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Post by hc87 on Jul 25, 2019 15:21:33 GMT -5
Not even in the same ballpark...we were nationally relevant in basketball for living alums/locals in the 1950s to about 1980...and we all know what happened then. Point being, Holy Cross is really the only school in the PL that has had a fandom for basketball that transcends decades and was once somewhat substantial. That we aren't considered the premiere job/program in the PL given our lineage plus today's support in terms of $$$, facilities,institutional support, still rabid (though smaller) fanbase etc compared to other PL basketball schools is in my very humble happen, sad.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 25, 2019 15:31:24 GMT -5
Coaches voted None of the head coaches, except maybe O’Hanlon, remembers Certainly not any assistant To them history is mostly what they saw. Based on that we were fortunate to be second. The RW years helped the rank.
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Post by bison137 on Jul 25, 2019 16:07:17 GMT -5
Coaches voted None of the head coaches, except maybe O’Hanlon, remembers Certainly not any assistant To them history is mostly what they saw. Based on that we were fortunate to be second. The RW years helped the rank. I think there are a few more coaches than just O'Hanlon who would remember. For example, Nathan Davis coached in the PL continuously from 1998 to 2009. And when Goodman's survey was done, Bucknell had an assistant - John Griffin - who played in the PL from 2004 through 2008 and faced HC 11 times. Also Brett Reed has been at Lehigh continuously since 2002. And Army's Jimmy Allen coached in the PL from 1996 to 2002 and then again from 2010 to present. Finally Emmett Davis, who is a Navy assistant, coached in the PL from 1997 through 2011 and then from 2015 to present. Not sure whether American's Eddie Jackson, who is in his 12th season at American, would count.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 25, 2019 16:13:59 GMT -5
My post was referring to HC87’s post that focused on HC hoops in the 60s, 70s and 80s
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Post by bison137 on Jul 25, 2019 16:58:15 GMT -5
My post was referring to HC87’s post that focused on HC hoops in the 60s, 70s and 80s But why should anything that happened in the 60's, 70's, or 80's have any effect on how a coach voted in this poll? They were asked to judge how good a job is in 2019 - and the HC landscape is totally different than it was in 1979.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 25, 2019 17:03:26 GMT -5
The category in reference in this segment is History/Tradition. As I wrote, this period, 60s to 80s, is what HC87 spoke of. I believe that is history that most coaches did not see. Agree ?
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jul 29, 2019 9:03:41 GMT -5
Coaches voted None of the head coaches, except maybe O’Hanlon, remembers Certainly not any assistant To them history is mostly what they saw. Based on that we were fortunate to be second. The RW years helped the rank. Good point. And if the coaches think this way, imagine what prospective students/athletes will think.
Yogi Berra was an all-time great, but he's not helping the Yankees make the postseason now. Even if athletes remember or acknowledge the HC pedigree, it doesn't put the ball in the hoop in 2019.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 29, 2019 11:47:16 GMT -5
/\ Not much of a memory left of that 1950-1980 period among active coaches (and I am sure the recruited kids would have to be told by their grandparents that we once got some national press). (Of course the Yanks still have superstars, etc that continue the winning tradition.)
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jul 29, 2019 13:03:36 GMT -5
/\ Not much of a memory left of that 1950-1980 period among active coaches (and I am sure the recruited kids would have to be told by their grandparents that we once got some national press). (Of course the Yanks still have superstars, etc that continue the winning tradition.) Ahh so you see with my Yankees reference, it's not enough to have done it once before, many times before, many decades ago... but you have to continue to invest, coach, develop, recruit, and win. It's a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately operation, college sports.
Laurels are just ugly head adornments for old Romans, and make bad things to rest on.
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Post by cmo on Aug 9, 2019 13:25:28 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Aug 9, 2019 13:27:23 GMT -5
HC—215 Bucknell—165 Boston U—189
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Post by possum on Aug 9, 2019 13:39:45 GMT -5
If Grandison is not on this years team this ranking may be a bit high.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 9, 2019 13:58:00 GMT -5
The rank is based on the last 22 years
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Post by possum on Aug 9, 2019 14:06:39 GMT -5
Thanks for clarifying I didn't read the article thought he was talking about upcoming year.
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Post by cmo on Aug 9, 2019 14:34:22 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Aug 9, 2019 20:31:30 GMT -5
If one looks back over the past 22 years, there is no surprise with the ranking of most attractive programs for coaches. Wasn't RW unhappy with the direction of the program and chose to leave? That is not the reason RW left
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Post by ts1970 on Aug 9, 2019 20:44:44 GMT -5
If one looks back over the past 22 years, there is no surprise with the ranking of most attractive programs for coaches. Wasn't RW unhappy with the direction of the program and chose to leave? That is not the reason RW left Why did he leave..?.......his age, too many long bus rides, illness, or to help out his friend, Mr. Pitino?
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Post by hchoops on Aug 9, 2019 20:46:29 GMT -5
$$$$$$$$$
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Post by hchoops on Aug 9, 2019 21:01:32 GMT -5
If Slick Rick has not offered him a bundle, he would have stayed
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Post by possum on Aug 9, 2019 22:16:53 GMT -5
RW had a blind spot when it came to the sleazy snake oil salesman Pitino. If you go by Brooks credo that you're judged by the company you keep its not a good look for RW.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 10, 2019 13:02:59 GMT -5
That is not the reason RW left Why did he leave..?.......his age, too many long bus rides, illness, or to help out his friend, Mr. Pitino? Because he thought the program was in good shape to continue without him (picked to win the PL the next year, had the Rookie of the Year in his final year), and to help his friend. Really a very simple answer. As soon as he started to see it blow up due to poor decisions made after he left, he tried to come back after Kearney was fired but was shut down by McFarland, who did not want RW back because he was weak and afraid of how much power RW had when he was at HC.
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Post by hceconhist on Aug 11, 2019 12:14:25 GMT -5
If one looks back over the past 22 years, there is no surprise with the ranking of most attractive programs for coaches. Wasn't RW unhappy with the direction of the program and chose to leave? That is not the reason RW left He left for several reasons, including the direction of the program. He said the program hit a "self-imposed ceiling" under his watch. Namely, he no longer had his scholarship advantage, and the school did not invest more in the program. Moreover, RW's two successors coached against - literally - NBA talent. If RW stayed, we may not have gone 5-9 in PL play the next year, but HC's days of dominating the PL were likely over regardless. He was thinking of leaving beforehand, and Pitino's situation was the perfect way to leave.
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Post by hceconhist on Aug 11, 2019 12:22:32 GMT -5
Why did he leave..?.......his age, too many long bus rides, illness, or to help out his friend, Mr. Pitino? Because he thought the program was in good shape to continue without him (picked to win the PL the next year, had the Rookie of the Year in his final year), and to help his friend. Really a very simple answer. As soon as he started to see it blow up due to poor decisions made after he left, he tried to come back after Kearney was fired but was shut down by McFarland, who did not want RW back because he was weak and afraid of how much power RW had when he was at HC. He left late in the offseason without a trace of a succession plan in place. Moreover, although the 2008-2009 team peaked at the right time, they immediately lost many of their leaders (e.g., Doherty, Cunninham, and Vanderbaan), and many of the remaining players were recruited and coached for specific roles envisioned by RW. Dick Regan then hired a successor with a completely different system in mind. I'm not sure how RW could have thought he was leaving the program in good shape. Don't get me wrong: RW leveraged enviable resources (i.e., scholarships!) to lead HCMBB to a good place. But, the way he left IS a part of his legacy.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 11, 2019 12:32:37 GMT -5
That is not the reason RW left He left for several reasons, including the direction of the program. He said the program hit a "self-imposed ceiling" under his watch. Namely, he no longer had his scholarship advantage, and the school did not invest more in the program. Moreover, RW's two successors coached against - literally - NBA talent. If RW stayed, we may not have gone 5-9 in PL play the next year, but HC's days of dominating the PL were likely over regardless. [ This is nonsense. RW was smart enough to put together a defense that would have worked against McCullom and Muscala, just like he put together defenses that worked against Dwayne Wade, Tayshaun Prince, Nick Collison, etc.
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Post by hceconhist on Aug 11, 2019 12:42:19 GMT -5
He left for several reasons, including the direction of the program. He said the program hit a "self-imposed ceiling" under his watch. Namely, he no longer had his scholarship advantage, and the school did not invest more in the program. Moreover, RW's two successors coached against - literally - NBA talent. If RW stayed, we may not have gone 5-9 in PL play the next year, but HC's days of dominating the PL were likely over regardless. [ This is nonsense. RW was smart enough to put together a defense that would have worked against McCullom and Muscala, just like he put together defenses that worked against Dwayne Wade, Tayshaun Prince, Nick Collison, etc. Sure, maybe RW's defensive schemes could have prevented the blowouts (especially at Sojka in 2012 and 2013), but that does not give you the offense needed to win; the talents of Thomas and Simmons were never replaced. It's also worth noting that HC failed to win any of the games you referenced.
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