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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 5, 2019 11:51:21 GMT -5
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Post by matunuck on Sept 5, 2019 11:59:26 GMT -5
Believe we've dropped 40 spots in just two years.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 5, 2019 12:05:32 GMT -5
"And I'm FREEEEEEEEEEEE......
...........
....
FREE-FALLL-INnnnnnnnnnnnnnn."
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 5, 2019 12:12:44 GMT -5
But we have a new dog on campus, Gracie, to help students who are feeling stressed.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Sept 5, 2019 12:36:49 GMT -5
I think we actually got 5 points for the dog.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 5, 2019 12:47:43 GMT -5
I'm not going to lie - I thought the comfort dog for stressed out college kids was a parody/goof...but I found this on HC Instagram:
Gracie, a four-month-old goldendoodle, joins our community as a comfort dog. Her job will be to build relationships with the Holy Cross community and to assist Public Safety in helping students who are feeling stress or anxiety and may find comfort in the presence of a dog.
I saw a picture of a comfort mini-horse on an airplane yesterday, I think that would be a super idea to comfort the stressed out college kids. Maybe that is 10 points in some rankings system somewhere
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 5, 2019 23:25:49 GMT -5
That comfort horse stressed out a lot of unsuspecting passengers who didn't know they would be flying in a barn.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 6, 2019 5:23:31 GMT -5
Before making light of the 'comfort dog',......... About a quarter of the Worcester enrollment sought mental health counseling the past school year. The college was hiring more mental health professionals (psychologists, psychiatrists) to meet the demand. The great majority of those seeking counseling were female students. Mental health professionals have told the college that more male students should be seeking such help, but male students apparently think getting such help is not very macho. This was said in the context of the college's alcohol problem. One could surmise that male students are trying to drink away their stress. The college concedes that excessive consumption of alcohol is a serious problem on campus, and this has led to many of the instances of sexual assault. The rise in demand for counseling is not unique to Holy Cross. See an in-depth article in the Bowdoin student newspaper of two years ago. bowdoinorient.com/2017/05/05/counseling-service-grapples-with-increased-demand/See MIT: medical.mit.edu/services/mental-health-counseling
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Post by crossbball13 on Sept 6, 2019 6:04:14 GMT -5
Would love to know how the “$66k 10 years after college salary” number is arrived at. Simply no way that’s accurate.
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Post by alum on Sept 6, 2019 6:43:44 GMT -5
I haven't read the article because it is behind a pay wall, but... 1. I am not buying the $61,000 number. See here news.holycross.edu/blog/2018/10/11/holy-cross-among-the-best-liberal-arts-colleges-for-salary-potential-according-to-payscale/2. Sometimes these comparisons only include students with only a bachelor's degree which excludes large swaths of HC students. 3. There is nothing wrong with HC if a lot of graduates go into lower paying non profit or government work. 4. College campuses everywhere are overrrun by dogs (and other animals.) It is almost as if the colleges have given up on trying to keep them out. My son who just graduated from St. Mike's had several friends with dogs on campus--some authorized as emotional support animals via a note from a doctor and some just living there with residence life staff simply ignoring them. I am not sure that I think it is a good idea, but as BB would say, "It is what it is.' So, if HC is employing a dog, that seems like a pretty OK thing to me.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 6, 2019 7:21:42 GMT -5
#3 is a strong point. I enjoyed my career in teaching (at several levels) and had the opportunity to publish my work a number of times. After a certain point (being able to pay bills), pay was never a factor. I one time I had a professor who used to rate the opinions of scholars by how much they earned annually. The theories of those getting lower pay were dismissed out of hand. I asked about the value of research done by clergy and he literally laughed. Perhaps such a mindset is being used in this rank.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 6, 2019 8:44:03 GMT -5
About time my basset hound started earning his keep if they have the mindset to expand the "staff".
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Post by matunuck on Sept 6, 2019 9:14:33 GMT -5
Back to the topic of the thread. I would like to hear an explanation from HC admin on these numbers -- #563 in engagement and #611 in environment. The engagement one is particularly odd to me.
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Post by HC16 on Sept 6, 2019 9:41:10 GMT -5
Back to the topic of the thread. I would like to hear an explanation from HC admin on these numbers -- #563 in engagement and #611 in environment. The engagement one is particularly odd to me. I'd like an explanation from the WSJ on how they derived those metrics. The engagement number seems particularly dubious to me.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 6, 2019 9:42:42 GMT -5
Students responses to a survey??
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 6, 2019 12:27:27 GMT -5
The metrics are here. www.timeshighereducation.com/USmethodology2019If queried, state you are in high school, looking at colleges. There is much reliance on a student survey. There is no n value provided for the number of students responding. Salaries 10 years out for Williams / Amherst are lower than the $60,000 for HC.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 6, 2019 13:13:23 GMT -5
In my experience reading rankings these "metrics" usually are sourced in opinions, with all their preconceptions, biases pro and con, etc. Obviously, school engagement and environment are surveys of student opinions which are subject to many variables. Assigning different values in the form of a % to so called performance indicators is in and of itself an expression of the pollster's opinions. As for rating student outcomes and ranking schools based on income, maybe there is some validity maybe not, but after all it is the WSJ. Why not include a survey of alum happiness with LIFE? The magazines and schools game the system. It's a win-win for the magazines to increase readership, sales and advertising revenues as some breathlessly await and closely examine the rankings. Those schools that successfully play the rankings game come out as winners, too. Who says you can't put lipstick on a pig to make it look pretty? Maybe, HC should have an "Office of Ratings and Rankings Information"(OORRI) in addition to its PR Office and the OORRI would solely be dedicated to the creation and development of strategies to review and promote "informational guidance" and spin to the various rankings outlets to help game the system. LoveHC Addendum: If HC ranked #1, these rankings would be the best thing since chipped beef. If HC ranked #1 , many posters would dismiss the ranking as irrelevant, obscure, misguided, meaningless, or some other way flawed.
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Post by matunuck on Sept 6, 2019 13:18:57 GMT -5
I'm a fan of rankings taken in composite. HC is operating in a very competitive higher-ed environment so when a ranking number comes up that seems way way out of whack I'd like an answer. Seriously, 562 schools have better "engagement" than HC? It does't pass the smell test.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 6, 2019 13:56:04 GMT -5
In my experience reading rankings these "metrics" usually are sourced in opinions, with all their preconceptions, biases pro and con, etc. Obviously, school engagement and environment are surveys of student opinions which are subject to many variables. Assigning different values in the form of a % to so called performance indicators is in and of itself an expression of the pollster's opinions. As for rating student outcomes and ranking schools based on income, maybe there is some validity maybe not, but after all it is the WSJ. Why not include a survey of alum happiness with LIFE? The magazines and schools game the system. It's a win-win for the magazines to increase readership, sales and advertising revenues as some breathlessly await and closely examine the rankings. Those schools that successfully play the rankings game come out as winners, too. Who says you can't put lipstick on a pig to make it look pretty? Maybe, HC should have an "Office of Ratings and Rankings Information"(OORRI) in addition to its PR Office and the OORRI would solely be dedicated to the creation and development of strategies to review and promote "informational guidance" and spin to the various rankings outlets to help game the system. LoveHC Addendum: If HC ranked #1, these rankings would be the best thing since chipped beef. If HC ranked #1 , many posters would dismiss the ranking as irrelevant, obscure, misguided, meaningless, or some other way flawed. Yes, because the alums/fans who spend time on a Holy Cross message board all hate the school and hope for it to fail.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 6, 2019 14:08:05 GMT -5
Review the various threads on other college rankings: where HC scores very well there will be very few responses. Where HC scores poorly, or falls from year-to-year, the threads go on and on.
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Post by crusader12 on Sept 6, 2019 14:11:36 GMT -5
But we have a new dog on campus, Gracie, to help students who are feeling stressed. So so sad.....This place has become so soft.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 6, 2019 15:26:52 GMT -5
Review the various threads on other college rankings: where HC scores very well there will be very few responses. Where HC scores poorly, or falls from year-to-year, the threads go on and on. Maybe the expectation is we'll do OK and when we don't it generates a bit of interest. Not sure this thread will go on and on regarding this rating. While you are reviewing, see if some of the responses to the various threads on other college rankings are off the topic. Back to Gracie (the HC comfort dog), I was thinking we could set up some sort of a 'comfort petting zoo" featuring Gracie, a (miniature) horse, and a (full-sized) hamster or other small rodent/marsupial. Maybe we could bring back the muppet crusader in conjunction with the petting zoo. Not saying the mascot should be in the petting zoo (but that's a thought), just saying the comfort zoo could provide solace to those scared by the mascot.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 6, 2019 15:48:38 GMT -5
In my experience reading rankings these "metrics" usually are sourced in opinions, with all their preconceptions, biases pro and con, etc. Obviously, school engagement and environment are surveys of student opinions which are subject to many variables. Assigning different values in the form of a % to so called performance indicators is in and of itself an expression of the pollster's opinions. As for rating student outcomes and ranking schools based on income, maybe there is some validity maybe not, but after all it is the WSJ. Why not include a survey of alum happiness with LIFE? The magazines and schools game the system. It's a win-win for the magazines to increase readership, sales and advertising revenues as some breathlessly await and closely examine the rankings. Those schools that successfully play the rankings game come out as winners, too. Who says you can't put lipstick on a pig to make it look pretty? Maybe, HC should have an "Office of Ratings and Rankings Information"(OORRI) in addition to its PR Office and the OORRI would solely be dedicated to the creation and development of strategies to review and promote "informational guidance" and spin to the various rankings outlets to help game the system. LoveHC Addendum: If HC ranked #1, these rankings would be the best thing since chipped beef. Good point MM. The office could be staffed by Russian Bots...with cloak, but without dagger of course.
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Post by matunuck on Sept 6, 2019 16:01:32 GMT -5
Review the various threads on other college rankings: where HC scores very well there will be very few responses. Where HC scores poorly, or falls from year-to-year, the threads go on and on. This is about understanding why HC was ranked so low in those particular categories. I believe they are way off and the school shouldn't just roll over. It should push back even if just behind the scenes with WSJ folks. I'm sure at least one HC admin person can spare the time to dig into it. I want HC to be highly ranked in ALL publications. Not just be a passive little puppy dog.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 6, 2019 16:19:48 GMT -5
I haven't read the article because it is behind a pay wall, but... 1. I am not buying the $61,000 number. See here news.holycross.edu/blog/2018/10/11/holy-cross-among-the-best-liberal-arts-colleges-for-salary-potential-according-to-payscale/2. Sometimes these comparisons only include students with only a bachelor's degree which excludes large swaths of HC students. 3. There is nothing wrong with HC if a lot of graduates go into lower paying non profit or government work. 4. College campuses everywhere are overrrun by dogs (and other animals.) It is almost as if the colleges have given up on trying to keep them out. My son who just graduated from St. Mike's had several friends with dogs on campus--some authorized as emotional support animals via a note from a doctor and some just living there with residence life staff simply ignoring them. I am not sure that I think it is a good idea, but as BB would say, "It is what it is.' So, if HC is employing a dog, that seems like a pretty OK thing to me. It is cold at night up at St. Mike's so what happens when one dog inside the dorm starts barking and they all join in at night when students are trying to sleep or trying to take enough meds for their noses to stop running and their airways open up because they are allergic to dogs? I know HUD enforces tenant's rights to have a service dog for emotional support in multi-family buildings even when dogs are generally not allowed, but I wonder if an 18-22 year old needs emotional support that can not be fulfilled by either the college counseling center or their personal physician/clinician, if the most sensible advice is for the student to commute to a local college and live at home where the emotional support is warm and unconditional. Of course the parents providing that warm and unconditional support might not want to hear that. In all seriousness, I would hope bringing a personal emotional support dog into a group dorm would be considered only after counseling failed to help the young adult feel secure. Apparently students are welcoming of other student's dogs. I don't think I would be but maybe I wouldn't say anything so as to go along to get along in the group dynamic.
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