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Post by longsuffering on Jun 22, 2019 23:39:00 GMT -5
My mistake....I get the A10 and CAA confused because they changed charters. Regardless, the NEC is not letting Sacred Heart and Bryant and the Patriot is not letting Holy Cross damage their own football leagues I get the A-10 and CAA confused, too. I hate to give the Ancient Snobs credit but the Ivy League is the gold standard for continuity and symmetry. League hopping has an air of desperation about it. It might be best to get Men's Hockey into H.E., then dominate both the P.L. and H.E. for a few years before moving conferences to provide a better challenge. If UMass and UConn drop back to FCS it will give us two great new/old OOC opponents. We can tell the Monmouths and the Towsons we'll get back to them.
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Post by alum on Jun 23, 2019 7:25:01 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Jun 23, 2019 7:44:56 GMT -5
IMHO BIg East is great for UConn (and the Big East) and it they are smart (and if the CAA is willing) they'll move football to the CAA. Win for the Big East, Win for UConn and Win for the CAA.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 23, 2019 8:19:49 GMT -5
I don't get it from the current membership perspective. As a state land grant university among 10 private schools, 9 of them Catholic and with a current enrollment ~ 33% higher than the next largest school in the Big East (UConn 31,700; DePaul 23,800) UConn just seems like a bad fit. A bit like BU in the PL. But if it happens, an 11 team conference seems so sloppy and unbalanced from a scheduling standpoint. Hmmmm .... if only there were another Catholic school ... Its not so bad a fit when it comes to renegotiating the NBE broadcast rights contract. _______________________________________ Surprised me that UConn had a 'profit' of nearly $4 million on football in 2017-18. A small profit of $100,000+ on men's hoops, and lost an unknown amount of money on women's hoops (expenses of $7.4 million). UConn's U/G enrollment is 18,445. UMass, wandering in the sports desert, lost money on football, M/W basketball. Football expenses were $10 million, UConn's football expenses were $15.1 million _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Boston College had a profit of $8.4 million on football, $400,000 on men's basketball, and lost $3.5 million on women's basketball. BC's women's basketball expenses were $3.4 million less than Geno's, so just imagine how much GA's team loses. _ _ _ _ _ _ Revenue men's hoops 2017-18, $ in million, and profit, if any.Butler 7.5M +2.0M Creighton 9.0M loss DePaul 7.1M loss Georgetown 12.8M loss Marquette 19.7M +7.6M Providence 10.8M loss Seton Hall 6.3M loss St. John's 8.3M loss Villanova 17.6M +3.8N Xavier 13.1M +5.0M Villanova has made a profit of $2-3 million on men's basketball for four of the last five years (ending in 2017-18). Lost money in 2016-17 on expenses of $11.1M Xavier owns its on-campus arena, as does Butler 2017-18 season Creighton average attendance was 17,000. Marquette attendance 20 games average was 12,300 Villanova average attendance was 11,800 Only BE schools in the top 30. No idea why Marquette has such a profit. Marquette started playing in a new arena in 2018-19, Marquette's rental terms on the old arena. www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/08/15/marquette-signs-7-year-deal-bring-mu-basketball-new-arena/568148001/Marquette's rent for the new arena is not described. However, the lease is for only seven years. www.jsonline.com/story/money/real-estate/commercial/2018/12/14/marquette-looked-building-its-own-downtown-basketball-arena/2280320002/
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Post by rf1 on Jun 23, 2019 8:29:27 GMT -5
Pakachoag Phreek-Where are you getting numbers that say UConn football is profitable? There were many newspaper reports just a few months ago that had the athletic department expenses some $40M more than revenues per its filing with the NCAA. The football program had an $8.7 million deficit; men’s basketball lost about $5 million; and women’s basketball, a perennial power, lost just over $3 million. UConn reports more than $40 million athletic deficit
Further on the money front, keep in mind that UConn may have to pay the AAC a $10M exit fee and may also have to pay the Big East an undetermined entrance fee. On top of that, the school is involved in court proceedings arguing it should not have to pay fired men's basketball coach Kevin Ollie some $10M per his contract as it claims he was fired for just cause.
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Post by rf1 on Jun 23, 2019 9:02:23 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 23, 2019 9:57:36 GMT -5
Fascinating article rf1. Best line in the whole analysis: "Army's not leaving the Patriot League." To the AAC regarding the $10 million exit fee, take a number and get in line behind Kevin Ollie. The Big East should pay part of it to get UConn, but apparently it doesn't work that way. I see UConn as a get for the Big East and it looks like the CAA would be a good landing spot for UConn FB, and that's a plus for future HC OOC schedules. If the CAA for some reason doesn't want them or charges too high an entrance fee and UConn wanted to join the PL for FB only, I'd say welcome aboard, and pay what you can afford to, which is nothing.
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Post by Ray on Jun 23, 2019 10:18:44 GMT -5
Fascinating article rf1. Best line in the whole analysis: "Army's not leaving the Patriot League." The Big East should pay part of it to get UConn, but apparently it doesn't work that way. I see UConn as a get for the Big East You're right, doesn't work this way. UConn was desperate and the BE held all of the cards in this negotiation. You can bet that UConn is on their own to negotiate their AAC exit.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 23, 2019 13:33:46 GMT -5
Yes and UConn will be on their own paying the Millions in annual pensions for Jim Calhoun and Geno until the last spouse dies for each. Like most I regret Father Brooks' decision to not join the BE, but he did steer us away from $10 million dollar exit and entrance fees. And remarkably we were this close to beating UConn in football two years ago. With Coach Chesney we've got the excitement of open ended possibilities instead of the dread of Autumn in the Nutmeg State.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 23, 2019 14:59:00 GMT -5
In football, swapping UConn for James Madison is an upgrade for the AAC even with the current JMU* squad, which has 65 scholarships. Basketball, not so much, although in a year JMU will have an arena larger than Gampel.
*they lost to Colgate, but I'd have bet the Raidahs even up in a game w/the UConns.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 23, 2019 16:43:02 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 23, 2019 17:22:47 GMT -5
Pakachoag Phreek-Where are you getting numbers that say UConn football is profitable? There were many newspaper reports just a few months ago that had the athletic department expenses some $40M more than revenues per its filing with the NCAA. The football program had an $8.7 million deficit; men’s basketball lost about $5 million; and women’s basketball, a perennial power, lost just over $3 million. UConn reports more than $40 million athletic deficit
Further on the money front, keep in mind that UConn may have to pay the AAC a $10M exit fee and may also have to pay the Big East an undetermined entrance fee. On top of that, the school is involved in court proceedings arguing it should not have to pay fired men's basketball coach Kevin Ollie some $10M per his contract as it claims he was fired for just cause.
It is not clear how that newspaper got to the numbers it included in the article.. Mine were from the Title IX reports, which are directly derived from the NCAA Annual Report on Revenue and Expenses, and the source of the numbers below. It would be a Federal felony to deliberately and materially misrepresent the data in a Title IX report. The Title IX reports are generated by the institution, electronically. . For 2017-18Football Revenue $18,955,517 Expenses $15,135,138 Operating Expenses $4,164,126 The Courant also has an article, which is apparently based on the NCAA Annual Report on Revenue and Expenses. www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-uconn-sports-athletic-department-finances-revenue-expenses-20190117-2wdp5gimnvhlliwykl6npcmy7u-story.htmlBut the difference in year would not account for the large discrepancy, particularly as the overall totals for all sports are similar for both 2017-18 and 2018-19 as indicated by the newspaper articles. UConn football revenue / expenses as presented in Title IX reports 2015-16 $17.6M / $16.9M 2016-17 $25.9M / $20.5M 2017-18 $19.0M / $15.1M
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Post by rf1 on Jun 23, 2019 20:01:44 GMT -5
Pakachoag Phreek-Where are you getting numbers that say UConn football is profitable? There were many newspaper reports just a few months ago that had the athletic department expenses some $40M more than revenues per its filing with the NCAA. The football program had an $8.7 million deficit; men’s basketball lost about $5 million; and women’s basketball, a perennial power, lost just over $3 million. UConn reports more than $40 million athletic deficit
Further on the money front, keep in mind that UConn may have to pay the AAC a $10M exit fee and may also have to pay the Big East an undetermined entrance fee. On top of that, the school is involved in court proceedings arguing it should not have to pay fired men's basketball coach Kevin Ollie some $10M per his contract as it claims he was fired for just cause.
It is not clear how that newspaper got to the numbers it included in the article.. Mine were from the Title IX reports, which are directly derived from the NCAA Annual Report on Revenue and Expenses, and the source of the numbers below. It would be a Federal felony to deliberately and materially misrepresent the data in a Title IX report. The Title IX reports are generated by the institution, electronically. . For 2017-18Football Revenue $18,955,517 Expenses $15,135,138 Operating Expenses $4,164,126 The Courant also has an article, which is apparently based on the NCAA Annual Report on Revenue and Expenses. www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-uconn-sports-athletic-department-finances-revenue-expenses-20190117-2wdp5gimnvhlliwykl6npcmy7u-story.htmlBut the difference in year would not account for the large discrepancy, particularly as the overall totals for all sports are similar for both 2017-18 and 2018-19 as indicated by the newspaper articles. UConn football revenue / expenses as presented in Title IX reports 2015-16 $17.6M / $16.9M 2016-17 $25.9M / $20.5M 2017-18 $19.0M / $15.1M
I suspect that your numbers may include the student fees subsidy as revenue. The Hartford Cournat, other CT newspapers, and ESPN reported a few months ago about a $40M+ shortfall between revenues and expenses.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 24, 2019 6:31:37 GMT -5
rf1, the Title IX reports do not identify revenue by source. If a particular sport shows a 'profit', then one can rightfully assume that the revenue for that sport represents generated revenue, and no university subsidy from general funds.
Notre Dame's athletic program is one of the few where the Title IX report compares revenue and expense by major / minor sport, and there is zero university subsidy.
Expenses / Revenue (in millions) in 2017-18 Football $42.8M / $107.4M M's hoops $6.9M / $3.6M W's hoops $6.7M / $1.7M All other men's sports $17.4M / $4.7M All other women's sports $16.9M / $1.6M Not allocated by sport $44.9M / $30.4M
Total 'profit' for athletics: about $15M
Women's sports, total generated revenue was $3.4M., and expenses totaled $23.5M
At Notre Dame, where there is no university subsidy, every other sport loses money big-time.
Football's 'profit' of $65 million basically funded the rest of the athletic program at Notre Dame, -- and then some. And this illustrates why football rules the roost when it comes to decisions about athletic policies and programs for most of FBS. ______________ Men's ice hockey Expenses / revenue 2017-18
Boston College $4.3M / $2.7M Notre Dame $5.4M / $2.3M
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 24, 2019 12:46:09 GMT -5
The 2018 Women's NCAA Basketball National Championship cost ND $5 million. Well worth it because you could spend more and get less attendance/advertising/TV/radio revenue with a losing program and end up paying the salary of both a terminated coach and a new coach. Plus how do you put a price tag on the value of the ND pep band blasting the ND fight song on ESPN throughout the month of March?
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Post by hchoops on Jun 24, 2019 13:20:28 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 24, 2019 15:40:31 GMT -5
Nice article Hoops. The football analysis did not mention anything about FCS being an option for UConn football. Probably because those in the know feel it is not realistic, but that is the option that would give HC a chance to play them more regularly. If UConn goes FBS independent they would be looking for opponents, but they could only play one or two FCS games a year and would have an abundance of choices. I think UConn would be an attractive opponent for most scholarship FCS teams because the FCS team would have a decent shot of winning, although there wouldn't be any big financial payday.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 24, 2019 16:18:54 GMT -5
Someone can correct me but I thought they could play more D-IAA teams than that but they just wouldn't "count" towards bowl consideration. Since they really probably have no chance of a bowl bid anyway if they go the independent route, might they want to load up on more than two at first to build their record and confidence level? Then wean off the smaller fish in subsequent years.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 24, 2019 16:43:48 GMT -5
I don't think too many HC fans would get fired up over seeing HC play the worst 1A squad in the country again anytime soon other than for convenience among some CT residents to see HC play nearby.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 24, 2019 17:16:13 GMT -5
I was happy to see the Crusaders take on the Huskies and would gladly go again. And I don't even live in Connecticut. They may or may not be the worst team in D-IA but that would still be a greater challenge than some other teams HC plays. And, I like the idea of going into a game against a team we have a fighting chance to beat. Fully understanding the payoff should be a lot greater against Syracuse, I'd prefer t get less money and play UConn. 1. Yes, it's closer for most HC fans and the result is an away game with an audience that is almost 50/50 UConn/HC, 2. the money still helps pay the freight for the program, 3. less chance of our players getting seriously hurt and 4. we can actually beat them. So, what's not to like?
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Post by bison137 on Jun 24, 2019 19:12:23 GMT -5
It won't be as big as Gampel - about 1300 fewer seats. But it will be a bit larger than the original Gampel. To put things in perspective, JMU has more undergrads than UConn has in Storrs. And Harrisonburg has a lot more people than Storrs. So they should have a chance to fill their arena if they produce a quality product.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 24, 2019 20:53:21 GMT -5
Someone can correct me but I thought they could play more D-IAA teams than that but they just wouldn't "count" towards bowl consideration. You are correct that you are only supposed to be able to count one FCS win towards the six needed for bowl eligibility. What I dont know is whether or not this rule is regularly enforced due to the amount of bowl games and warm bodies needed to fill them. Several years ago, numerous 5-7 teams went to bowls out of necessity (I thought they should've invited FCS teams with winning records that missed the playoffs, obviously a pipe dream). Army has played two FCS teams in many recent seasons -- one year they played two against the PL alone. Something tells me the Armed Forces Bowl wouldn't tell them no if they went 6-6. There is also technically a rule that you cant count FCS wins against schools below a certain scholarship threshold which would include the Ivy League, Pioneer League and Georgetown. Again, not sure how heavily this rule is enforced.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 24, 2019 21:09:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. With regards to who the AAC replaces UCONN with, neither of my top two guesses were listed. I would think the AAC would look to add an established program whose recent and long-term pedigrees of success would immediately add to the league's overall strength. This is a conference looking to earn CFP berths and turn the P5 into the P6. That's why I dont see them adding someone like Georgia State, North Texas or even James Madison. My top three candidates would be: Marshall - name a place where this program hasn't been successful Southern Miss - a strong program in the "old" CUSA for years competing with likes of Louisville, ECU, Houston, TCU and USF. And program is on the rise again. UAB - the state of Alabama is definitely somewhere you want to have as part of your footprint. And I see more upside here than at Troy or South Alabama. Both on field and market-wise in state's largest city. Looking strictly at markets, Old Dominion and Charlotte are very attractive as well but they still have a lot to prove program-wise in the short term. Also Rice has old rivalries with the AAC West teams but as analogised on this board a couple times, they are the Holy Cross of FBS.
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Post by bison137 on Jun 24, 2019 22:07:14 GMT -5
Someone can correct me but I thought they could play more D-IAA teams than that but they just wouldn't "count" towards bowl consideration. You are correct that you are only supposed to be able to count one FCS win towards the six needed for bowl eligibility. What I dont know is whether or not this rule is regularly enforced due to the amount of bowl games and warm bodies needed to fill them. Several years ago, numerous 5-7 teams went to bowls out of necessity (I thought they should've invited FCS teams with winning records that missed the playoffs, obviously a pipe dream). Army has played two FCS teams in many recent seasons -- one year they played two against the PL alone. Something tells me the Armed Forces Bowl wouldn't tell them no if they went 6-6. There is also technically a rule that you cant count FCS wins against schools below a certain scholarship threshold which would include the Ivy League, Pioneer League and Georgetown. Again, not sure how heavily this rule is enforced. The rule is enforced. That is why there is the provision to allow 5-7 teams into Bowls if there aren't enough teams that qualify. For a game against a FCS school to count, the rule requires that school to give out 90% of the max number of equivalencies - which calculates to giving out 56.7 equivalencies. Note that the rule talks about equivalencies - not scholarships - which means need-based athletic aid also counts. Thus certain NEC schools count, even thought they don't award 50+ scholarships. Not sure how they count the Ivy's.. Prior to the PL having scholarships, Lehigh, Fordham, Colgate, and Lafayette all had enough equivalencies for a FBS school to count a win against them.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 24, 2019 22:13:38 GMT -5
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