I want someone who will promote a big-time atmosphere around our premiere sports. And I want someone who will drop the axe if those achievements aren't met.
Worse than losses on the field will be a mediocre product across the department without any real motivation or impetus to change and perform. MAGIS BABY.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 14, 2019 12:37:19 GMT -5
For those supposedly in the know, who is the current chair of the BoT Committee on Athletics? Does anyone know the names of any of the members of said committee? Or of the associate members, if there are such? The by-laws allow committees to have associate members, who are not themselves members of the BoT. As an illustrative example, someone like a GL could be an associate member of the BoT's Committee on Athletics.
I would think knowing the names of one or more of these individuals might speak volumes about the search and the results. .
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Post by bison137 on May 14, 2019 12:50:49 GMT -5
SOV, So, you're saying if a woman or minority is hired it will say that it was indeed a "diversity hire"? BS. There is no way of knowing the thought process of the search committee, no matter who is hired, because you are not doing any of the interviewing nor involved in the discussion to reach the final decision. No matter who is hired, there is also no way to know if "the best person was hired" because you don't know who else applied, turned down the job, etc. You can't even know if the best finalist was hire because "best" is likely different for every stakeholder. All you can do is look at 5 years from now and say the candidate hired was a good hire. Nate Pine was a good hire for fund raising and getting a facility built on time and on budget. Not so good for hiring coaches. I think most agree that the next AD needs to be better at assessing college coaching ability and all that entails. I suspect that criteria was much lower on the priority list when Pine was hired. No idea where it ranks in the thought process of the current search. Yes, it will take a few years to judge how good any AD hire is. Fwiw, four other PL schools have hired new AD's in the last two years. All would fall into one of the categories of diversity: - Bucknell - African-American male - Colgate - White female (replaced Asian-American female) - Lafayette - African-American female - Loyola - White female
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Post by CHC8485 on May 14, 2019 13:51:33 GMT -5
You continue to characterize this hiring process as if it's the same as hiring a doctor, engineer, or some other professional where you can tell exactly what that person's qualifications are strictly by reading a resume. The job of an athletic director is not rocket science, and does not require any specific degrees, licenses, certificates, etc. for an individual to be successful. No, I'm not strictly reading a resume. It is others who have said when we make a hire we will know if it was a “diversity hire” with no regard for what he or she brings outside of their resume. They are looking at the resume and making a judgement having never spoken to the person. And no I'm not treating this like hiring a rocket scientist etc. I am looking at this hire the same way you look at any hire in any business. Whether it's CEO or custodian, you select people to interview based on their past accomplishment. And hire based on a judgement of their ability fit a set of criteria/qualities you believe necessary to accomplish the goals of the the position. If you bring an outside the box candidate into the process it's because there is typically inside knowledge of that candidate, what they bring to the table, and what you are looking for. Gordie absolutely fits that as an out of the box candidate. But, if I gave you Gordie's resume, changed the name to Gordon Ramsey and replaced Holy Cross with Fairfield or Providence, you wouldn't give it a second look. Gordie - righfully - gets consideration because of his intangibles, "transferable skills," connection to and passion for Holy Cross, but you don't write the job description or describe your generic ideal candidate based on an outside the box candidate. I'd be thrilled if Gordie were hired. Apparently that's not going to happen. But that does not mean that a 15 year career athletic administrator doesn't have the necessary skill set or won't be successful. Some here are acting otherwise. I'm just asking folks to say in general what are the objectives of the next AD and what are the criteria you are looking for in candidates. Few have offered anything other than win more.
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Post by bringbackcaro on May 14, 2019 14:32:06 GMT -5
You continue to characterize this hiring process as if it's the same as hiring a doctor, engineer, or some other professional where you can tell exactly what that person's qualifications are strictly by reading a resume. The job of an athletic director is not rocket science, and does not require any specific degrees, licenses, certificates, etc. for an individual to be successful. No, I'm not strictly reading a resume. It is others who have said when we make a hire we will know if it was a “diversity hire” with no regard for what he or she brings outside of their resume. They are looking at the resume and making a judgement having never spoken to the person. ..... I agree with most of your other points, but to clarify, others have said this because they have knowledge of how the process has actually occurred. When the list of all of the potential candidates gets whittled down to what was the supposed final 3 are, it's pretty darn hard to argue otherwise.
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