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Post by bringbackcaro on May 13, 2019 8:45:50 GMT -5
Instilling a mindset that you can't beat an opposing team's best pitcher with your best pitcher does not prepare the team for success in the postseason.
6-team league, 12 seasons, 1 championship -- Holy Cross should not settle for average (at best) coaches, but I guess that is the new normal.
Maybe we should just bring back Paul Pearl to coach both Hockey and Baseball to save some more money. He'd be an upgrade over both of the current guys.
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Post by thecrossisback on May 13, 2019 9:04:12 GMT -5
Holy Cross down 5-2 in the ninth inning brought the tying run to the plate with no outs in the inning. Peter Dudunakis struck out which was followed by the weirdest play according to the live stats, Wolf flied out to cf, SF, RBI (2-2 BFFBFF); Gionis out at second cf to ss; Volpi scored. How the heck does the potential "fourth" run get doubled off in the ninth inning when down by three runs? Army ended up winning 5-3 as that ended the game. The runner did not tag the base, he must have ran too early for third. Being at the game, we were like what just happened.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 13, 2019 9:11:03 GMT -5
Given that the USMA and USNA have 'unlimited scollies, how do the other PL teams fare in terms of spending on baseball, and when compared to the Ivies, Fordham, and Georgetown?
$ in thousands, 2017-18 Fordham 1325 Columbia 1029 Georgetown 917 Lafayette 825 Lehigh 752 Yale 660 Cornell 614 Harvard 613 Dartmouth 555 Brown 488 Bucknell 487 UPenn 473 Princeton 467 HC 459
The Ivies include zero fin aid money. This data indicates to me that of the six PL teams, the service academies, Lafayette, and Lehigh award significant fin aid, and Bucknell and HC award little or none.
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Post by hcbball on May 13, 2019 9:27:03 GMT -5
Best wishes to the seniors, some of whom may have hung up their cleats for good. I'm sure baseball has been an identity of theirs for many years and now must transition to the real world. I suspect Cronin will get drafted. Barlok moving to Wake. Maybe Gionis, McGowan and McCormick will play twilight leagues as they begin their new careers.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 13, 2019 9:29:21 GMT -5
Instilling a mindset that you can't beat an opposing team's best pitcher with your best pitcher does not prepare the team for success in the postseason. Very true. Maybe Dvorak wasn't that sharp last night because he was forced to come in relief the day before to close out game two. I can understand the mindset, when going up against Top 50 competition, of looking to pick off a game by throwing one of your top guys later in the weekend, but doing so against PL competition is pretty weak. If we are extending softball coaches with abysmal records and keeping Carmody as head coach of men's hoops, DiCenzo isn't going anywhere. In fact, he may have earned himself an extension after this season.
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Post by hcbball on May 13, 2019 9:37:14 GMT -5
One can make the argument that Burg was Army's best starter, so they employed the same approach.
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Post by hcpride on May 13, 2019 10:34:23 GMT -5
One can make the argument that Burg was Army's best starter, so they employed the same approach. Army's game 1 starter improved to 8-4 with the win while our game 1 starter took the loss to finish at 2-9 this year.
(Beyond that, our game 1 loss meant game 2 was an absolute must-win...which pretty much forced our coach to use our game 3 starter to hold on to the win...which is not optimal considering game 3 was the very next day.)
Personally, I thought our best chance for a series win was to employ our top two starters (both 1st Team All-PL) the first two games. Figuring that West Point would have the advantage in the bullpen and batting.
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Post by hchoops on May 13, 2019 10:51:39 GMT -5
One can make the argument that Burg was Army's best starter, so they employed the same approach. Army's game 1 starter improved to 8-4 with the win while our game 1 starter took the loss to finish at 2-9 this year.
(Beyond that, our game 1 loss meant game 2 was an absolute must-win...which pretty much forced our coach to use our game 3 starter to hold on to the win...which is not optimal considering game 3 was the very next day.)
certainly not ideal, but Dvorak threw only 9 pitches in game 2
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Post by Ray on May 13, 2019 10:58:04 GMT -5
W-L is an idiotic way to measure caliber of pitching, but that's not the point here. Messina is pretty clearly AWP's 3rd best starter based on results in PL play. Burg is #1, Gio #2.
I'm pretty sure Coach D spends more time thinking about this stuff than anyone on this board, and from a game theory perspective I don't have any problem with how he played this. If you start your #1 and lose Game 1, you're in a giant hole. If you start McGowan first, you've got options... maybe he pitches well and eats some innings and gets you into the bullpens with the game in doubt. Maybe you get an early lead and decide to bring in one of your top two guys out of the pen at that point. Or maybe McGowan gets beat up and your worst-case scenario is that you have to sweep the next two, but have your two best SP lined up, at home, with a fresh bullpen as well.
Bottom line: planning for 27 IP over two days, when you have about 3.5 reliable pitchers, is a tough nut to crack.
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Post by hcpride on May 13, 2019 11:44:31 GMT -5
/\ /\ Actually, the worse case scenario of starting #3 in game 1 and losing is that you lose game 2 and are out of a series without using your #1. The nightmare scenario. (To avoid such a scenario we had to use our game three starter [AKA #1] as a reliever in game 2. Fortunately, he helped us to hold on and win game 2. Of course, we still had to start him the next day).
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Post by hcpucks on May 13, 2019 11:48:05 GMT -5
Coach D must have felt that PM was his # 1 at game time. You cant start your # 3 in game 1 of a 3 game series. And save your # 1 for the 3rd game cause that may never happen. That is nuts. But in this case, if you think LD is your #1, you can question the decision all you want but you got (your) # 1 in game 3 and we just lost. With the exception of the 9 pitches on Sat, the strategy worked out perfect with a limited pitching staff. Except for the result.
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Post by hcbball on May 13, 2019 12:12:29 GMT -5
PM gave up 3 runs in 7 innings. That's not why they lost.
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Post by bfoley82 on May 13, 2019 12:13:14 GMT -5
/\ /\ Actually, the worse case scenario of starting #3 in game 1 and losing is that you lose game 2 and are out of a series without using your #1. The nightmare scenario. (To avoid such a scenario we had to use our game three starter [AKA #1] as a reliever in game 2. Fortunately, he helped us to hold on and win game 2. Of course, we still had to start him the next day).
Actually the way to do it is to start your number 1 guy in game 2...Either you are up 1-0 or needing a win down 1-0
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Post by bringbackcaro on May 13, 2019 12:23:27 GMT -5
W-L is an idiotic way to measure caliber of pitching, but that's not the point here. Messina is pretty clearly AWP's 3rd best starter based on results in PL play. Burg is #1, Gio #2. I'm pretty sure Coach D spends more time thinking about this stuff than anyone on this board, and from a game theory perspective I don't have any problem with how he played this. If you start your #1 and lose Game 1, you're in a giant hole. If you start McGowan first, you've got options... maybe he pitches well and eats some innings and gets you into the bullpens with the game in doubt. Maybe you get an early lead and decide to bring in one of your top two guys out of the pen at that point. Or maybe McGowan gets beat up and your worst-case scenario is that you have to sweep the next two, but have your two best SP lined up, at home, with a fresh bullpen as well. Bottom line: planning for 27 IP over two days, when you have about 3.5 reliable pitchers, is a tough nut to crack. If we only have 3.5 reliable pitchers, perhaps Coach D should spend less time thinking about this stuff and more time on recruiting and player development. Bunt less. Don't start a sub-optimal starter in Game 1. Recruit more. Simple solution!
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Post by hcross22 on May 13, 2019 13:00:38 GMT -5
W-L is an idiotic way to measure caliber of pitching, but that's not the point here. Messina is pretty clearly AWP's 3rd best starter based on results in PL play. Burg is #1, Gio #2. I'm pretty sure Coach D spends more time thinking about this stuff than anyone on this board, and from a game theory perspective I don't have any problem with how he played this. If you start your #1 and lose Game 1, you're in a giant hole. If you start McGowan first, you've got options... maybe he pitches well and eats some innings and gets you into the bullpens with the game in doubt. Maybe you get an early lead and decide to bring in one of your top two guys out of the pen at that point. Or maybe McGowan gets beat up and your worst-case scenario is that you have to sweep the next two, but have your two best SP lined up, at home, with a fresh bullpen as well. Bottom line: planning for 27 IP over two days, when you have about 3.5 reliable pitchers, is a tough nut to crack. Bingo.
McGowan DID pitch well and DID eat some innings. The team scored 1 run. If Mcgowan gave up 2 runs instead of the 3 he did give up, they still lose. I don't see why the complaints about how the rotation was set up. McGowan finished the season strong, he's a senior who has pitched some huge games in his career, and coming into the year was your #1/2 starter.
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Post by hcross22 on May 13, 2019 13:03:31 GMT -5
W-L is an idiotic way to measure caliber of pitching, but that's not the point here. Messina is pretty clearly AWP's 3rd best starter based on results in PL play. Burg is #1, Gio #2. I'm pretty sure Coach D spends more time thinking about this stuff than anyone on this board, and from a game theory perspective I don't have any problem with how he played this. If you start your #1 and lose Game 1, you're in a giant hole. If you start McGowan first, you've got options... maybe he pitches well and eats some innings and gets you into the bullpens with the game in doubt. Maybe you get an early lead and decide to bring in one of your top two guys out of the pen at that point. Or maybe McGowan gets beat up and your worst-case scenario is that you have to sweep the next two, but have your two best SP lined up, at home, with a fresh bullpen as well. Bottom line: planning for 27 IP over two days, when you have about 3.5 reliable pitchers, is a tough nut to crack. If we only have 3.5 reliable pitchers, perhaps Coach D should spend less time thinking about this stuff and more time on recruiting and player development. Bunt less. Don't start a sub-optimal starter in Game 1. Recruit more. Simple solution! So which is it? Should he spend more time thinking about the rotation, or less time recruiting? Maybe more time training/stretching his players so he doesn't lose two starters to injury?
(can't argue on the bunt thing....when he had Masel bunt in G1 w/1 out and a man on first down 2 runs, I nearly screamed. I was at the game sitting on the Army side and one of their fans said "what are they doing")
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Post by Ray on May 13, 2019 13:14:21 GMT -5
/\ /\ Actually, the worse case scenario of starting #3 in game 1 and losing is that you lose game 2 and are out of a series without using your #1. The nightmare scenario. (To avoid such a scenario we had to use our game three starter [AKA #1] as a reliever in game 2. Fortunately, he helped us to hold on and win game 2. Of course, we still had to start him the next day).
This is a fallacy. Even if you have full faith in your #1, he can only win you one game in the series. If you can't find a way to win another game, it doesn't matter. Ergo, if you lose game 1 and 2 it doesn't matter if your ace was guaranteed to throw a no-hitter in Game 3. You weren't advancing anyway.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 13, 2019 13:55:02 GMT -5
Regardless of how we lost, we lost.
Given the terrible state of the majority of the programs within HC athletics, I assume that CGD's job is safe, but I'm not sure in 12+ years as head coach it should be.
Since 2008, Lafayette has not won a PLC, HC and Lehigh have won one, and Army, Navy, and Bucknell have won multiple.
A new men's basketball and men's hockey coach should be the priority, but don't think baseball should be far behind.
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Post by hcross22 on May 13, 2019 14:19:43 GMT -5
Regardless of how we lost, we lost. Given the terrible state of the majority of the programs within HC athletics, I assume that CGD's job is safe, but I'm not sure in 12+ years as head coach it should be. Since 2008, Lafayette has not won a PLC, HC and Lehigh have won one, and Army, Navy, and Bucknell have won multiple. A new men's basketball and men's hockey coach should be the priority, but don't think baseball should be far behind. $ in thousands, 2017-18 Fordham 1325 Columbia 1029 Georgetown 917 Lafayette 825 Lehigh 752 Yale 660 Cornell 614 Harvard 613 Dartmouth 555 Brown 488 Bucknell 487 UPenn 473 Princeton 467 HC 459
Considering those numbers, do you think another coach could do better?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 13, 2019 14:31:38 GMT -5
Regardless of how we lost, we lost. Given the terrible state of the majority of the programs within HC athletics, I assume that CGD's job is safe, but I'm not sure in 12+ years as head coach it should be. Since 2008, Lafayette has not won a PLC, HC and Lehigh have won one, and Army, Navy, and Bucknell have won multiple. A new men's basketball and men's hockey coach should be the priority, but don't think baseball should be far behind. $ in thousands, 2017-18 Fordham 1325 Columbia 1029 Georgetown 917 Lafayette 825 Lehigh 752 Yale 660 Cornell 614 Harvard 613 Dartmouth 555 Brown 488 Bucknell 487 UPenn 473 Princeton 467 HC 459
Considering those numbers, do you think another coach could do better?
This is surprising. Source? Lafayette has been at the bottom of the PL for years in baseball, yet they are spending the most (Army and Navy aside)? Joe Kinney, their head coach, is about 80 games under .500 in the PL during his career at Lafayette, yet he still has a job and Lafayette spends that much on baseball? Something doesn't add up.
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Post by longsuffering on May 13, 2019 17:19:13 GMT -5
Regardless of how we lost, we lost. Given the terrible state of the majority of the programs within HC athletics, I assume that CGD's job is safe, but I'm not sure in 12+ years as head coach it should be. Since 2008, Lafayette has not won a PLC, HC and Lehigh have won one, and Army, Navy, and Bucknell have won multiple. A new men's basketball and men's hockey coach should be the priority, but don't think baseball should be far behind. $ in thousands, 2017-18 Fordham 1325 Columbia 1029 Georgetown 917 Lafayette 825 Lehigh 752 Yale 660 Cornell 614 Harvard 613 Dartmouth 555 Brown 488 Bucknell 487 UPenn 473 Princeton 467 HC 459
Considering those numbers, do you think another coach could do better?
On a cost adjusted basis Coach D has the baseball smarts of Tony LaRussa and the wit of Casey Stengel. Without PP's excellent research I assumed HC would try to leverage it's National Championship heritage in baseball and the nifty stadium payed for by the long defunct Worcester Tornadoes to showcase the Crusader baseball program, but they apparently aren't doing it with actual dollars. If you subtract the rental fee from the current summer tenants, the Worcester Bravehearts, the net amount spent on baseball is even a bit less.
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Post by purplehaze on May 13, 2019 18:55:31 GMT -5
Lowest budget plus best facility and worst weather location in the league - all adds up to a respectable but not championship program. Thank you Title IX (which means schollie $ for softball but not baseball)
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Post by longsuffering on May 13, 2019 19:24:01 GMT -5
So far baseball is faring better on less schollie $ than softball, but the softball coach has the IAD's confidence so that is a hopeful sign. Baseball gets the better facility but softball gets more scholarship money. Paging B. Foley '82 if he's reading this. With his photographer's eye for design and many college fields to compare, how would he upgrade the softball facility if a reasonable budget was available?
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Post by longsuffering on May 13, 2019 20:03:25 GMT -5
Given that the USMA and USNA have 'unlimited scollies, how do the other PL teams fare in terms of spending on baseball, and when compared to the Ivies, Fordham, and Georgetown? $ in thousands, 2017-18Fordham 1325 Columbia 1029 Georgetown 917 Lafayette 825 Lehigh 752 Yale 660 Cornell 614 Harvard 613 Dartmouth 555 Brown 488 Bucknell 487 UPenn 473 Princeton 467 HC 459 The Ivies include zero fin aid money. This data indicates to me that of the six PL teams, the service academies, Lafayette, and Lehigh award significant fin aid, and Bucknell and HC award little or none. To keep things in perspective. let's update this list with a few other traditional opponents and their baseball spending: Boston University: 0 Providence College 0 Colgate University 0 (1886-1996 R.I.P.) University of Vermont 0 University of New Hampshire 0
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Post by bfoley82 on May 13, 2019 20:30:58 GMT -5
So far baseball is faring better on less schollie $ than softball, but the softball coach has the IAD's confidence so that is a hopeful sign. Baseball gets the better facility but softball gets more scholarship money. Paging B. Foley '82 if he's reading this. With his photographer's eye for design and many college fields to compare, how would he upgrade the softball facility if a reasonable budget was available? Probably Brown’s is the most feasible with Bryant close by brownbears.com/facilities/?id=20www.bryantbulldogs.com/information/Facilities/SoftballStadium
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