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Post by Dean Wormer on Jun 19, 2019 9:04:50 GMT -5
All,
Just deleted a post. Let's refrain from characterizing people we don't know based on their twitter feed. You want to throw shade on them on their Twitter feed, I guess that's what Twitter does, but don't do it here.
Carry on.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jun 19, 2019 9:41:20 GMT -5
Some Darren Rovell math on the Carmody years:
-Milan Brown buyout: $350,000 X 1 year -Carmody: $350,000 X 4 years -28 regular season PL wins
(salary numbers are estimates and may actually be higher)
Holy Cross paid $62,500 per PL win.
Let's hope Marcus Blossom has a better handle on things than his predecessor.
----------------------------
As a comparison, I believe Bucknell is paying Nathan Davis ~$250K.
($250K X 4 years) / 58 PL Wins = $17,241 per win.
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Post by rickii on Jun 19, 2019 9:46:53 GMT -5
longsuffering -
I think if Coach Carmody felt up to it he could have led HC for the final year of his contract and then graciously retired and that would have been fine with ADMB and TPTB, and actually fit the timeline of the new MB administration better than this retirement timing. That was never an option nor would it be for any program.
That situation would be poison for recruiting and used against us by opponents/other schools.
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Post by jkh67 on Jun 19, 2019 9:49:44 GMT -5
I get where Wade’s dad is coming from to some extent (trying to watch out for his son, etc.) but he and the others in the class signed up to play for a 67 year-old coach who basically sleep walked his way to a .443 winning percentage the past 4 seasons (including an absolutely horrendous .389 in the PL), finished in last place in the league last year, didn’t get one of his recruits on an all-league team, was extremely stubborn to his system that hasn’t worked since the 90s, and refused to play freshmen unless absolutely necessary.
It’s not like they were about to start playing for John Wooden in the middle of his UCLA run.If Marcus Blossom knows what he’s doing, these kids will be playing for a better coach who will give them a much higher chance of having successful basketball careers at HC. I don't know that I'd agree that Carmody basically "sleep walked his way" through his time in Worcester, but his tenure was not a success (aside from that miracle...and non-duplicable... run to the NCAAs in his first year). That much about his Holy Cross record is incontrovertible, however many different opinions there may be about the causes of the sad state of HC hoops for the last decade or so. As MM67 points out, we can talk all we want about the glories of Collegium Sanctae Crucis as a recruiting tool, but the principal draw for high quality players is a high quality head coach. The selection of the next head coach is thus a key moment for HC basketball. The school should take as much time as necessary to assure we get the best possible person for the job, even if the result is some instability and uncertainty in the near term.
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Post by CHC8485 on Jun 19, 2019 10:40:04 GMT -5
Some Darren Rovell math on the Carmody years: -Milan Brown buyout: $350,000 X 1 year -Carmody: $350,000 X 4 years -28 regular season PL wins (salary numbers are estimates and may actually be higher)Holy Cross paid $62,500 per PL win.Let's hope Marcus Blossom has a better handle on things than his predecessor. ---------------------------- As a comparison, I believe Bucknell is paying Nathan Davis ~$250K. ($250K X 4 years) / 58 PL Wins = $17,241 per win. That's fair, but don't forget to add the additional revenue the PL (and HC ) receives for an NCAA tournament win. The PL gets an extra unit for HC's 2016 win in the PIG - yup revenue sharing-wise a PIG win is the same as a round of 64 win. So, the PL gets at least 7 units a year from 2017 - 2022 and if I'm reading the PL governance correctly, from that HC recieved 0.7 units in 2017 from the PL because they played and won a game and received/will receive an extra 0.2 units (in addition to the standard PL distribution) in 2018 - 2022. No need to re-do your math as the horse is sufficiently beaten into dust. Just note that you've cherry picked data to make your now (hopefully retired) point since both Pine and Carmody are gone.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 19, 2019 10:45:30 GMT -5
longsuffering -
I think if Coach Carmody felt up to it he could have led HC for the final year of his contract and then graciously retired and that would have been fine with ADMB and TPTB, and actually fit the timeline of the new MB administration better than this retirement timing. That was never an option nor would it be for any program.
That situation would be poison for recruiting and used against us by opponents/other schools.
This suggests the retirement was a joint cooperative effort between two parties both buying into the unwritten rules of D-1 basketball/football and the Coach will be paid his full final year salary with the departure being harmonious as opposed to adversarial and the search firm was all cued up and ready to go. I'm still learning this unwritten code so you may be right, or the situation could be as straightforward as it has been presented in the press release statements. I guess when the compensation for key employees for 2019-20 has to be released we will have more insight. My current sense is HC is not that cutthroat and the facts are basically as presented, but don't know for sure.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 19, 2019 11:25:21 GMT -5
One question related to the cherry-picked facts above. HC will not be paying anything to an employee who chooses to retire, IMHO. And, each win was actually a win. PL wins do not count a different amount than doc wis, do they? Unless, that is, one is trying to tailor numbers to prove a predetermined bias. And, will "forgetting" the last seasons tip-off title now be forgotten by Carmody critics in the way they "forgot" to include the PLT title for so long in their custom data sets?
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Post by crusader12 on Jun 19, 2019 12:01:20 GMT -5
One question related to the cherry-picked facts above. HC will not be paying anything to an employee who chooses to retire, IMHO. And, each win was actually a win. PL wins do not count a different amount than doc wis, do they? Unless, that is, one is trying to tailor numbers to prove a predetermined bias. And, will "forgetting the last seasons tip-off title now be forgotten by Carmody critics in the way they "forgot" to include the PLT title for so long in their custom data sets? "HC will not be paying anything to an employee who chooses to retire" Wrong.
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Post by possum on Jun 19, 2019 12:04:41 GMT -5
Unfortunately the thrill of the tipoff title victory vanished with the last place finish in the PL.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 19, 2019 13:11:39 GMT -5
Some Darren Rovell math on the Carmody years: -Milan Brown buyout: $350,000 X 1 year -Carmody: $350,000 X 4 years -28 regular season PL wins (salary numbers are estimates and may actually be higher)Holy Cross paid $62,500 per PL win.Let's hope Marcus Blossom has a better handle on things than his predecessor. ---------------------------- As a comparison, I believe Bucknell is paying Nathan Davis ~$250K. ($250K X 4 years) / 58 PL Wins = $17,241 per win. Bill Carmody is gone and is never coming back to coach at Holy Cross again. Can you not be satisfied with that? You should be the happiest man in America now. Celebrate and then let it go.
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Post by possum on Jun 19, 2019 13:33:50 GMT -5
Agree Carmody is gone and I'm happy about that but should be looking ahead not back anymore.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 19, 2019 14:27:07 GMT -5
One question related to the cherry-picked facts above. HC will not be paying anything to an employee who chooses to retire, IMHO. And, each win was actually a win. PL wins do not count a different amount than doc wis, do they? Unless, that is, one is trying to tailor numbers to prove a predetermined bias. And, will "forgetting the last seasons tip-off title now be forgotten by Carmody critics in the way they "forgot" to include the PLT title for so long in their custom data sets? That is correct. Carmody has retired effective June 30, the end of the college's fiscal year. (In effect, the timing was such that he gave two weeks notice.) July 1 is the start of the new fiscal year and typically the start date for those on annual contracts. AFAIK, all the assistants are on one year contracts and would be paid the full amount, unless they were to voluntarily leave before June 30, 2020. If the assistants were to be involuntarily separated (without good cause) during the one year contract period, they most likely would receive the full one year salary.
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Post by breezy on Jun 19, 2019 14:29:22 GMT -5
Did anybody stop and think that Coach Carmody's decision to retire at this time might have been due to a change in his wife's medical condition?
I've written before of my own experience with my wife's cancer diagnosis and eventual death, and I don't want to dwell on that, but my thought is that if he had decided to retire as a personal decision, he could have done so at the end of the season. The timing leads me to think that something (perhaps related to his wife's medical condition) triggered his retirement now. Sure, the timing is unfortunate, but I think just a tidbit of empathy is appropriate right now.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jun 19, 2019 14:48:16 GMT -5
Some Darren Rovell math on the Carmody years: -Milan Brown buyout: $350,000 X 1 year -Carmody: $350,000 X 4 years -28 regular season PL wins (salary numbers are estimates and may actually be higher)Holy Cross paid $62,500 per PL win.Let's hope Marcus Blossom has a better handle on things than his predecessor. ---------------------------- As a comparison, I believe Bucknell is paying Nathan Davis ~$250K. ($250K X 4 years) / 58 PL Wins = $17,241 per win. Bill Carmody is gone and is never coming back to coach at Holy Cross again. Can you not be satisfied with that? You should be the happiest man in America now. Celebrate and then let it go. Are post-mortems banned for every topic? Talking about a game after it ends probably also doesn't matter because the game is over and it's not starting again? Re: Carmody, I am very pleased that this program now has a chance to end the dumpster fire that has been 10 consecutive years with sub-part head coach. However, I will only be happy if we hire someone who can turn the program around. As I said many times, I have nothing personal against Carmody and just want to see HC win. The simple fact that Bill Carmody is no longer the coach at HC doesn't really mean anything to me. What matters is that we had a coach who was doing a very poor job and he is no longer the coach. The three most important positions within HC athletics are the AD, Men's Basketball Head Coach, and Football Head Coach. Six months ago, two of those roles were populated by guys who were a horrible fit for their jobs. We now have a chance to be in a position where all three can be filled with people who give us a chance to succeed. That is very exciting.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 19, 2019 15:02:55 GMT -5
One question related to the cherry-picked facts above. HC will not be paying anything to an employee who chooses to retire, IMHO. And, each win was actually a win. PL wins do not count a different amount than doc wis, do they? Unless, that is, one is trying to tailor numbers to prove a predetermined bias. And, will "forgetting the last seasons tip-off title now be forgotten by Carmody critics in the way they "forgot" to include the PLT title for so long in their custom data sets? "HC will not be paying anything to an employee who chooses to retire" Wrong. Why? If HC chooses to do so or such a payment is stipulated in the contract it is possible, but where is the obligation other than a contract provision?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 19, 2019 15:03:41 GMT -5
Did anybody stop and think that Coach Carmody's decision to retire at this time might have been due to a change in his wife's medical condition? I've written before of my own experience with my wife's cancer diagnosis and eventual death, and I don't want to dwell on that, but my thought is that if he had decided to retire as a personal decision, he could have done so at the end of the season. The timing leads me to think that something (perhaps related to his wife's medical condition) triggered his retirement now. Sure, the timing is unfortunate, but I think just a tidbit of empathy is appropriate right now. breezy, I agree. Coach Carmody absented himself from road games this past season so that he could care for his wife. I suspect he and the incoming AD had a conversation about his wife's condition some days ago, and whether her condition and/or treatment would require him spending much of his time in the forthcoming season caring for her.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 19, 2019 15:10:30 GMT -5
If Carmody was unable to travel to some road games during the PL season last year, then I can't imagine he was on the road recruiting this summer. Clearly, his wife's health made things really difficult for Carmody and the team. I would have hoped he and the school could have figured out a mutual parting of ways following the season, rather than him stepping away in June.
The timeline doesn't exactly make sense to me. If he was going to retire, why wouldn't he have done so in April?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 19, 2019 15:28:27 GMT -5
..... The timeline doesn't exactly make sense to me. If he was going to retire, why wouldn't he have done so in April? It would make sense to someone undergoing multi-stage cancer treatment. I am not going to speculate, but, illustratively, if option A did not result in reemission, then option B (if one exists) is tried, and so on, until one is 'cured' or the doctors run out of options. And again illustratively, 'good news' in April can become 'not-so-good news' in June after another scan.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 19, 2019 15:33:14 GMT -5
Good question. Coach Carmody could even have been asked by Holy Cross to defer a final retirement decision until the new AD was in place to manage the hiring of what is arguably the most important position in HC Athletics. The vibe I am picking up is that nobody was forced to do anything, both Carm and HC are in a good place with this transition and it is a mutual admiration society between them. The players and parents will need some hand holding but the full staff minus Carm is there for that.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 19, 2019 15:34:32 GMT -5
..... The timeline doesn't exactly make sense to me. If he was going to retire, why wouldn't he have done so in April? It would make sense to someone undergoing multi-stage cancer treatment. I am not going to speculate, but, illustratively, if option A did not result in reemission, then option B (if one exists) is tried, and so on, until one is 'cured' or the doctors run out of options. And again illustratively, 'good news' in April can become 'not-so-good news' in June after another scan. A sensitive and sensible statement, PP.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 19, 2019 15:59:45 GMT -5
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Post by timholycross on Jun 19, 2019 16:06:48 GMT -5
I will qualify one thing in my rant on Mr. Wade. The NCAA rules may be so restrictive when it comes to transfers that him commenting on Twitter might be one of the only ways of getting the message out that his son is interested in considering other schools. He may have no choice other than make it public.
(edit) Since that tweet about #options it seems like most of his posts are more than fair and reserved given the circumstances.
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Post by DiMarz on Jun 19, 2019 16:13:51 GMT -5
With the team and the 4 incoming freshman on campus, one has to wonder when Coach talked to them and let them know what he was doing..I'm sure Coach didn't let them find out via the Worcester Telegram....So they have had the knowledge longer than we have....I would love to be a fly on the wall in the dorm and hear what the players would like in a new head coach...
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jun 19, 2019 16:17:01 GMT -5
..... The timeline doesn't exactly make sense to me. If he was going to retire, why wouldn't he have done so in April? It would make sense to someone undergoing multi-stage cancer treatment. I am not going to speculate, but, illustratively, if option A did not result in reemission, then option B (if one exists) is tried, and so on, until one is 'cured' or the doctors run out of options. And again illustratively, 'good news' in April can become 'not-so-good news' in June after another scan.
Could not agree with this more.....based on personal experience.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 19, 2019 20:17:14 GMT -5
Unfortunately the thrill of the tipoff title victory vanished with the last place finish in the PL. It's right up there with the Worcester County National Bank Tournament in my mind, minus the theme song "Worcester County National, it's so rational" sung by Steve Allen sitting at his piano. Beating Siena twice in one season is another unforgettable thrill. The Crusaders were strutting across the Northeast during the OOC schedule and the majority of the team is back and another year further (not farther, right?) along in their development. The new coach will not face a bare cupboard.
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