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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 11, 2019 14:37:38 GMT -5
The foundation for defense and rebounding rests on toughness, desire, and commitment on every possession - players can bring those qualities to every game, whether shots are falling or not. Holy Cross needs to become a team defined again by those qualities - so long absent - if it is to consistently compete for championships.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 11, 2019 22:31:05 GMT -5
That is not the reason RW left He left for several reasons, including the direction of the program. He said the program hit a "self-imposed ceiling" under his watch. Namely, he no longer had his scholarship advantage, and the school did not invest more in the program. Moreover, RW's two successors coached against - literally - NBA talent. If RW stayed, we may not have gone 5-9 in PL play the next year, but HC's days of dominating the PL were likely over regardless. He was thinking of leaving beforehand, and Pitino's situation was the perfect way to leave. Source of your info ?
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Post by classof83 on Aug 12, 2019 8:38:39 GMT -5
Just conjecture on my part, but I always thought the real reason RW left because he thought it was his chance to compete for a national championship. I always thought RW believed that Pitino was going to need to take a long leave of absence or maybe even be gone the the whole season and RW was going going to get handed a team full of blue chip players. He wanted to see what he could do if he could coach really good players.
I am sure Pitino was willing to pay him a lot of money because he felt that he could trust RW to hold his spot. If RW was successful leading the team there would have been a lot of big time programs willing to give him another chance.
If it was just the money, I am sure Pitino would have offered him a job years before and paid Ralph handsomely.
As I wrote - just a guess on my part.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 12, 2019 8:46:07 GMT -5
Just conjecture on my part, but I always thought the real reason RW left because he thought it was his chance to compete for a national championship. I always thought RW believed that Pitino was going to need to take a long leave of absence or maybe even be gone the the whole season and RW was going going to get handed a team full of blue chip players. He wanted to see what he could do if he could coach really good players. I am sure Pitino was willing to pay him a lot of money because he felt that he could trust RW to hold his spot. If RW was successful leading the team there would have been a lot of big time programs willing to give him another chance. If it was just the money, I am sure Pitino would have offered him a job years before and paid Ralph handsomely. As I wrote - just a guess on my part. Thanks. my question was directed at hcsconhist’s post
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Post by hceconhist on Aug 12, 2019 9:00:56 GMT -5
He left for several reasons, including the direction of the program. He said the program hit a "self-imposed ceiling" under his watch. Namely, he no longer had his scholarship advantage, and the school did not invest more in the program. Moreover, RW's two successors coached against - literally - NBA talent. If RW stayed, we may not have gone 5-9 in PL play the next year, but HC's days of dominating the PL were likely over regardless. He was thinking of leaving beforehand, and Pitino's situation was the perfect way to leave. Source of your info ? I was at Mt. St. James at the time and close to several people involved in the program. The quote was something I remembered from his now-defunct website.
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Post by Tom on Aug 12, 2019 9:53:44 GMT -5
hc Admittedly, you may be correct. However, 3 out of 4 ain't bad! In my opinion the fact that the other 3 coaches were fired substantially if not entirely supports the 215 ranking on the list of attractive coaching positions. Most important I think my overall analysis is valid despite the quite minor possible error in regard to RW. I take it that you do basically agree with my opinion. Question: Was RW satisfied with the institutional support from HC? Did he leave a happy camper? I truly do not know. Please discuss what you can, obviously without violating any confidences. LoveHC While I might not agree with some of the editorial aspects of posts, I think we can say with some certainty that Coach Willard would have liked more support from the school, we was not a terribly unhappy camper when he left. It is considered fact that once it was apparent that Pitino was not looking at lengthy leave of absence because of his legal problems and the HC job miraculously opened up after one year, Coach Willard contacted HC about returning. He couldn't have been too unhappy a camper if he was willing to come back
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Post by Tom on Aug 12, 2019 10:22:19 GMT -5
That is not the reason RW left He left for several reasons, including the direction of the program. He said the program hit a "self-imposed ceiling" under his watch. Namely, he no longer had his scholarship advantage, and the school did not invest more in the program. Moreover, RW's two successors coached against - literally - NBA talent. If RW stayed, we may not have gone 5-9 in PL play the next year, but HC's days of dominating the PL were likely over regardless. He was thinking of leaving beforehand, and Pitino's situation was the perfect way to leave. I do not think that Lehigh and Bucknell's incoming freshmen had anything to do with Coach Willard's decision to leave. HC's days of dominating might have been over, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have been in the hunt
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Post by hceconhist on Aug 12, 2019 12:56:58 GMT -5
He left for several reasons, including the direction of the program. He said the program hit a "self-imposed ceiling" under his watch. Namely, he no longer had his scholarship advantage, and the school did not invest more in the program. Moreover, RW's two successors coached against - literally - NBA talent. If RW stayed, we may not have gone 5-9 in PL play the next year, but HC's days of dominating the PL were likely over regardless. He was thinking of leaving beforehand, and Pitino's situation was the perfect way to leave. I do not think that Lehigh and Bucknell's incoming freshmen had anything to do with Coach Willard's decision to leave. HC's days of dominating might have been over, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have been in the hunt The point of referencing them was to underscore that HC's talent advantage was disappearing rapidly, not that CJ himself scared RW out of the PL. I 100% agree HC could have been in the hunt. Fran O'Hanlon proved that you did not need NBA talent to compete with Bucknell and Lehigh during that special time in the PL. My point was that RW knew the program peaked under his watch - absent any additional new support (e.g., an area-style gymnasium, a conference change, and/or a relaxing in admissions standards).
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Post by bison137 on Aug 12, 2019 13:51:02 GMT -5
I do not think that Lehigh and Bucknell's incoming freshmen had anything to do with Coach Willard's decision to leave. HC's days of dominating might have been over, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have been in the hunt The point of referencing them was to underscore that HC's talent advantage was disappearing rapidly, not that CJ himself scared RW out of the PL. I 100% agree HC could have been in the hunt. Fran O'Hanlon proved that you did not need NBA talent to compete with Bucknell and Lehigh during that special time in the PL. My point was that RW knew the program peaked under his watch - absent any additional new support (e.g., an area-style gymnasium, a conference change, and/or a relaxing in admissions standards). If anything, Lafayette may have proven the reverse during the last part of RW's tenure. In the final five years he was at HC, Lafayette went 23-47 in PL regular season games. And they lost all five first round tournament games, falling by an average margin of 21 points. In total, LC has had two winning PL seasons in the past 15 years. Not sure why the HC program had necessarily peaked by 2009. All of their PL opposition has about the same admissions standards and all play in the same conference. And only two schools have nice arenas.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 12, 2019 15:40:19 GMT -5
This is all ancient history. We have begun a new era with Brett Nelson as head coach. Let's see what he and his players can do
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Post by bison137 on Aug 12, 2019 17:28:06 GMT -5
If anything, Lafayette may have proven the reverse during the last part of RW's tenure. In the final five years he was at HC, Lafayette went 23-47 in PL regular season games. And they lost all five first round tournament games, falling by an average margin of 21 points. In total, LC has had two winning PL seasons in the past 15 years. Not sure why the HC program had necessarily peaked by 2009. All of their PL opposition has about the same admissions standards and all play in the same conference. And only two schools have nice arenas. Which two schools have nice arenas? Navy and...? The West Point arena is quite nice, no? Bucknell looks pretty good, too. For me, Bucknell and then Navy. Army's arena is big but somewhat sterile and always being empty doesn't help.
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Post by hceconhist on Aug 12, 2019 19:43:31 GMT -5
The point of referencing them was to underscore that HC's talent advantage was disappearing rapidly, not that CJ himself scared RW out of the PL. I 100% agree HC could have been in the hunt. Fran O'Hanlon proved that you did not need NBA talent to compete with Bucknell and Lehigh during that special time in the PL. My point was that RW knew the program peaked under his watch - absent any additional new support (e.g., an area-style gymnasium, a conference change, and/or a relaxing in admissions standards). If anything, Lafayette may have proven the reverse during the last part of RW's tenure. In the final five years he was at HC, Lafayette went 23-47 in PL regular season games. And they lost all five first round tournament games, falling by an average margin of 21 points. In total, LC has had two winning PL seasons in the past 15 years. Not sure why the HC program had necessarily peaked by 2009. All of their PL opposition has about the same admissions standards and all play in the same conference. And only two schools have nice arenas. What was Lafayette's scholarship situation? Were they one of the first or last in the PL to scholarship up? Just curious. The facilities topic is interesting. While HC's arena is in the top half, its pre-Luth facilities were among the worst in the PL - I'd argue. The coaches I talked to seemed to think that the general facilities are more important to recruits than the gym itself, which certainly worked against RW, SK, and MB.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 12, 2019 20:22:33 GMT -5
Lafayette was the last to implement a full 12 scholarships. I dont believe they were full strength in that department until at least 2007.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Aug 13, 2019 7:49:44 GMT -5
I don't think Lafayette had a full roster of scholarship players until 2009-10, but 137 probably is the best source for that info.
With a full contingent of schollies, Lafayette has been fifty games under .500, and lost 20+ in five of the last six seasons. O'Hanlon has been an offensively-minded savant, whose single focus on shooting the ball - with utter disregard for defense and rebounding - has proven to be a fundamentally flawed approach.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Aug 13, 2019 8:57:33 GMT -5
And Fran O still managed to go --
2-1 vs. FCSK 9-4 vs. FCMB 4-5 vs. FCBC
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Post by rickii on Aug 13, 2019 9:18:51 GMT -5
Which two schools have nice arenas? Navy and...? The West Point arena is quite nice, no? Bucknell looks pretty good, too. For me, Bucknell and then Navy. Army's arena is big but somewhat sterile and always being empty doesn't help. If we're just talking buildings, both Navy and Bucknell are way ahead with Navy's arena ranked #1 IMO.
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