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Post by JRGNYR on Aug 7, 2019 8:16:00 GMT -5
IIRC, HC did a study of the cost of NBE membership, and found that it would be expensive. Among the reasons: 1.) Again IIRC, the NBE was mandating that schools play in a venue that sat at least 6,000. For HC, this meant renting the DCU. 2.) Travel costs for non-revenue NBE conference sports. Other factors. NBE conference sports were fewer in number than in the PL, so either HC would drop sports or find another conference(s) to affiliate with for those sports. The participation model is important for HC.
At the time that the NBE was forming, funding for much of the Luth had been secured but not booked, and the Luth emphasizes support of HC's field sports. With regard to funding for Luth, in conversations with several of TPTB at GU , they said that Fr. B, then on his way to Worcester, was further ahead with obtaining money for what would be Luth than GU was in securing funding for what became the Thompson basketball practice facility, which, if memory serves, cost $65 million. I think the numbered reasons are way more significant than the bolded (emphasis mine). In reality, the BE sponsors just about the same sports that the PL does, with football and rowing being the two exceptions. In terms of sport affiliation and the participation model, very little would change for HC in that regard if anything like this happened. Way more of concern would be flying soccer, volleyball and baseball teams to places like Omaha, Cincinnati and Indianapolis.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Aug 7, 2019 18:17:10 GMT -5
I think the numbered reasons are way more significant than the bolded (emphasis mine). In reality, the BE sponsors just about the same sports that the PL does, with football and rowing being the two exceptions. In terms of sport affiliation and the participation model, very little would change for HC in that regard if anything like this happened. Way more of concern would be flying soccer, volleyball and baseball teams to places like Omaha, Cincinnati and Indianapolis. The HC men's soccer team travels to Santa Clara this year. Volleyball is playing in Chicago, and baseball had travel series last season at Baylor, UAB, and Nicholls State. Travel isn't the issue it once was. In the end, Rev. Boroughs didn't want to open the door that Rev. Brooks unceremoniously closed in 1979. The HC basketball tradition is left with travel games at Loyola and Army that draw less than 500 each rather than crowds of 17,000 at Creighton or Marquette.
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Post by JRGNYR on Aug 7, 2019 18:59:15 GMT -5
I think the numbered reasons are way more significant than the bolded (emphasis mine). In reality, the BE sponsors just about the same sports that the PL does, with football and rowing being the two exceptions. In terms of sport affiliation and the participation model, very little would change for HC in that regard if anything like this happened. Way more of concern would be flying soccer, volleyball and baseball teams to places like Omaha, Cincinnati and Indianapolis. The HC men's soccer team travels to Santa Clara this year. Volleyball is playing in Chicago, and baseball had travel series last season at Baylor, UAB, and Nicholls State. Travel isn't the issue it once was. In the end, Rev. Boroughs didn't want to open the door that Rev. Brooks unceremoniously closed in 1979. The HC basketball tradition is left with travel games at Loyola and Army that draw less than 500 each rather than crowds of 17,000 at Creighton or Marquette. Those are singular trips, likely with some level of a guarantee attached to them. It's much different when you're talking about regular flights in conference play.
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Post by purplehaze on Aug 7, 2019 19:28:19 GMT -5
There are absolutely no guarantees for HC to play on the west coast. Strictly a nice trip to reward the efforts of our student athletes who are laboring in our Olympic sports and lose no class time in August
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 7, 2019 20:11:25 GMT -5
I’m not really “in the know” when it comes to what TPTB are thinking. However, from what I’ve heard, if BE membership were somehow to become an option, I’m almost certain the answer would be “yes” before anyone took even 5 minutes to worry about non-revenue sports and associated travel. Whatever sports we sponsor that the Big East doesn’t would find a home somewhere else. Our women’s golf team used to be in the BIG SOUTH when I was in school— it worked out just fine.
After all, Patriot League membership requires [gasp] flights to DC and Baltimore for games against AU, Navy, Loyola and Georgetown football. Our hockey team flies to Air Force at least every other year. To be fair, when I was a student, the only teams flying to DC/Baltimore regularly were M/W basketball and football. Maybe some exceptions depending on class schedule but don’t think so. Hoops even flew to Philly for the St Joes game in fall 2007.
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Post by HC92 on Aug 7, 2019 21:54:58 GMT -5
We’re not joining the BIg East.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 8, 2019 6:07:20 GMT -5
I specifically asked someone who would have known, whether HC looked at the cost of joining the NBE, and was told yes.
I am of the view that DeGioia may have been quite skeptical that TPTB at HC would be willing to spend the kind of money necessary to be competitive in the NBE. Here HC would be, with the smallest enrollment in the NBE, trying to play scollie football, M/W scollie ice hockey, and NBE hoops in a rented arena.,
DeGioia certainly knows how much GU loses every year on men's basketball playing in a venue it rents, and it is a sobering thought. (Marquette is now apparently planning on building an on-campus arena because it can no longer afford the venue rent. If Marquette does, shows how much GU is now held hostage by not having its own-campus arena, and no space for such.) .
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Post by trimster on Aug 8, 2019 6:43:56 GMT -5
Makes me wonder how a small college like PC does it although they don't have football or baseball for that matter. Can't be cheap to rent the Dunk.
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Post by rf1 on Aug 8, 2019 9:19:03 GMT -5
Creighton 2x, last in 1956 DePaul 2x, last in 1953 Georgetown 20x, last in 1980 Marquette 4x, last in 2003 Providence 69x, last in 2019 St. John's 23x, last in 2012 Seton Hall 24x, last in 1987 Villanova 3x, last in 1968 Xavier 3x, last in 1981 Six games against Providence in the last 27 years. Rivalries against Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Villanova began in the 1920s. Six games against PC in 27 years is low for how far the two schools are apart. You would think Cooley would be up for a game at the DCU Center on a weekend and HC would want that too as PC hoops fans will travel.
It is not just Holy Cross.
Six is double the number of games that UConn has played former rival URI in an even longer period. URI has rarely played UConn (just 56 miles away) since Calhoun first (1986-87) took over as there have just been 3 meetings in the last 32 years (since 1987). The last meeting was all the way back in 2000. Despite nearly never having played one another in recent decades, UConn is Rhody's 3rd most played opponent (143) and URI is still far and away UConn's all time most played opponent by almost 30 games (UNH is 2nd at 115). The two schools first met back in 1907 and played nearly every year, sometimes several times in a season. The two remarkably played each other every year uninterupted from 1916-1981 not even pausing for the wars. The last four meetings were all in CT with UConn not playing URI in the state of RI since 1985.
The Holy Cross history with Providence is also actually not what most probably think. The nostalgia is stronger than the facts. PC is only the ninth most played opponent for Holy Cross with just 69 total games. The Crusaders have played BC, Harvard, Dartmouth, Fordham and many of the Patriot League teams more. PC is poised to fall out of the top ten most played in the next 1-2 years. The most played team is BC at 112 games.
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Post by gks on Aug 8, 2019 11:19:05 GMT -5
Makes me wonder how a small college like PC does it although they don't have football or baseball for that matter. Can't be cheap to rent the Dunk. Rent for the Providence CC (old school) has to be much cheaper than where Georgetown plays...is it still the Verizon Center? G'Town shares with Capitols and Wizards and the arena is in a much more larger, and expensive city. PC is the main tenant (I'd say P-Bruins play 2nd fiddle) in the arena and have been there for years. I would think they probably have a decent deal.
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Post by Ray on Aug 8, 2019 12:39:00 GMT -5
I specifically asked someone who would have known, whether HC looked at the cost of joining the NBE, and was told yes. Did you ask the Big East is they looked at adding us? Because the answer is very likely different.
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Post by rf1 on Aug 8, 2019 15:12:54 GMT -5
Why would Cooley be up for a game at the DCU when he can buy HC, I assume, at the Dunk? Cooley played a game at Brown... The Friars visit to Brown in 2012 was their first in 51 games. Last "trip" there before that had been back in 1972. Counting this upcoiming season, PC wil not have played crosstown Brown for two straight seasons. Apparently 124 games of shared history means little these days. Brown winning two of the last five games played between the teams probably didn't help.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 8, 2019 19:28:40 GMT -5
Cooley played a game at Brown... Brown winning two of the last five games played between the teams probably didn't help. Thats it right there.
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Post by bfoley82 on Aug 10, 2019 3:07:56 GMT -5
Makes me wonder how a small college like PC does it although they don't have football or baseball for that matter. Can't be cheap to rent the Dunk. Rent for the Providence CC (old school) has to be much cheaper than where Georgetown plays...is it still the Verizon Center? G'Town shares with Capitols and Wizards and the arena is in a much more larger, and expensive city. PC is the main tenant (I'd say P-Bruins play 2nd fiddle) in the arena and have been there for years. I would think they probably have a decent deal. Providence averaged 9542 last year so they are doing pretty well at the gate. Here is the deal “PC pays a rental fee of roughly $35,000 per game to play 18 games a season at the Dunk. While the school retains its ticket revenue, the building keeps all concession, luxury suite and parking fees. That relationship is strained, however, and the two sides haven't agreed on a lease for other issues since 2009.” www.google.com/amp/s/www.providencejournal.com/news/20180222/pc-dunk-relationship-is-on-thin-ice%3ftemplate=ampart
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Post by gks on Aug 10, 2019 8:00:50 GMT -5
Rent for the Providence CC (old school) has to be much cheaper than where Georgetown plays...is it still the Verizon Center? G'Town shares with Capitols and Wizards and the arena is in a much more larger, and expensive city. PC is the main tenant (I'd say P-Bruins play 2nd fiddle) in the arena and have been there for years. I would think they probably have a decent deal. Providence averaged 9542 last year so they are doing pretty well at the gate. Here is the deal “PC pays a rental fee of roughly $35,000 per game to play 18 games a season at the Dunk. While the school retains its ticket revenue, the building keeps all concession, luxury suite and parking fees. That relationship is strained, however, and the two sides haven't agreed on a lease for other issues since 2009.” www.google.com/amp/s/www.providencejournal.com/news/20180222/pc-dunk-relationship-is-on-thin-ice%3ftemplate=ampartWow that 's a little surprising. Would have thought City of Providence and PC would have had friendlier relationship.
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 10, 2019 8:16:15 GMT -5
The "grass is always greener" when viewed from. a distance.
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Post by rf1 on Aug 10, 2019 8:56:43 GMT -5
The DDC in Providence, now owned by a state agency, continues to lose money every year. It in no way will ever be able to pay for itself (purchase by state and renovation) . It is not much different than other similar facilities as spending $100M of public money on sporting and entertainment venues rarely makes financial sense. In addition to ticket revenue, PC makes substantial money off the sale of seat licenses. Season ticket holders must first pay this additional fee in order for the right to purchase tickets in much of the arena's prime sections. The school keeps 100% of the revenue from this source. PC however wants more flexibility on arena dates and likely wants a cut of concession, suites, and parking. A struggling arena is not going to be open to that. PC's rent is all it has ever paid for the arena. This rent didn't even go up all that much after the venue was significantly upgraded in a 2008 renovation PC heavily lobbied for. The chairman of the RI Convention Center Authority board (David Duffy) that pushed and sold the state purchase and renovation was none other than a PC alumnus, former BOT member, and partner in the longtime Duffy and Shanley marketing firm (PC president Father Shanley's father was the other principal partner) for the original Big East. His vice chairman at the authority was the former PC head coach, AD, and founder of the Big East - Dave Gavitt. They successfully got the state to 100% finance their $100M plan with no outside private investment. The DDC was a stark contrast to the more recent proposed Pawsox stadium in Pawtucket where the state was very begrudgingly only willing to invest $23M.
While the DDC continues to struggle, PC is doing very well. Never having had to invest a single penny in a big ticket arena, it has been able to spend on many other capital projects on its campus. It has built a new $30M practice facility dedicated just to men's basketball program. The Schneider Arena hockey venue recently underwent major upgrades and a new soccer facility was built. Several new academic buildings have gone up and a road that once bisected the campus was closed off and a new entrance was created.
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Post by bfoley82 on Aug 10, 2019 11:07:52 GMT -5
The DDC in Providence, now owned by a state agency, continues to lose money every year. It in no way will ever be able to pay for itself (purchase by state and renovation) . It is not much different than other similar facilities as spending $100M of public money on sporting and entertainment venues rarely makes financial sense. In addition to ticket revenue, PC makes substantial money off the sale of seat licenses. Season ticket holders must first pay this additional fee in order for the right to purchase tickets in much of the arena's prime sections. The school keeps 100% of the revenue from this source. PC however wants more flexibility on arena dates and likely wants a cut of concession, suites, and parking. A struggling arena is not going to be open to that. PC's rent is all it has ever paid for the arena. This rent didn't even go up all that much after the venue was significantly upgraded in a 2008 renovation PC heavily lobbied for. The chairman of the RI Convention Center Authority board (David Duffy) that pushed and sold the state purchase and renovation was none other than a PC alumnus, former BOT member, and partner in the longtime Duffy and Shanley marketing firm (PC president Father Shanley's father was the other principal partner) for the original Big East. His vice chairman at the authority was the former PC head coach, AD, and founder of the Big East - Dave Gavitt. They successfully got the state to 100% finance their $100M plan with no outside private investment. The DDC was a stark contrast to the more recent proposed Pawsox stadium in Pawtucket where the state was very begrudgingly only willing to invest $23M.
While the DDC continues to struggle, PC is doing very well. Never having had to invest a single penny in a big ticket arena, it has been able to spend on many other capital projects on its campus. It has built a new $30M practice facility dedicated just to men's basketball program. The Schneider Arena hockey venue recently underwent major upgrades and a new soccer facility was built. Several new academic buildings have gone up and a road that once bisected the campus was closed off and a new entrance was created.
PC’s soccer and lax facility was funded by an alumnus though.
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Post by rf1 on Aug 10, 2019 12:26:33 GMT -5
The DDC in Providence, now owned by a state agency, continues to lose money every year. It in no way will ever be able to pay for itself (purchase by state and renovation) . It is not much different than other similar facilities as spending $100M of public money on sporting and entertainment venues rarely makes financial sense. In addition to ticket revenue, PC makes substantial money off the sale of seat licenses. Season ticket holders must first pay this additional fee in order for the right to purchase tickets in much of the arena's prime sections. The school keeps 100% of the revenue from this source. PC however wants more flexibility on arena dates and likely wants a cut of concession, suites, and parking. A struggling arena is not going to be open to that. PC's rent is all it has ever paid for the arena. This rent didn't even go up all that much after the venue was significantly upgraded in a 2008 renovation PC heavily lobbied for. The chairman of the RI Convention Center Authority board (David Duffy) that pushed and sold the state purchase and renovation was none other than a PC alumnus, former BOT member, and partner in the longtime Duffy and Shanley marketing firm (PC president Father Shanley's father was the other principal partner) for the original Big East. His vice chairman at the authority was the former PC head coach, AD, and founder of the Big East - Dave Gavitt. They successfully got the state to 100% finance their $100M plan with no outside private investment. The DDC was a stark contrast to the more recent proposed Pawsox stadium in Pawtucket where the state was very begrudgingly only willing to invest $23M.
While the DDC continues to struggle, PC is doing very well. Never having had to invest a single penny in a big ticket arena, it has been able to spend on many other capital projects on its campus. It has built a new $30M practice facility dedicated just to men's basketball program. The Schneider Arena hockey venue recently underwent major upgrades and a new soccer facility was built. Several new academic buildings have gone up and a road that once bisected the campus was closed off and a new entrance was created.
PC’s soccer and lax facility was funded by an alumnus though.
Plenty of money available from alumni and other sources for things when you don't have to tap them for a $100M arena.
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Post by bfoley82 on Aug 10, 2019 12:47:40 GMT -5
Funny thing about the new Big East is the fact basically everyone plays off campus or have games at the Bug arena (St John’s and Villanova).
I know Butler and Xavier both play on campus but Creighton, Providence, Georgetown, Marquette, DePaul and Seton Hall all play in large off campus arenas.
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Post by rf1 on Aug 10, 2019 15:01:39 GMT -5
Funny thing about the new Big East is the fact basically everyone plays off campus or have games at the Bug arena (St John’s and Villanova). I know Butler and Xavier both play on campus but Creighton, Providence, Georgetown, Marquette, DePaul and Seton Hall all play in large off campus arenas.
Unlike the others Depaul contributed tens of millions to the construction of the public arena it plays in.
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