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Post by hcpride on Oct 4, 2019 18:42:09 GMT -5
In my ancient HS days VU was viewed by classmates as slightly below a safety pick, known as a local Philly "jock school" and I am so happy to read about the advances VU has made to join the elite forefront of American higher education financially, athletically and academically. Perhaps the Catholic forefront but it is funny how schools move in different directions over time. One of my Boston friends at HC in the early 80's told me his dog could get into Northeastern and BU and his 'slow' sister was rejected at HC and attending BC. Heck, there was a time folks thought Fordham's neighborhood was a shooting gallery and were afraid to take a campus tour - much less attend. Probably a few fossils still think so. And here in New York delusional parents still think junior can skate on into Stony Brook like they could in the 80's and study science - not knowing the high scores you now need. And Villanova was a safety school in a decaying and slum-ridden city as far as some Holy Cross/Georgetown bound folks were once concerned. Boy, things have changed!
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 4, 2019 18:47:54 GMT -5
Okay, got it
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Post by bison137 on Oct 4, 2019 19:58:34 GMT -5
In my ancient HS days VU was viewed by classmates as slightly below a safety pick, known as a local Philly "jock school" and I am so happy to read about the advances VU has made to join the elite forefront of American higher education financially, athletically and academically. . And Villanova was a safety school in a decaying and slum-ridden city as far as some Holy Cross/Georgetown bound folks were once concerned. Boy, things have changed! When was Radnor Township "decaying and slum-ridden"??
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Post by hcpride on Oct 5, 2019 3:41:04 GMT -5
18 hours ago mm67 said: In my ancient HS days VU was viewed by classmates as slightly below a safety pick, known as a local Philly "jock school" …. . And Villanova was a safety school in a decaying and slum-ridden city as far as some Holy Cross/Georgetown bound folks were once concerned. Boy, things have changed! When was Radnor Township "decaying and slum-ridden"?? LOL . (Not saying this was [or was not] a correct perception of Philly in the 70's and 80's, not saying it was a correct perception that Villanova University is located in Philly proper, etc.)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 9, 2019 14:13:04 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 9, 2019 17:45:53 GMT -5
Trendy location for students, safe location for parents, Big East and CAA membership. Sports have made their school a known, positive brand amongst ESPN viewers and many other Americans. A tip of the cap to them, what else can you say?
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Post by hcpride on Oct 10, 2019 5:02:36 GMT -5
/\ /\ Yes. Plus curriculum (business school, engineering, liberal arts, nursing, etc. etc.) seems to be a strength - especially nowadays - for the Catholic school. (In additon to PP's good points about growth in residence halls ( here) the last 50 years and and ease of access - via two on-campus rail lines - for the kids to hit the Main Line and easily zip to Philly.)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 10, 2019 6:00:55 GMT -5
Decades ago, when I attended high school on the Main Line (so named for the Main Line of the Pennsylvania Railroad between Philadelphia and the West) St. Joe's stood head and shoulders above Villanova when it came to academic reputation and competitiveness. LaSalle was a distant third, and not even considered if one lived in the suburbs. St. Joe's, Villanova, and LaSalle were 'blessed' enrollment-wise, as they weren't competing against a state university campus in or near Philadelphia. The closest is Cheyney, a historically black school, and apparently closing soon. There is a 50 year old campus of PSU at Brandywine, southwest of Philadelphia, but its a small school. ________________________ A case study of imploding demographics in the Northeast. Fourteen public universities in this Pennsylvania state system (separate from PSU). Enrollment has fallen 20 percent between 2010 and fall, 2019. Cheyney's enrollment is down to 618 students. triblive.com/news/pennsylvania/enrollment-declines-continue-at-pennsylvania-state-system-universities/
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Post by hcpride on Oct 10, 2019 6:18:37 GMT -5
Decades ago, when I attended high school on the Main Line (so named for the Main Line of the Pennsylvania Railroad between Philadelphia and the West) St. Joe's stood head and shoulders above Villanova when it came to academic reputation and competitiveness. LaSalle was a distant third, and not even considered if one lived in the suburbs. Even further back than that (1920's), I had several NYC great-uncles who headed to Villanova's engineering program (not sure how that compared to St. Joe's or LaSalle's engineering ) and apparently rode that extensive alumni network to great success in NYC's civil engineering department. Much more recently (over the last 15-20 years) I've had many nephews at The Prep (as they call it) and certainly know the relative academic reputation and competitiveness of the three in the later parts of the last century and this century.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 10, 2019 7:35:28 GMT -5
Not sure of what school is being referenced as "The Prep." But my late father graduated from Brooklyn Prep (as did our most prolific poster here) and that was always called "The Prep." Had a Holy Cross classmate who went to Fordham Prep and he had the temerity to call that high school "The Prep." My Fairfield alum son had lots of friends there who were graduates of St. Joe's Prep in Philly and they called their school "The Prep." I guess that is like calling it " The Ohio State University." Just makes a place sound special? One of a kind. When I went to school, we just called it Holy Cross College and the decals all were "HCC." At least we don't emphasize the first article of The College of the Holy Cross to make it posher than we already know it is.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 10, 2019 7:38:52 GMT -5
Not sure of what school is being referenced as "The Prep." But my late father graduated from Brooklyn Prep (as did our most prolific poster here) and that was always called "The Prep." Had a Holy Cross classmate who went to Fordham Prep and he had the temerity to call that high school "The Prep." My Fairfield alum son had lots of friends there who were graduates of St. Joe's Prep in Philly and they called their school "The Prep." At least we don't emphasize the first article of The College of the Holy Cross to make it posher than we already know it is. Bingo. That would be the Philadelphia school in question. Don't think the others are in Philly.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 10, 2019 7:43:11 GMT -5
Now, I understand the weird obsession with Villanova. Maybe, it's time to get over it. hcpride, the irony. LoveHC sader1970 loves it when I mention the V word. PP seems to be the resident Villanova expert. Between the Ivy Envy and the BC Longings and Big East misfires, we see a lot of obsessions here. And some folks have a love obsession....
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 10, 2019 8:50:00 GMT -5
Maybe we should start a separate, permanent thread on Villanova where its fans could wax eloquent on its history, athletics, academic standing, new buildings, mass transit, etc?
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 10, 2019 9:02:55 GMT -5
I still recall Time Magazine, in a summary of Catholic colleges in the late 1960s (which stressed academics), referring to Villanova as "a track and field power run by the Augustinians" In that regard, times have indeed changed. Could athletic success in hoops and the accompanying notoriety have caused an increase in applications along giving Villanova the ability to be more selective? I know that point has been debunked by some on Crossports, but in this case anecdotally it appears to be a valid point.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 10, 2019 9:36:00 GMT -5
Thanks. My ability to pinpoint dates grows more vague as time passes. But, I never forgot that quote about Villanova.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 11, 2019 6:18:52 GMT -5
When I was first considering grad school for my masters's in education I checked out Villanova. Back then, the word from relatives in Philly was that the area around/near the campus was dangerous. There were many cases of people preying on students (some violent). Of course, the area and the city can have changed greatly in almost half a century, but that was the reputation of the area around Villanova at one time, so the idea is not exactly pure fiction.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 11, 2019 6:45:39 GMT -5
When was Radnor Township "decaying and slum-ridden"?? No mention nor implication by me that the neighborhood around VU was decaying or a "slum" whatever that means. Not my words. I trust that no-one would ever knowingly, dishonestly put words in the mouth of a fellow alum. LoveHC I think Bison137 excerpted both of our posts to point out that Villanova is actually in Radnor Township and not in Philadelphia (see Oct 4, 2019 at 8:58pm) as its location is frequently (and incorrectly) shorthanded … you have to look carefully to see which quote is which since he used two different excerpts and the shaded 'bubbles' can be confusing. (Not to mention the fact that my actual post was clearly about past perceptions regarding various colleges and their locales and your use of the term Philly was an innocuous paraphrase of another's view!). I wouldn't sweat it.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 11, 2019 9:55:07 GMT -5
Seems as if the statements regarding the Villanova neighborhood are being made by those who have not spent time in Radnor township or have visited the Villanova campus which is 15 miles west of the city. Having spent time at both HC and Villanova, in the 1970’s, Radnor township was never an issue when I attended regarding safety. On the other hand, you had to be vigilant while on the Penn, Drexel, Temple and LaSalle campuses which were in the city of Philadelphia, and were divided by city streets with heavy traffic. They compare to Northeastern, BU and MIT regarding campuses The major shortcoming that Villanova had was residential facilities, which has now been remedied when they opened a new 225 million housing complex recently. Objectively, the campus is easier to navigate to than the school in Chestnut Hill. Villanova’s campus is strategically planned, with better architecture than BC.
Villanova, Radnor, Rosemount, Bryn Mayr, Abington, St. David’s, Malvern, Ardmore, are similar to Chestnut Hill, Newton, Weston, Needham, Dedham and Wellesley in demographics.
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Post by joutsHC77 on Oct 11, 2019 11:32:34 GMT -5
HC is still in a good position financially. Its long term debt is $159 million. As of June 2018, BC's long term debt was $1.1 billion. So HC's principal and interest payments on the debt are certainly manageable. IMO, the largest problem is the stagnant endowment, which has underperformed generally for years, and is largely flat for the past three. When the endowment is basically giving you a beer budget, your champagne tastes won't be realized. Why doesn’t HC change investment managers if this is the case, poor investment performance?
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Post by bison137 on Oct 11, 2019 11:41:35 GMT -5
When was Radnor Township "decaying and slum-ridden"?? No mention nor implication by me that the neighborhood around VU was decaying or a "slum" whatever that means. Not my words. I trust that no-one would ever knowingly, dishonestly put words in the mouth of a fellow alum. LoveHC If you look back, you will see that quote was from HCPride, not from you. My point was that Villanova is not in, or very near, Philly or any city. On a good day, it is a half hour away from Philly.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 11, 2019 15:52:28 GMT -5
Seems as if the statements regarding the Villanova neighborhood are being made by those who have not spent time in Radnor township or have visited the Villanova campus which is 15 miles west of the city. Having spent time at both HC and Villanova, in the 1970’s, Radnor township was never an issue when I attended regarding safety. On the other hand, you had to be vigilant while on the Penn, Drexel, Temple and LaSalle campuses which were in the city of Philadelphia, and were divided by city streets with heavy traffic. They compare to Northeastern, BU and MIT regarding campuses The major shortcoming that Villanova had was residential facilities, which has now been remedied when they opened a new 225 million housing complex recently. Objectively, the campus is easier to navigate to than the school in Chestnut Hill. Villanova’s campus is strategically planned, with better architecture than BC. Villanova, Radnor, Rosemount, Bryn Mayr, Abington, St. David’s, Malvern, Ardmore, are similar to Chestnut Hill, Newton, Weston, Needham, Dedham and Wellesley in demographics. The photos posted of the houses abutting Villanova's campus did make me think of Chestnut Hill, which also has good public transit access on the green line of the MBTA. The WRTA bus that used to stop at O'Kane Hall to transport employees to and from work and any students who wanted to use it no longer stops due to lack of demand. I guess Uber and Lyft have replaced some of that demand.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 11, 2019 16:10:11 GMT -5
Thanks. My ability to pinpoint dates grows more vague as time passes. But, I never forgot that quote about Villanova. That quote about HC being in the "Catholic Ivy League" triggered the memory of two other quotes. First from a student who used to hang with Social activist Father LaBran and his posse of like minded students: "Holy Cross is the center of the New Catholic Left." And secondly one from a friend showing me his new used but glitzy (original) VW Bug Convertible with every option VW offered: "This model is the Cadillac of Volkswagens."
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 11, 2019 16:26:41 GMT -5
I remember hearing a neighbor saying her son had made a mistake in choosing his college. He went to Fordham, but had passed on Holy Cross. She had not liked the description of HC as "wall to wall Irish" and she was not sure her Italian-American son would feel comfortable there. She saw both schools during his 4 years and said she had realized her error.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 11, 2019 16:29:44 GMT -5
There was once, embarrassingly, an “Association of Catholic Ivies” and I recall being invited to a meeting of some kind when I lived in Atlanta (87-93)
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 11, 2019 19:34:30 GMT -5
I had six older male first cousins who graduated from either BC or HC, all sometime in the 1950s. I remember my mother and aunts comparing the two schools. The big difference they found was that BC students dressed up because they traveled to school from different parts of the Boston area and HC students dressed more casually because they lived on campus and didn't have to go out and about in a major metropolitan area. Advantage went to BC to them in that comparison.
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